Hey guys, as most of you know I left my church. I am going to explain the pain the joy and freedom that i have experienced during it, this is my story...with some commentary on TPC.

I first had my suspensions about TPC, about 9 months ago, but as I look back on it I see so many "red flags" that I was blind too. It has been hard leaving, knowing that your friends are in a destructive church, wanting them to see it, but knowing that it will take time for them to see or hear. Most of them are so committed that telling them they are working for destruction is not a good starting point, or worse they believe everything the church has told them, with out looking into both sides of the case. They hear one side and assume its truth, in fact the church does not even acknowledge another point of view with out criticism. Well as I have been trying to find out how God wants me to do, I started to feel that I needed to find out who I was, because everything I was and everything I hoped for was wrapped up in the church. The church does a good job of that by having long enduring schedules for soma students, interns, and staff members. Even I was doing 20+ plus hours of serving while I was in high school, although it was publicly taught that you need to honor your parents and do excellently in everything, when I tried to leave a ministry because of school it became a big deal. I never felt so much pressure to stay, they need you.... I believe this because of what they preached on some much on commitment to the church it was always implied if you left a ministry you were walking out on what God called you too. Now as I am eagerly trying to find out who God made me to be I realize that God never intended me for full time TPC ministry, he called me to full time Life Ministry.

During this trials many of my struggles have been intense anger at mainly Pastor Mike, but I am now realizing that the elders are at fault too. Maybe not as much, but they too side-stepped there responsibilities to keep his power in check. I am not angry so much now, i am still upset mainly cause i believe my friends are being lied too, but they understand now and are held accountable. So as I wish they respected me as a friend, I know it is a selfish, but to think that you were so close and you bring an issue to only have them say something that makes it candy coated, kind of makes me think they really are ignorant, but i also remember i was at that place once too. This has left me questioning if my friends are that, do they love me? Do they respect me? Do they understand? Are they really saying that? So God is giving me grace for them, and I am able to seek God for them. Although thinking back on it I don't know if I regret going to TPC, for it once was humble and loving, now it seems so flashy and plastic. So all in all I think it was beneficial because of God and not because of anything they did. In consequence God is what makes everything good.

When I first left the church I felt so free!!! And my thought was if I feel like this outside of church I don't want church! Although my friend had said there are churches were you don't feel bound in, churches where its cool to leave. Its not like we are anything special, but TPC smug attitude and not dealing with people leaving concerns me. As sad as it is it shows a lack of Pastor leadership.

I am going through this process of getting to know myself and am realizing that God is changing my heart in such a fast time. I just recently read a book called "Recovering from churches that Abuse" in two days. Its 158 pages and much of the dangers sound like TPC, although the examples of the abuse are extreme examples they said that cases of "Spiritual abuse" are all over. I would only hope that TPC, looks into the similarities and adjusts there doctrine accordingly, although my fear is that they like the hidden answers to our questions more than they care about our healing.

I have learned so much from TPC more good than bad. Although the bad seems to stick out like a sore thumb, mainly cause the bad is not me thinking negatively, its God showing me what is right. My heart has been hurt, but i know that my heart will heal, I have faith that God will make me the Man he wants and not the Man TP wanted.
Thanks

Forgiveness_101

Forgiveness ~ I too have struggled with anger. I've not only been angery with Pastor Mike, and the elders, but with myself for ignoring the red flags,a nd allowing this to go on for so long. I've been angry with others, who have questioned in the past, but have stopped questioning. I'm angry that the good people, who claim to love the Lord have left themselves wide open to the lies and destruction of the enemy. I'm angry that leaders are defending, and I'm angry that there continues to be so many lies, and cover ups.

Come on TPC. Wake up. Look at what's going on around you. You feel betrayed. You don't know who to trust. Rumors are flying. Your safety and that of your children is possibly at risk. For what? What are you defending? Do you even know? Do you realize that rumors and lies can't stand up to the truth? If everything at TP is above reproach, then there should be no fear. There should be no secrets. There should be no gag order.

Then, my feelings turn to regret. I miss TP terribly. My life has been turned upside down. I wonder if I've made the right decision.

And then sorrow......I am sure that we did the right thing, by leaving. I mourn the loss of something that, I still believe, was once wonderful. My heart aches for those that are trapped by the deceit, and the secrets. My heart aches for what you will one day have to struggle through in order to break free.

