tpcwocattender:

Frankly you do seem to be here essentially to defend TPC.

Your rationalizations for not leaving despite the damage you acknowledge the church has done come across weakly.

It seems at best you are so emotionally invested in the group that you cannot and will not let go and move on.

Somehow attributing your intransigence about this to "God" or "God's leading" comes across a bit strange if not excessively self-important.

Maybe God isn't using you, but rather you are being used by TPC.

i say it again..... wolves come in sheeps clothing. the enemy will use anyone to hurt HIS people!

Quote
tpcwocattender
This is regarding the movie incident.

Are we really going to paint an entire church youth program with that broad of a brush, regardless of the church. He didn't yell out "I'm 15, go to church, so you can't tell me what to do!". This is a parental issue. I have witnesses, and have been personally (though it has been a while), disruptive youth and have recognized them as church goes. As a side note the four credos that were listed was from a great series on evangelism. It had nothing to do with being a jerk in public.

I know it sounds like I am defending tpc. I would say I am rejecting implications being made. This type of stuff is what can give this forum a bad name. It also devalues the testimonies of those who were hurt because people lump everything on this forum together.

Whoa, Attender! You painted US with a broad brush, not we the youth program. I could give you a good many more examples of blatant and disturbing arrogance among the youth. These two instances that B2H and LP (myself) have called attention to are cases in point, not isolated instances. Also, who makes up the church? THE PEOPLE--the individual people! Unfortunately the youth are indoctrinated to think of themselves primarily as "world changers," "kingdom carriers," "empowered by the Holy Spirit," etc. That's heady stuff for a teen to be thinking about him/herself (and there is a TP promotional video in which YOUTH are saying these things about themselves, so obviously the points of the evangelism series have been embraced and are being implemented into the thought and culture of the youth program).

Anyway, when I was growing up in church, we learned "this little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine," as opposed to "I'm a world changer, so you'd better get outta my way." Which one would be the biblical approach, Attender? I know young people make mistakes, but an entire group of professing Christian youth in a public place, refusing to respect the people around them by simply doing what one should do in a movie theater (i.e., be quiet) makes me wonder why there wasn't a single conscience among them to stand up and do the right thing. I think there is a serious gap, a disconnect, between all the spiritual hype and emotionalism the kids experience when they're at church, and instruction in the nuts and bolts of the everyday living out of their faith.

PS: And if this is a parenting issue, where are the "spiritual parents" Turning Point provides to ensure all the youth turn out like Mike and Cyndi? Oh! But wait! Sadly, it appears the youth ARE turning out like Mike and Cyndi.



Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2009 12:07AM by LearningPoint.

1 reason not to stay At TPWOC: I did not want my son to be brainwashed through the teaching of Pastor Mikes brainwashed youth leaders and Jeff Moors who is being use My Mike to try and control the young people so Mike can get them to give up there real college careers and attend Soma so he can get there Money and make them into Spiritual slaves .That is why Mike will spend alot of time with them, He will make them think that He and TPWOC is the greastest thing in the world. I like Jeff Moors and alot of the youth leaders and they did teach my son some good stuff, but it is Mike who is using them to teach his false doctrines and turning them into Spiritual slaves through discipleship groups and demanding time serving TPWOC instead of spending time with your real family. You bring your son to youth group and pretty soon he is so involved after afew years that he thinks going to SOMA NW is the only option out there. So they give up there careers to attend a fake soma college with fake soma teachers, then you end up with the blind leading the blind.

Mike grants his authority to these young individuals becasue they have been bought and payed for. He welcomes them in, feeds them with food, espresso and friendships, fill their heads with his view of worship and then sends them out to schools, parks and businesses to promote TP and gather more followers in. The youth at TP are like little tin soldiers he winds up and lets loose. That is a rather simplified verson but basically that is what is happening. They are being used. Is that too harsh? Well, it's just my opinion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2009 12:04AM by Mville04.

Okay folks...lets get back on topic. The youth at the movie theater incident is ridiculous. If this were a "youth sponsored event" then I would say the concerns are legitimate. If this were just a bunch of kids acting...like...kids... Then its a matter of parental involvement.

Personally, I do not hold my church responsible for the behavior of my children. I am the authority that God has placed in their lives. I am the one responsible for teaching them social and civil skills, not my church. Lets not trivialize the very real concerns about Turning Point Church by pointing at a handful of kids...being kids. This is more a reflection on their own immaturity than it is on TPc. Again...if this were a church sponsored outing...with youth leaders in attendance then it is a legit concern. Otherwise...lets get back on topic.

A word for you folks dialogging with TPCattender: It is appropriate to challenge his positions. Lets do so in a loving, respectful manner. Many of us were once in his position. God knows all hearts and all motives. Lets not forget this truth. Pray for TPCattender; pray for me; pray for one another.

I certainly didn't mean to cause a problem. My spouse was present during the incident and was shocked because these youth are seen as youth leaders and other people who witnessed it mentioned the church, not even my spouse. I should have maybe added more, that I've seen and heard what goes on between the youth and I'm not impressed and would never want my children to turn out like that. Yes it is a parenting issue. But if TPC is raising a generation of Kingdom changers and whatnot, wouldn't you think they had told them that they are representatives of Christ in and out of church?



I apologize to everyone for the "interruption". I'll ponder my thoughts more thoroughly before posting next time. Please accept my apology.

