Hello All,

I agree, God does speak to us. I was going through a very difficult time and had been praying about the problem. One night as clear as a bell I heard "help is on the way." I was alone. And indeed help was coming and the problem was resolved in my favor. God speaks when you have prayed about something and you have a heart to listen for his still small voice.

Daughter of Dorcas

I know I'm late to the game, but I wanted to comment on the *God speaks to me* topic. I can't speak for Tell The Truth, but I have gathered that it's not so much a disbelief that God actually speaks to His people as it is an issue of certain people believing that God speaks only to them....Here's one experience I've had with this.

A few years ago, I believed that the Lord had spoken something to me, it was about something that was happen within TP. I went to a leader and asked her, straight out if this was taking place. She was astonished that I knew, b/c no one had been told, it was one of those *secrets*. She asked how I knew it, and I explained. A few days later, this leader looked at me and told me, "I really wished that you didn't know this, you shouldn't know it, it's none of your business." That stung. But I went on, never mentioning it again. Eventually it went to the back of my mind. I recently remembered this action, and I had to repent to my God, for I had misinterpretted His purpose in giving me the info. It was my opportunity to begin seeing the lies and the deception at TP. The fact that leadership was so upset that I had this info, despite the fact that it came from God Himself, was a huge red flag. The idea that someone besides Mike or Cyndi had heard from God was unnerving for the leaders.

[quote There have been moments when I have heard his whisper, but these have been great moments in my life. Mostly, God speaks to me through what happens in my life i.e. loved one's being saved, and other tangible experiences.

As you will see above, it is not that I do not believe God doesn't speak to us as stated in my quote above from an earlier post. Many of you have seized upon my viewpoint on God speaking which has taken the focus off of TPC. My point was that I believe TPC practices witchcraft and sorcery. That these things God CAN do, are not generated from God, but from man. These things are manufactured for man and from man. I watched the TPC video on their Jubilee in that country they go to every year and have their little church at. I watched a woman who was supposed to have been healed walking without her crutches. She was an elderly woman who really SHOULD have continued using her crutches. She was taking unnecessary risks with her health because she had been "healed." Do I believe in healing, YES, so you don't have to try and convince me that God heals. The purpose of this forum is to expose TPC and talk about what atrocities occur there through false teaching and religious abuse. Sometimes I feel like the TPC way of existing leaks out into past TPC attenders posts. Only some posts get commented on i.e. the popular posts and other posts get attacked. My prior post was to talk about how the leaders at TPC think they are the only ones God talks to. It wasn't to discuss or argue for one position or another on how God speaks to us. While we went to TPC, God spoke to me for sure. But his message to me was sent on how I experienced TPC in my heart and mind. I would leave services feeling less than and feeling like "why can't they see me for who I am" I began to resent my husband because he would never be one of the holy men at TPC. He is a joker and likes to talk about himself. That is absolutley not to be tolerated at TPC. One sunday we visited our old church and the love and relief I felt at that visit was the confirmation we needed to leave TPC. The struggle and conflict and feeling of desperation were gone. I went home. Of course, later we left our old church and have found a new one. But anyways, I was only trying to point out that God speaks in ways other than audibility. We don't just have brains and ears, but we have feelings and hopes and dreams and God uses all of these things to communicate with us and have a relationship. Satan can also speak to us, and he is the great deceiver. Satan so vividly works through music in our culture and now in our churches. It has become about performance and how good the musicians look. There is nothing wrong with good music, but it is used to abuse at TPC. If you don't look a certain way and rush up to the front and worship, you aren't doing it properly. I assert that those who rush up to the front are selfish and self-serving. They want to be seen. There is no room up front for new believers to come forward because all the same people rush up every week so Cyndi and Mike can see them. I went up front once, and God struck my heart hard. I was doing the same thing. I never went back up. Don't get me wrong, I love to worship and worship with my entire being. The danger in the pentacostal perspective is the ability to separate out self-gain and self-seeking and make sure your heart is pure as you approach God. The other danger in the pentacostal perspective is that it attracts people who have mental illness and the proclivity to be unbalanced. It isn't that this perspective is bad, no, not at all. I am just saying that we, as humans, must always check our motives. Are we worshipping or glorifying God because of who he is and what he has done, or are we glorifying and worshipping God because deep in the back of our minds, we think we look good doing it, or sound better doing it or have the appearance of holiness and "what a wonderful heart for God" he or she has. I was talking to God the other day and asked him to purify my heart and my mind as much as can be accomplished as a mere human. Because even though I am cleansed and purified one moment, I can be participating in road rage in the next. So, God, thanks for sending Jesus so you can see me through him. Clean and pure.

Excellent post tell the truth.

tell the truth thanks for your post I think because of our experiences with God speaking we know that God does talk to us but also we have a thing called wishful thinking, which seems to run unchecked in religeous circles. thats why we need to test the things we hear. I know God told me to go to las vegas, so I went I should have realized something was amiss when I got a ticket for speeding on the way, and when I lost all my money and felt like crap, that should have been a clue. In a way though that event keeps me questioning is it you lord or just my wishful thinking speaking. people have done some insane things in the name of God, as for me and this may sound like someone who has no faith, but when I say something to people that I think God is saying I preface it with I think God is telling me this but I could be wrong. I really dont want to speak falsely for God I'm not into the wrath issue. God has spoken to me and His words are usually the oppisite of what I'm thinking and they always set me free, not bind me up like so many word Ive heard spoken in the name of God, now as for your husband, God uses people to test us to see if we really have Gods love and tollerence in us. the tests are easy at first but as we grow they get harder like lifting weights, you know. now as I see it your husband is the last test, if a person can love and accept him then they are ready to walk on water hehehe

I've been asked to put my thoughts about the apostilic ministry into writing. That, and the few new posters here over the last couple of days has got me to thinking. Pershaps it's time to *review* the issues at TP, so that those who are new here don't have to wade through 100+ posts in order to gain the info. Of course, I would still encourage those new to this site to read through the threads, as I think that it gives great insight into the history of many of the posters here.

