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Daughter of Dorcas
Outreach is absolutely right!

Tell The Truth

Just because you forgive and let go of your anger does not mean you give the unrepentant abuser the opportunity to victimize you again. I am not sure where you would get the idea that you would. That is absurd, I'm sorry, but it really is. You do not have to engage in a relationship with an unrepentant abuser. I am not sure why you would think I said that. I reread my post and that is not what I said. Anger is not going to undue any of the harm that was done to the former members of TPC. All it does is keep you vested in the pain and anger of what happened, which does nothing more than make the enemy dance with glee that he has kept you from doing God's will.

You are an adult you can do as you choose as can I. Just as I can choose to forgive and let go of my anger without providing the opportunity for those who abused my trust and faith any opportunity to do it again, which is what my Pastor preached in his sermon after I expressed my concern over forgiving those who sinned against the body of TPC and getting a get out of sin free card if I forgave them. My Bible says the battle is the Lords. He is much better than I am at everything, so I will let him fight this battle.

Daughter of Dorcas

DOD I didn't say that you said "you do not have to engage......." I was expressing my views is all. You don't have to accept them or agree with them, nor personalize them. My point was, I stand ready as the Bible instructs with a personal situation in my life. Other situations, I do turn the other cheek. I was offering a different perspective. There isn't just one perspective in the Bible. Nor did I say that YOU said you have to engage in an abusive relationship after forgiveness. I think we have very different thinking processes.

I didn't get that TTT was saying one has to engage with their (an) abuser. When we come to the realization we are being controlled, abused, we have a choice. We can stay in the situation and be distroyed, or we can leave and move on. Either way we do have a responibility to forgive, as Christ has told us. Being human, personally I do find myself battling with truly letting go and letting God. I have experienced abuse in one way or another ALL of my life. I have forgiven each abuser in time, finding forgiveness in myself for my involvement in those situations have been just as hard. The questions; did I do everything I could to stop the abuse? Should I, Could I have spoken out to have gotten out of the situation so they could have been stopped before they hurt another? This kind of unforgiveness can be just as distructive. Second guessing hasn't mended the abuse, but reaching up to God has been my only source of seeing past the abuse and the what if's. He has been so faithful and loving, He has provided for me ways to realize when I am abused, He is/was there, and provides for my injured heart, spirit with scripture and other christains just at the perfect time. (Not my timing, His timing). DQ shared an example.

I have found Spiritual abuse to be the hardest for me to move forward from, I am leery, at every encounter with other christains. I hear the (too good, over the top, special phrases) and I am repulsed. I have to decide at that point to just let it fly over, or should I say something? It has been nearly 3 years since my last experience from TP, I still am not comfortable in these encounters to be able to speak up. I rely totally on God to put the words in at the right time. My confindence will grow in time, that will be as I move past this phase.

When God and the Mayo Clinic agree that forgiveness is the best remedy for your soul and your health then perhaps we need to understand that God not only cares about our spiritual health, but our physical and mental health as well. He wants all of us whole, well, and safe in his loving embrace.


Forgiveness: How to let go of grudges and bitterness
When someone you care about hurts you, you can hold on to anger, resentment and thoughts of revenge or embrace forgiveness and move forward.
By Mayo Clinic staff


Katherine M. Piderman, Ph.D.
(http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/forgiveness/MH0013)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nearly everyone has been hurt by the actions or words of another. Your mother criticized your parenting skills. Your friend gossiped about you. Your partner had an affair. These wounds can leave you with lasting feelings of anger, bitterness and even vengeance.

But when you don't practice forgiveness, you may be the one who pays most dearly. By embracing forgiveness, you embrace peace, hope, gratitude and joy. Here, Katherine M. Piderman, Ph.D., staff chaplain at Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minn., discusses forgiveness and how it can lead you down the path of physical, emotional and spiritual well-being.

What is forgiveness?
There's no one definition of forgiveness. But in general, forgiveness is a decision to let go of resentments and thoughts of revenge. Forgiveness is the act of untying yourself from thoughts and feelings that bind you to the offense committed against you. This can reduce the power these feelings otherwise have over you, so that you can a live freer and happier life in the present. Forgiveness can even lead to feelings of understanding, empathy and compassion for the one who hurt you.

Doesn't forgiving someone mean you're forgetting or condoning what happened?
Absolutely not! Forgiving isn't the same as forgetting what happened to you. The act that hurt or offended you may always remain a part of your life. But forgiveness can lessen its grip on you and help you focus on other, positive parts of your life. Forgiveness also doesn't mean that you deny the other person's responsibility for hurting you, and it doesn't minimize or justify the wrong. You can forgive the person without excusing the act.

What are the benefits of forgiving someone?
Researchers have recently become interested in studying the effects of being unforgiving and being forgiving. Evidence is mounting that holding on to grudges and bitterness results in long-term health problems. Forgiveness, on the other hand, offers numerous benefits, including:

Lower blood pressure
Stress reduction
Less hostility
Better anger management skills
Lower heart rate
Lower risk of alcohol or substance abuse
Fewer depression symptoms
Fewer anxiety symptoms
Reduction in chronic pain
More friendships
Healthier relationships
Greater religious or spiritual well-being
Improved psychological well-being
Why do we hold grudges and become resentful and unforgiving?
The people most likely to hurt us are those closest to us — our partners, friends, siblings and parents. When we're hurt by someone we love and trust — whether it's a lie, betrayal, rejection, abuse or insult — it can be extremely difficult to overcome. And even minor offenses can turn into huge conflicts.