And Hope.....For my God is always good.

Psalm 118:5
In my anguish I cried to the Lord, and He answered by setting me free.

Romans 5
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a]have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we[c] also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

Psalm 115:1
Not to us, O Lord, not to us but to your name be the glory, because of your love and faithfulness.

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buddy
TPWOC Last Sunday's sermon by Pastor Mike on: Recession Proof Your Profession: Is now back up on there web site! How many times does Pastor Mike use the word prosper!

Godswarrior
I am not sure I understand why believing that God wants me to prosper is a bad thing. If God loves me and I belong to him why would he not bless me and want me to prosper?
I like to think that when I am seeking him I am rewarded. Does it not say in the Bible to ask and things will be given to you?

Buddy: Only the things God wants you to have according to his will is he going to give you! Some Christians prosper , some don't, thats up to God, no matter how many times you positively confess your bible verse it ain't going to make any different your not going to control Gods will! Everybody wants to prosper, but when it takes over your life and you believe it, teach it and it becomes under the umbrella of the Word-faith movement, name it claim, positive confession, health and wealth prosperity gospel you have a different Jesus and a different gospel then from the historical Christian faith! Can you think of a better way for the great deceiver (satan) to infitrate the body of Christ and turn brothers and sisters away from the pure gospel and the real Jesus! They believe that they can create their own reality by positive confessing and also they believe they become little gods and can control Gods will! This is a good debate for this forum and I look forward to it! I became a born-again christian Jan 1st, 1988 and I dove right into the word-faith movement but a mature christian brother told me to watch out for that movement and turned me on to Dr. Walter Martin the original Bible answer man and I studied every thing that had breath in it and soon was witnessing to the Mormons and JWs! The message by Dr. Walter Martin " The Errors of positive confession" really opened my eyes to the truth! Nobody could out debate the late great Dr. Walter Martin! Then in the 90's I started to debate people in the Word faith movement and Hank Hanegraaff the current bible answer man really went to town against these false teachers and I learned alot from his ministry and from what I heard is that he has a brand new book out called" Christianity in Crisis" 21st Century which exposes some of the current and past teachers and teachings of this false movement. Anyway, I could go on and on. I can't wait to share my story on this Forum! Buddy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2009 01:22AM by buddy.

Forgiveness 101: THANK YOU!

Your testimony speaks in many ways for many of us. The initially ignored red flags, the pain of seeing others deceived, the desire to see honesty and openness among the leaders, as well as investigating the truth instead of defending lies, the FREEDOM you feel when you finally decide to throw off the bondage of being controlled by the expectations and opinions of others, etc. I can so identify with your journey. Thanks for taking the time to write it out. I trust it will help others who are trying to figure things out.

Brokenhearted: YES!

Your sort of "PS" of encouragement in addition to Forgivness 101's post is excellent. Thank you.

Buddy: GREAT POST

Stellar! Keep putting the info out there for us. You're a wealth of information for resources, etc. Keep feeding us with that good direction to where we can find material to help us prepare to articulate the truth.

THANKS, EVERYONE! I am grateful to each of you for taking the time to talk on here. It's been so helpful to me. Enjoy your weekend. :)

God wants us to prosper for sure, but not prosper according to this world. God wants us to prosper in relationship to him. He wants our holiness more than our happiness. He wants us to choose Him and follow him. He does at times bless us with financial prosperity, but it is a double edged sword. He knows us. He knows that we get caught up in the trappings of this world. It is according to his will and purpose whether or not his children financially prosper. Let us not forget that God is not the only entity who can make us prosper. Money and power and influence are of this world and the Prince of Darkness knows how to bring God's people down low. Just give them lots of money. In fact, give them beauty, and money and all the trappings of idolotry and watch God's people quickly dissemble into self. To get caught up in God has blessed me with money and power and place me as the best worship leader because he favors me. This is very faulty and so self absorbed. God blesses because he chooses to. He blesses all of us differently. To say being blessed with prosperity financially is a true mark of his favoritism is so very lost. I know lots of people who have money and they are so unhappy and so unblessed. God does want us to prosper in his righteousness and his beauty. Not in our own or what this world offers.