Quote
rrmoderator
tpcwocattender:

Frankly you do seem to be here essentially to defend TPC.

Your rationalizations for not leaving despite the damage you acknowledge the church has done come across weakly.

It seems at best you are so emotionally invested in the group that you cannot and will not let go and move on.

Somehow attributing your intransigence about this to "God" or "God's leading" comes across a bit strange if not excessively self-important.

Maybe God isn't using you, but rather you are being used by TPC.

All who have left did so through a process and through prayer. There is no right way, wrong way, too fast, too slow, my way or your way that can be arbitrarily applied to everyone. My reasons are unique to me and my circumstances. The fact that I am staying even though I have admitidly seen things I do not agree with don't make me week or strong. It seems that some are put off by my stance. I understand but would ask for grace on your part while I deal with a very difficult issue and decision.

Quote
tpcwocattender
This is regarding the movie incident.

Are we really going to paint an entire church youth program with that broad of a brush, regardless of the church. He didn't yell out "I'm 15, go to church, so you can't tell me what to do!". This is a parental issue. I have witnesses, and have been personally (though it has been a while), disruptive youth and have recognized them as church goes. As a side note the four credos that were listed was from a great series on evangelism. It had nothing to do with being a jerk in public.

I know it sounds like I am defending tpc. I would say I am rejecting implications being made. This type of stuff is what can give this forum a bad name. It also devalues the testimonies of those who were hurt because people lump everything on this forum together.

tpcwoattender.....................I honestly feel for you and hope you find the truth soon. It is evident you are lost by your comments. Let me make something clear..............unlike the master marketing machines at Radiant Life and Turning Point, I do not think that most of the people here are concerned about whether the forum has a good name or a bad name. It is a forum and that is what it is. People who have been hurt and devasted by the church have a place to come and express themselves however they choose, including riteous anger at times. Everytime you open your mouth you spew Turning Point propaganda. You are making a broad judgement yourself when you say it devalues the testimony of those hurt. Who does it devalue it too. If you have seen the devastation and lies and manipulation that testimony will never be devalued, even by a truthful post about youth church leaders at tPC. It is only devalued to the people who are bought in and are looking to devalue peoples testimonies instead of listening to the truth in them. You are one of those people and I am so sorry for that. The post about the movie theatre was valid. It was not as much a post about disruptive youth but a post about the youth church leaders at TPC. Instead of making excuses and putting down the posters you should be disgusted. I know if it were my kid I would be involved in correcting the action and if he were a youth leader in the church and acting like that I would take those responsibilities away from him. You are so blinded.

So if yoiu are so worried about what kind of image of name this forum has then dont come here. The truth is that this forum on 'TPC and the forums on RLC have helped hundreds of people to heal and see the gross manipulation of Gods people. This forum in no way could be discredited because of the good that it has done.

Quote
whatajoke

Quote
tpcwocattender
This is regarding the movie incident.

Are we really going to paint an entire church youth program with that broad of a brush, regardless of the church. He didn't yell out "I'm 15, go to church, so you can't tell me what to do!". This is a parental issue. I have witnesses, and have been personally (though it has been a while), disruptive youth and have recognized them as church goes. As a side note the four credos that were listed was from a great series on evangelism. It had nothing to do with being a jerk in public.

I know it sounds like I am defending tpc. I would say I am rejecting implications being made. This type of stuff is what can give this forum a bad name. It also devalues the testimonies of those who were hurt because people lump everything on this forum together.

tpcwoattender.....................I honestly feel for you and hope you find the truth soon. It is evident you are lost by your comments. Let me make something clear..............unlike the master marketing machines at Radiant Life and Turning Point, I do not think that most of the people here are concerned about whether the forum has a good name or a bad name. It is a forum and that is what it is. People who have been hurt and devasted by the church have a place to come and express themselves however they choose, including riteous anger at times. Everytime you open your mouth you spew Turning Point propaganda. You are making a broad judgement yourself when you say it devalues the testimony of those hurt. Who does it devalue it too. If you have seen the devastation and lies and manipulation that testimony will never be devalued, even by a truthful post about youth church leaders at tPC. It is only devalued to the people who are bought in and are looking to devalue peoples testimonies instead of listening to the truth in them. You are one of those people and I am so sorry for that. The post about the movie theatre was valid. It was not as much a post about disruptive youth but a post about the youth church leaders at TPC. Instead of making excuses and putting down the posters you should be disgusted. I know if it were my kid I would be involved in correcting the action and if he were a youth leader in the church and acting like that I would take those responsibilities away from him. You are so blinded.

So if yoiu are so worried about what kind of image of name this forum has then dont come here. The truth is that this forum on 'TPC and the forums on RLC have helped hundreds of people to heal and see the gross manipulation of Gods people. This forum in no way could be discredited because of the good that it has done.

Just as you associate the youth leaders at the movie theatre with a symptom of the youth program as a whole so will people who visit this forum associate a one statement with the entire forum. I have sent people heere to read the stories of those who were hurt. These people are like me, in the process of deciding what to do. To clarify what I meant when I said that the testimonies were devalued is that someone might throw the baby out with the bath water and not take the seriously the real issues.

Please stop getting hung up on why I am still here at tpc and let me worry about that.

I will agree that if you are to have a safe place to express yourself here you don't need me giving an editorial on every post. Point taken and I will stop. Please forgive me. I will still follow along and read what is being posted and when appropriate respond.

Thanks - attender