Wow!!! What a fantastic dialogue about what a real apostle is and, is not!
wantingtruth & LearningPoint you both make excellent points regarding the characteristics of an apostle.
I believe that you have both presented the argument that "PLANTING CHURCHES" has been grossly misused by Tony and Mike to qualify them as true apostles of out Lord Jesus Christ.
There were people caught up in the "Peoples Temple cult" that Thought Jim Jones was an apostle and prophet of god. Eventually Jones was walking around with a messiah complex. People were worshiping him! People were following Jones as the mouth piece of God. I would argue that Tony has these characteristics, as his followers, which look to him as “the mouth piece of God.” He has convinced a small group of people that he is and he has enabled there endorsement of his supposed authority to manipulate others. By that I mean he has had these people come with him up to Turning Point to advance his authority in the lives of Mike and Cindi and there leadership at Turning Point. Tony has also used his SOMA curriculum to advance his authority and influence over the young minds of the youth.

This tactic of influencing the youth is used by many cults and political propaganda experts. Adolf Hitler did not go after the old and middle aged people in Germany. He strategically built up an army of young people fueled with his charisma anger and hate. Hitler was able to influence many small groups throughout Germany that forwarded his belief system and authority. Eventually he had enough supporters and followers strategically in place that he was able to advance his political influence over Germany.
Now we are witnessing the same scenario played out with the rise of popularity and influence of Brock Husain Obama. He never told the people of the United States that he embraces the socialist belief system that Carl Marx’s laid out.

Tony and Mike are not being honest with the people that they lead!!! They have a hidden agenda and it is being exposed! They are acquiring wealth for themselves! Tony is manipulating the gospel to influence small groups of people to follow him “as the mouth piece of god.” I believe that when you break down the theological belief system of Tony Cunningham you will clearly see that he is teaching people to follow a different Jesus, that “salvation is a necessary daily-hourly exercise” that “what you offered yesterday or last hour is not enough to please Tony’s god.

My Challenge to any one who would follow Tony or Mike is sit down and read your bible, not Tony’s book or Mikes notes! Take a 2 month break break from Tony and Mike attending other churches listening to Christian radio.

I believe that God with lead you back to the truth if you seek Him only!
When Jesus said "It is finished" and the Temple veil was ripped in half

BraveHeart

The challange here is to look at the evedence that Tony and Mike are pushing on to their followers!
It is to challange the followers to un-plug from there robotic trance they are in and look at the fruit these guys have to offer. Then ask how does this new teaching or deeper meanings (spiritual parenting, spiritual authority ect.) match up with the word of God?

I am not going to tell you what to believe......

Does the teachings of Tonys spiritual authority benifit the Kingdom of God? or the kingdom of Tony?

take a piece of paper and form 2 collums one titled "the characteristics of an apostle" and the other tittled "the characteristics of a false apostle"
then after you have your list compair Tony & Mike's teachings and fruit to your list.
What characteristics do Tony & Mike line up with?

BraveHeart

Yes Braveheart, this is as great dialog. Thank you all for participating.

TPR, I agree with you that Mike's false teachings are a problem, but I don't agree that is the main issue. I believe at the core is this apostolic movement. When Mike's focus became himself, and his position as an *apostle* he lost all sight of Jesus. This is, I believe, where the teachings began to become skewed. Now, I don't want to give the impression that I think the teaching is not important. They are, of course, a central piece of this puzzle. But I think that we have to address the heart. Mike is not going to stop the false teachings until the false position is put to rest. Mike is not going to stop entertaining his pride as long as he and others believe that he is an Apostle (and worthy of double/triple honor).

The false teachings absolutely need to be stopped. But the problems at TPC go much deeper and the root of these issues need to be adressed, or new problems are going to creep up.

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BraveHeart
The challange here is to look at the evedence that Tony and Mike are pushing on to their followers!
It is to challange the followers to un-plug from there robotic trance they are in and look at the fruit these guys have to offer. Then ask how does this new teaching or deeper meanings (spiritual parenting, spiritual authority ect.) match up with the word of God?

I am not going to tell you what to believe......

Does the teachings of Tonys spiritual authority benifit the Kingdom of God? or the kingdom of Tony?

take a piece of paper and form 2 collums one titled "the characteristics of an apostle" and the other tittled "the characteristics of a false apostle"
then after you have your list compair Tony & Mike's teachings and fruit to your list.
What characteristics do Tony & Mike line up with?

What a great idea!

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TurningPointReject

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Forgiveness_101
Hello, Braveheart

I would think that they would say that the church plants would all be testimonies to P. Mikes apostlic call.