I am not sure I understand why believing that God wants me to prosper is a bad thing. If God loves me and I belong to him why would he not bless me and want me to prosper?
I like to think that when I am seeking him I am rewarded. Does it not say in the Bible to ask and things will be given to you?[/quote]

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GodsWarrior

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buddy
TPWOC Last Sunday's sermon by Pastor Mike on: Recession Proof Your Profession: Is now back up on there web site! How many times does Pastor Mike use the word prosper!

I am not sure I understand why believing that God wants me to prosper is a bad thing. If God loves me and I belong to him why would he not bless me and want me to prosper?
I like to think that when I am seeking him I am rewarded. Does it not say in the Bible to ask and things will be given to you?

To help cover what Buddy said....Although what he said was very helpful.. thank you buddy.

I would like to add to it.


Believing that God wants me to prosper is not a bad thing.
In fact I believe he wants the best for me, but sometimes to prosper i must first suffer, and when i have faith in my suffering such as JOB had, even after all he had was lost, HE STILL DID NOT CURSE GOD! He was blessed for his faith, God's love is independent from the stuff I have or the heath i have, and so is my faith, my faith is not in that i get what i want when i want, it is in God will always be faithful,

Imagine this philosophy in Africa, thousands dieing from aids, then some one tells you no more starving, if you give God a faith offering so you see masses hear this word that the "no more pain and suffering and anything you want with a drop of a coin" So masses of poor people making a few pennies a day,
give all they have and THE PREACHER GETS MONEY FROM THEM!!! This is not the gospel... its sick deception at its core.

Oh please read many translations of Mathew 7 it provides a better meaning for what Jesus meant... I don't think that when Jesus said (Mathew 7:7) that you get whatever you want, when ever you meant... You have to understand translations are already doing some translating for you so please check other scholarly sources and commentaries of Mathew 7:7.

Forgiveness_101
It is when our belief that consumes us to think that our faith has control over the very "WILL" of God.

Thank you Forgiveness_101 for sharing your testimony. Our God is a Good God and He has shown that He will take care of you and me. The hardest part of leaving TP was losing friendships we had for many years--some before we went to TP. God bless you--God is faithful, especially when the people that have said that they "love" you are no longer around.

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Forgiveness_101

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GodsWarrior

Quote
buddy
TPWOC Last Sunday's sermon by Pastor Mike on: Recession Proof Your Profession: Is now back up on there web site! How many times does Pastor Mike use the word prosper!

I am not sure I understand why believing that God wants me to prosper is a bad thing. If God loves me and I belong to him why would he not bless me and want me to prosper?
I like to think that when I am seeking him I am rewarded. Does it not say in the Bible to ask and things will be given to you?

To help cover what Buddy said....Although what he said was very helpful.. thank you buddy.

I would like to add to it.


Believing that God wants me to prosper is not a bad thing.
In fact I believe he wants the best for me, but sometimes to prosper i must first suffer, and when i have faith in my suffering such as JOB had, even after all he had was lost, HE STILL DID NOT CURSE GOD! He was blessed for his faith, God's love is independent from the stuff I have or the heath i have, and so is my faith, my faith is not in that i get what i want when i want, it is in God will always be faithful,

Imagine this philosophy in Africa, thousands dieing from aids, then some one tells you no more starving, if you give God a faith offering so you see masses hear this word that the "no more pain and suffering and anything you want with a drop of a coin" So masses of poor people making a few pennies a day,
give all they have and THE PREACHER GETS MONEY FROM THEM!!! This is not the gospel... its sick deception at its core.

Oh please read many translations of Mathew 7 it provides a better meaning for what Jesus meant... I don't think that when Jesus said (Mathew 7:7) that you get whatever you want, when ever you meant... You have to understand translations are already doing some translating for you so please check other scholarly sources and commentaries of Mathew 7:7.

Forgiveness_101
It is when our belief that consumes us to think that our faith has control over the very "WILL" of God.

I believe that we are rewarded based on our level of faith. The more faith you have the more rewards you may recieve. I do not believe that we are rewarded based on "acts" which is what I get from your african penny analogy. All the acting in the world will get you nothing but cursed. In my experience greater levels of faith in the Lord has resulted in greater prosperity in the rest of my life.