When you experience hurt or harm from someone's actions or words, whether this is intended or not, you may begin experiencing negative feelings such as anger, confusion or sadness, especially when it's someone close to you. These feelings may start out small. But if you don't deal with them quickly, they can grow bigger and more powerful. They may even begin to crowd out positive feelings. Grudges filled with resentment, vengeance and hostility take root when you dwell on hurtful events or situations, replaying them in your mind many times.

Soon, you may find yourself swallowed up by your own bitterness or sense of injustice. You may feel trapped and may not see a way out. It's very hard to let go of grudges at this point and instead you may remain resentful and unforgiving.

How do I know it's time to try to embrace forgiveness?
When we hold on to pain, old grudges, bitterness and even hatred, many areas of our lives can suffer. When we're unforgiving, it's we who pay the price over and over. We may bring our anger and bitterness into every relationship and new experience. Our lives may be so wrapped up in the wrong that we can't enjoy the present. Other signs that it may be time to consider forgiveness include:

Dwelling on the events surrounding the offense
Hearing from others that you have a chip on your shoulder or that you're wallowing in self-pity
Being avoided by family and friends because they don't enjoy being around you
Having angry outbursts at the smallest perceived slights
Often feeling misunderstood
Drinking excessively, smoking or using drugs to try to cope with your pain
Having symptoms of depression or anxiety
Being consumed by a desire for revenge or punishment
Automatically thinking the worst about people or situations
Regretting the loss of a valued relationship
Feeling like your life lacks meaning or purpose
Feeling at odds with your religious or spiritual beliefs
The bottom line is that you may often feel miserable in your current life.

How do I reach a state of forgiveness?
Forgiveness is a commitment to a process of change. It can be difficult and it can take time. Everyone moves toward forgiveness a little differently. One step is to recognize the value of forgiveness and its importance in our lives at a given time. Another is to reflect on the facts of the situation, how we've reacted, and how this combination has affected our lives, our health and our well-being. Then, as we are ready, we can actively choose to forgive the one who has offended us. In this way, we move away from our role as a victim and release the control and power the offending person and situation have had in our lives.

Forgiveness also means that we change old patterns of beliefs and actions that are driven by our bitterness. As we let go of grudges, we'll no longer define our lives by how we've been hurt, and we may even find compassion and understanding.

Forgiveness: How to let go of grudges and bitterness
What happens if I can't forgive someone?
Forgiveness can be very challenging. It may be particularly hard to forgive someone who doesn't admit wrong or doesn't speak of their sorrow. Keep in mind that the key benefits of forgiveness are for you. If you find yourself stuck, it may be helpful to take some time to talk with a person you've found to be wise and compassionate, such as a spiritual leader, a mental health provider or an unbiased family member or friend.

It may also be helpful to reflect on times you've hurt others and on those who have forgiven you. As you recall how you felt, it may help you to understand the position of the person who hurt you. It can also be beneficial to pray, use guided meditation or journal. In any case, if the intention to forgive is present, forgiveness will come in its time.

Does forgiveness guarantee reconciliation?
Not always. In some cases, reconciliation may be impossible because the offender has died. In other cases, reconciliation may not be appropriate, especially if you were attacked or assaulted. But even in those cases, forgiveness is still possible, even if reconciliation isn't.

On the other hand, if the hurtful event involved a family member or friend whose relationship you otherwise value, forgiveness may lead to reconciliation. This may not happen quickly, as you both may need time to re-establish trust. But in the end, your relationship may very well be one that is rich and fulfilling.

What if I have to interact with the person who hurt me but I don't want to?
These situations are difficult. If the hurt involves a family member, it may not always be possible to avoid him or her entirely. You may be invited to the same family holiday gatherings, for instance. If you've reached a state of forgiveness, you may be able to enjoy these gatherings without bringing up the old hurts. If you haven't reached forgiveness, these gatherings may be tense and stressful for everyone, particularly if other family members have chosen sides in the conflict.

So how do you handle this? First, remember that you do have a choice whether to attend or not attend family get-togethers. Respect yourself and do what seems best. If you choose to go, don't be surprised by a certain amount of awkwardness and perhaps even more intense feelings. It's important to keep an eye on those feelings. You don't want them to lead you to be unjust or unkind in return for what was done to you.

Also, avoid drinking too much alcohol as a way to try to numb your feelings or feel better — it'll likely backfire. And keep an open heart and mind. People do change, and perhaps the offender will want to apologize or make amends. You also may find that the gathering helps you to move forward with forgiveness.

How do I know when I've truly forgiven someone?
Forgiveness may result in sincerely spoken words such as "I forgive you" or tender actions that fit the relationship. But more than this, forgiveness brings a kind of peace that helps you go on with life. The offense is no longer front and center in your thoughts or feelings. Your hostility, resentment and misery have made way for compassion, kindness and peace.