For my family, the apostolic movement was *the last straw*. We had many issues (some that were very valid, but had been dismissed by leaders) over the years, but just continued to stick it out. We knew that we would never find a church that we agreed with 100%, and agreed to disagree with many things. We believe though that following a false apostle is a sin issue, and something that we could not agree to disagree but support by staying at TP. When the truth about this came to light, we knew that it was time for us to leave.

After making that decision, I found out about this forum. As I read the testimonies of the people here, I realized that the issues that I had with TP were not so small and trivial, but that there was a wide spread problem. I realized that the things I had been taught (that questioning authority was prideful, that having my feelings hurt when trust was broken was selfish, etc) was abusive, and a tactic that was used to keep me under *control*.

I realized that the questions I had about the finances, others had too.....and our concerns were valid, as we've since received some answers. There are some very real financial issues at TP, and I believe that they might need to be addressed legally!

The prosperity doctrine? I will be honest that I'm still on the fence. But what I am confident of is that there are some very real dangers in the doctrine, and that TP has exhibited very clearly why it's so dangerous.....the emphasis on works and perfection, the need to be seen in worship and giving....the idea that one can buy his way into heaven!

The lack of pastoral care was another issue. The excuses given by leadership for why they are lacking didn't make up for the damage that was caused. The size of the church doesn't give Mike a free pass to cut himself off from the body.

At TP, everything has become about image. Leadership wants to give the *image* of being united. You need to look good while in worship, you need to be seen while giving, you need to be seen while ministering at this event or another....you must be at every function, every meeting, involved in every ministry in order to be considered worthy.

Everything cost money. I'm surprised (I'm only half joking) that they haven't started charging admission on Sunday mornings!

SOMA? What is a SOMA education worth? Do you know what they are teaching those students? How to worship the great Aposlte, Pastor Mike! You pay a pretty penny for that privledge. How many young people have given up college education for SOMA? How many young people are within a term of having an actual diploma from a *real* college? What about people who start then *quit* SOMA? Does anyone have any insight on how a person is treated when that happens, how their family is treated?

And honestly, I think that every issue that TP faces can be summed up with one word. Pride. Pastor Mike has been seduced by pride. His staff and elders are kept in place by having their egos strokes (or threatened if they get out of line). Only pride would have someone tell others to stand up and praise him (hime being Pastor Mike, of course). Only pride would stand in front of a thousand people on Sunday and proclaim what a good job preaching one is doing today. Only pride would have one believe that they deserve a $10,000 a month salary while things like the benevolent ministry in his church is being cut. Only Pride would make one believe that only a select group of *holy* individuals hear from God. Only pride would make one think that he is so important that he doesn't have to take the time to visit a dying servant, doesn't have to pay for building 1/3 of his own home, doesn't have to do is own laundry, or cook his own meals, or clean his own toilet (nor does his family)..........

I'm not a writer, or an elquent speaker. I'm sure that there are other issues, but I'm out of time right now, lol. I hope that others will expand on this, and that those of you reading this forum, who are still unsure, will research these things, get answers. Seek the truth, read God's word, is what you are being taught at TP line up?

To Tell the Truth,

Thanks good post

Outreach

Tell the Truth: thank you for clarifying "My prior post was to talk about how the leaders at TPC think they are the only ones God talks to." I felt the same way. My last post wasn't to attack you in ANY way, I just wanted to point out that saying God doesn't speak to people in words isn't accurate. About the leaders thinking they are the only ones who hear from him: I was told I should seek counsel from an elder or preferably a pastor about my decision to leave. I was very hurt by that because it was saying I can't make decisioms on my own because I'm not qualified or not "spiritual" enough.
About the worship: I felt exactly the same way. I noticed that all of a sudden EVERY week during worship, the leader (Cyndi at the time, right after she started leading each week) would do her call to the altar. God quickly got to me with my motives on that one too. A friend of mine started decipleship a long time ago with an elder (I think she's an elder, she's at least the wife of one) and was right away told they were going to "work on" her worship. She (my friend) isn't one to jump and shout and dance but she definitely worships the way we should- for God alone.
To Brokenhearted: you did an excellent job summing up a lot of issues. I found the same with ALL of what you said, I just have a harder time getting it sorted and into words. Thank you!

Regarding all the prosparity teaching......I would like to share a prospective that has not been addressed and trust me I don't have the life experiences that would come close to what this man has. His name is Justin Peters www.justinpeters.org/ please watch the demo video. I look forward to hearing your comments.

Visiting the turning point website I have concluded:
Emily Masten, Maro Lasso, and (i think) Susan Eskelin are no longer mentioned.

I'm pretty sure, last i checked, the above 3 were listed as staff/elders&deacons

does anybody know of any other main people (leadership/other) stepping down?

supposedly, i heard through the grape-vine, that there is going to be a meeting (leadership required meeting) where it will be discussed what is going on with the church. if this is the case, let's all be praying that truth is spoke.