Quote
GodsWarrior

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Forgiveness_101

Quote
GodsWarrior

Quote
buddy
TPWOC Last Sunday's sermon by Pastor Mike on: Recession Proof Your Profession: Is now back up on there web site! How many times does Pastor Mike use the word prosper!

I am not sure I understand why believing that God wants me to prosper is a bad thing. If God loves me and I belong to him why would he not bless me and want me to prosper?
I like to think that when I am seeking him I am rewarded. Does it not say in the Bible to ask and things will be given to you?

To help cover what Buddy said....Although what he said was very helpful.. thank you buddy.

I would like to add to it.


Believing that God wants me to prosper is not a bad thing.
In fact I believe he wants the best for me, but sometimes to prosper i must first suffer, and when i have faith in my suffering such as JOB had, even after all he had was lost, HE STILL DID NOT CURSE GOD! He was blessed for his faith, God's love is independent from the stuff I have or the heath i have, and so is my faith, my faith is not in that i get what i want when i want, it is in God will always be faithful,

Imagine this philosophy in Africa, thousands dieing from aids, then some one tells you no more starving, if you give God a faith offering so you see masses hear this word that the "no more pain and suffering and anything you want with a drop of a coin" So masses of poor people making a few pennies a day,
give all they have and THE PREACHER GETS MONEY FROM THEM!!! This is not the gospel... its sick deception at its core.

Oh please read many translations of Mathew 7 it provides a better meaning for what Jesus meant... I don't think that when Jesus said (Mathew 7:7) that you get whatever you want, when ever you meant... You have to understand translations are already doing some translating for you so please check other scholarly sources and commentaries of Mathew 7:7.

Forgiveness_101
It is when our belief that consumes us to think that our faith has control over the very "WILL" of God.

I believe that we are rewarded based on our level of faith. The more faith you have the more rewards you may recieve. I do not believe that we are rewarded based on "acts" which is what I get from your african penny analogy. All the acting in the world will get you nothing but cursed. In my experience greater levels of faith in the Lord has resulted in greater prosperity in the rest of my life.

Try thinking at a wider scale... I am sure people in Africa have lots more faith than I yet it is me that lives in America? Yet it is me that is healthy? Yet it is me that drives a blazer (although the car itself belongs to my mom), yet they still miscarry, yet they still have aids... I am very wealthy in comparison to any man in Africa. I read the bible daily, yet they long to have a Bible, there faith "under pressure" is far more than I have, because God is all they have.

Again think of it like this, I knew a friend whos parents are very into the "WOF" movement, his parents we going to have a kid, they "named it and claimed it" there baby was healthy... not so they said positive things, they are upright and faithful people... there baby died soon after being born....

When you say "MAY" be rewarded, Are people rewarded for there faith or aren't they? If you life experience shows me that you are faithful and blessed and the Africans shows me that they are faithful despite misfortunes... The Big Question is this, can i say that someone has more or less faith because of how fortunate (rewarded) they are?


PS. Do you believe in the word of faith as it taught, or do you believe in your own version, if so please explain why your version will work, and why how it is taught by every other word of faith preacher is wrong.

Forgiveness_101

It has been brought to my attention that I may have gone a bit overboard in posting here. That I'm entering dangerous territory that could easily turn to gossip. I haven't determined yet if I agree, but I will be taking a step back, to consider this. These are a few questions that I'm asking myself.

*Why am I posting here? What is my heart condition, and what do I hope to accomplish?

*Do the things that I share here have value? Will my words (and actions) glorify the Lord?

*Am I sharing truth? Is the *truth* skewed by my perception?

*Is my delievery offensive to others? Is the message that I wish to relay lost b/c I use offensive terms, or use too many words, or am I too emotional, or, or....?

I am not seeking feedback on *my* actions (though you are welcome to p/m me if you feel it's necessary). I do not want to turn this into something about me, nor am I singling out one poster. I am bringing these issues public, b/c I think that it could benefit us all, to consider our hearts, and how others perceive our actions. We are called to be above reproach. That's what I'm asking of TPC, and it's what I expect of myself.

I think that there has been some great dialog here, and I hope it doesn't stop. I don't plan on exiting this forum, just being cautious. I think that it's important to bring the issues into the light, and to address them.

Members of TP, I love you, dearly. I've never intended to hurt you.

~BH