Hi Forgiveness. Good to see you.

Can you tell us a bit about these churches planted by the apostle Mike? How many churches? Where are they located? Average number of people attending each church?What, actually, did Mike do to "plant" these churches? etc.

How is it that Mike is considered the planter if he isnt the one out doing the foot work? He may have helped encourage the teams that are doing the work, but he himself isnt doing any of the heavy lifting. He may have trained and encouraged but he, himself, has only planted ONE church. But this issue is really just a distraction. When Paul started new churches he did the heavy lifting in the actual communities to get the church started then he handed over the reigns to local leaders and left to start a new church in a new location. I don't believe that is what Mike has done.

The concerns really are not so much with Mike being or not being an apostle. Its with the false teachings that Mike engages in and propagates under the guise of Apostle and Prophet. Teachings like "spiritual parenting", "Honoring", "Covenant Relationships", "Word of Faith", and "prosperity" doctrine all are false teachings. These teachings depend on the teacher twisting and re-interpreting biblical texts to contrive a new meaning that couldn't possibly be there in the original context, all for the sake of manipulating, controlling and coercing the hearers to do and give for the sake of building the kingdom of the apostle.

A Brief History of the Apostle Mike's Church Planting Journey

Mike's first church plant as is known by all was Turning Point located in Marysville WA. This was the original church planted by Mike. It took several years to grow this church and it has now become the envy of all other churches in Marysville. This church is more caring than any other church in the community. Did you know this church raised close to one million dollars for the construction of a new church building? What ever happened to that money anyway? Or the new building? Is it possible that one million dollars has quickly become less than half a million dollars?

The second church planted by Mike was started in Darrington Washington. Mike was sent to Darrington... Oh wait. Mike didn't go to Darrington did he. Ray A. planted the Darrington church. I'm sorry. My mistake.

The third church planted by Mike was Real Life Ministies in Lake Stevens. This church formed after Mike and Cyndi relocated to the North Shore of the Lake. Oh wait, Keith planted this church. Sorry about that. I thought Mike was sent to plant this church. Never mind.

After the successful launch of the Lake Stevens Church, Mike heard God speak to him about the great wealth in Canada. Soon following that revelation, Mike and Cyndi left Lake Stevens and were sent by God to Burnaby Canada to start Turning Point of the Great White North, eh. Wait...whats this? Mike and Cyndi never moved to Canada? Turning Point BC is a home group started by a former SOMA student from Canada? Oh. I didn't know. I thought Mike planted the Canadian version of TPC. Well moving on...

After the Canadian church was birthed and the leaders were trained, God's call upon Mike was strong. He understood the Lord to be saying,"Go and Save the Philippines". So Mike and Cyndi once again packed up all their belongings and made the long trek over the ocean...what? They didn't go and plant this church? It was planted by a local philippino pastor? And another family, Nathan and Kara, are actually doing the hard work of planting over seas? Oh dear. Please forgive me. I keep getting my notes mixed up.

The sixth Church planted by Mike and Cyndi is located in the beautiful Skagit Valley. Mike and Cyndi have spent many long hours sowing seeds and building relationships with the community. Mike and Cyndi hosted several meetings in their home in anticipation of soon starting preview services for the community. It was with great fanfare Mike preached his first message at TPCSV when the church officially launched this January. What's that? David? David who? I thought you said it was Mike who planted this church. Who is David? This is becoming rather embarrassing. Well lets move on.

What about the newest church plant? Down south in Oregon. Yes. After many months laboring in a foreign land, Mike and Cyndi, were once again sent by God to plant a new work in the Beaver state. This is their current location and they report that God is doing a great work among the native and transplant Oregonians. They...excuse me...whats that you say? Mike and Cyndi are not in Oregon? The Oregon church is a split off another church down there? You don't say. And this church is being led by another Pastor other than Mike? Oh my.

So. Now you see the proof. Mike is, indeed, an apostle. How can he not be? Look at all the churches he himself has planted pouring out his blood, sweat and tears and he selflessly cultivated each church often working 20 hours a day. Seven strong, thriving, vibrant churches in little more than 12 years. The fruit speaks for itself.

I have heard Mike say that the Darrington and Lake Stevens church plants were not *real* plants. He did not *send* those leaders out to plant churches, they went w/out being under his (Pastor Mike's) covering.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2009 07:37AM by Brokenhearted.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2009 08:18AM by Brokenhearted.

TPWOC Pastor Mike Villamor message for Sunday March 8th is now on line at they TPWOC web site: Recession Proof your Profession : How many times did Pastor Mike use the word prosper! TPWOC made the front page of the March 8th Sunday paper: Everett Herald



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2009 10:29AM by buddy.