Also, remember that forgiveness often isn't a one-time thing. It begins with a decision, but because memories or another set of words or actions may trigger old feelings, you may need to recommit to forgiveness over and over again.

What if the person I'm forgiving doesn't change?
Getting the other person to change their actions, behavior or words isn't the point of forgiveness. In fact, the other person may never change or apologize for the offense. Think of forgiveness more about how it can change your life — by bringing you more peace, happiness, and emotional and spiritual healing.

Forgiveness takes away the power the other person continues to wield in your life. Through forgiveness, you choose to no longer define yourself as a victim. Forgiveness is done primarily for yourself, and less so for the person who wronged you.

What if I'm the one who needs forgiveness?
It may help to spend some time thinking about the offense you've committed and trying to determine the effect it has had on others. Unless it may cause more harm or distress, consider admitting the wrong you've done to those you've harmed, speaking of your sincere sorrow or regret, and specifically asking for forgiveness — without making excuses.

But if this seems unwise because it may further harm or distress, don't do it — it's not about making yourself feel better by apologizing. You don't want to add salt to a painful wound. Also, keep in mind that you can't force someone to forgive you. They will need to move to forgiveness in their own time.

In any case, we have to be willing to forgive ourselves. Holding on to resentment against yourself can be just as toxic as holding on to resentment against someone else. Recognize that poor behavior or mistakes don't make you worthless or bad.

Accept the fact that you — like everyone else — aren't perfect. Accept yourself despite your faults. Admit your mistakes. Commit to treating others with compassion, empathy and respect. And again, talking with a spiritual leader, mental health provider or trusted friend or relative may be helpful.

Forgiveness of yourself or someone else, though not easy, can transform your life. Instead of dwelling on the injustice and revenge, instead of being angry and bitter, you can move toward a life of peace, compassion, mercy, joy and kindness.


Daughter of Dorcas

I hope it does not rain on TPWOC's float in the Marysville parade this weekend! I wonder If TPWOC will get a special parade award this year for best cult church?

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buddy
I hope it does not rain on TPWOC's float in the Marysville parade this weekend! I wonder If TPWOC will get a special parade award this year for best cult church?

According to the KOMO weather forecast, if your on that float you better have an umbrella and dress for rain.

D of D

A brother off course is still a brother. I do not rejoice in the suffering of Mike and Cindy or of Turning point. Scripture tells us we should never rejoice in their suffering. It pains me to see what is happening to our brothers. My heart hurts for their pain much as it hurts when you are child and you see your sibling get punished. My children actually leave the area completely and often cry when their sibling is punsihed or corrected, even when their sibling is corrected on their behalf. My prayer is much like nooneofanyimportance that they would correct themseles before TP is no more. Their distruction hurts the weakest believers the most. We have many young believers that will not benifit from TP distruction but only by the change in course. Tomorrow my heart may be back to feeling no compassion for what they are experiencing but as for today - I have compassion for my brothers and sisters in christ.

DQ

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buddy
I hope it does not rain on TPWOC's float in the Marysville parade this weekend! I wonder If TPWOC will get a special parade award this year for best cult church?

That is very possible Buddy - very possible indeed.

As much as those in this cult are victims of those who run it, I still think that those who will be on this parade float are fully indoctrinated cult members who follow lock step behind Mike and Cyndi. At some point during that indoctrination they became aware of the questions being asked about the doctrine but I think they just didn't care enough to do anything about it nor question it themselves. They are having just too good of a time to be concerned with such mundane things as truth. Out of all the scriptures Mike or Cyndi has mentioned to suport their agenda, do you think that at lease once they would have checked? Every single reference to scripture I have heard them say I have checked! Every one of them was out of text or blatently abused. EVERY ONE. The cult systems thrives on the impressionable youth and now they are like zombies marching to Mike's tune. They need a serious shot to wake them up.
To think of these individuals who are very active in the cult machine as victims is naive IMO. Some are, yes, but those involved in this float are now cogs in the machine and as far as I can see they are fair game. Remember, Mike chose to make them targets, not us. Mike hides behind them, puting them in the line of fire so as to use them as shields. And they will gladdly stand there and take it for Mike. Just like Katie who was thrown under the bus after she tried to recruit more souls for the cult. Mike comes out and says that HE never wanted an active recruiting! So sorry zombie Katie. Just another tool used and thrown away. They are soldiers for Mike and they know it. They have risen up against us just like they were told to do. They are now activists who will stop at nothing to shut us down if they could.
If Mike puts the zombies into the line of fire then so be it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2009 08:02AM by Mville04.

Who is Katie?

Katie is the red haired gal on much of their Bulletin Videos (until Febuary) She is the one who prostylized and emailed the 11 year old from the middled school and started the mess with the school district - The mess that made two newspapers and recently was covered on ch7 about not allowing local churches to prostylize there. She has since fallen off the radar - for obvious reasons.
I would love to hear her story and find out if she was just following instructions on recruiting (I think she was).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2009 12:02PM by Mville04.