I found this on the blog for the Everett Herald Newspaper for Sunday's paper which has a huge article about the big mess with the interns at Totem Elementary. I Really liked what this guy had to say for the most part, and he is right about a lot of what Mike Villamore is doing with the manipulating, etc. hope this gives another opinion in an eye opening way.

God Bless,

giftofsong


Bull
"Look folks; Mike Villamoor loves to involve his church in civil projects. This is deliberate. Any Christian can tell you that we are not to be boastful yet Mike Villamoor takes every oportunity to do so. His main goal is to ingratiate the city officials so that when something like this popps up, he has a powerful friend or two to help him out. He is involved in recruting children and young adults for his christian army. He has aligned himself and his church with Tony Cunningham of the Radient Life Church in Sacrimento. That church is listed as dangerous in "cult watch". Villamoor and Cunningham are long frinds and Cunningham is calling Villamoor a new age Apostle. Mike Villamoor has complete control over his pastors and members and pressures for exorbitant amounts of money and time from them. What was once a small church has grown into a Campus with a huge chapel, SOMA college level school, a gradeschool, a daycare center, two homes for male and female live-in dorms and more. They have a video production studio where they crank out youth videos targeted to recruit with promises of fun times and free food and drinks from "Solid Ground" espresso. His goal is to plant more churches that will come under his 'covering'and provide even more cash flow. This church is less about Christ and more and more about Mike Villamoor. Watch the videos and see how often Jesus comes into the topic. Just the nuts and bolts of church people and activities mostly. In Mike Villamoors first video he went to visit his son in school. They filmed the whole thing. Their conversation, the laughs and hugs. And Mike also (by acident) filmed other students walking around in the area. Those students and their parents have no idea their kids are now on YOU TUBE.
Here is the video, the other kids are about 1:20 into the vid.

[www.youtube.com]

Mike Villamoor is about being the Spiritual Parent to children and young adults. He manipulates them into the church machine and he will use them and drain them of their identity, time and money."
James Campbell | Mar 8, 2009 5:08 am |

GiftofSong thanks for posting this observation that you found.

I started asking questions about Turning Point and there association back in October 2008
Now to think about how this story made its way to the media I wonder if Turning Point Church is taking any phone calls? What are the elders and leaders going to do now?
quote giftofsong]I found this on the blog for the Everett Herald Newspaper for Sunday's paper which has a huge article about the big mess with the interns at Totem Elementary. I Really liked what this guy had to say for the most part, and he is right about a lot of what Mike Villamore is doing with the manipulating, etc. hope this gives another opinion in an eye opening way.

God Bless,

giftofsong


Bull
"Look folks; Mike Villamoor loves to involve his church in civil projects. This is deliberate. Any Christian can tell you that we are not to be boastful yet Mike Villamoor takes every opportunity to do so. His main goal is to ingratiate the city officials so that when something like this pops up, he has a powerful friend or two to help him out. He is involved in recruiting children and young adults for his christian army. He has aligned himself and his church with Tony Cunningham of the Radiant Life Church in Sacramento. That church is listed as dangerous in "cult watch". Villamoor and Cunningham are long friends and Cunningham is calling Villamoor a new age Apostle. Mike Villamoor has complete control over his pastors and members and pressures for exorbitant amounts of money and time from them. What was once a small church has grown into a Campus with a huge chapel, SOMA college level school, a grade school, a daycare center, two homes for male and female live-in dorms and more. They have a video production studio where they crank out youth videos targeted to recruit with promises of fun times and free food and drinks from "Solid Ground" espresso. His goal is to plant more churches that will come under his 'covering' and provide even more cash flow. This church is less about Christ and more and more about Mike Villamoor. Watch the videos and see how often Jesus comes into the topic. Just the nuts and bolts of church people and activities mostly. In Mike Villamoors first video he went to visit his son in school. They filmed the whole thing. Their conversation, the laughs and hugs. And Mike also (by accident) filmed other students walking around in the area. Those students and their parents have no idea their kids are now on YOU TUBE.
Here is the video, the other kids are about 1:20 into the vid.

[www.youtube.com]

Mike Villamoor is about being the Spiritual Parent to children and young adults. He manipulates them into the church machine and he will use them and drain them of their identity, time and money."
James Campbell | Mar 8, 2009 5:08 am |[/quote]

So Turning Point did Tony Cunningham teach you how to respond to this kind of story in his Strategic Advance class?

Do you still recognize Mike to be an apostle? how about Tony?