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M&M
Wow. I was just thinking about this when reading an article about Narcissim in the Pulpit. In it it said that this person exaggerates to elevate their own sense of importance......

M&M
your right on with this observation! others have discussed the Narcissim over on the "...Radiant Life church...a cult?" Forum go back to about Page 128. I believe it was WhatAJoke or Ring Barer that provided some excelent reasearch there.

LearningPoing you asked,
"Do you think it's possible that this unchecked habit of exaggeration might have been a factor in developing a comfort level with more significant lies?"

YES!!! we have seen it here in Sacramento in Mr. Cunningham

Definition of Narcissism: 1)Egoism, Egocentrism 2)Love of our sexual desires for one's own body. That's why Mike had the recession proof your sex life, it was all for him!

First post about Narcissism on RLC thread is at the bottom of p. 124. Here's what's there:

A good read from [wiki.answers.com] :

Q: What happens if your pastor is narcissistic?

Answer: He looks for attention and does gracious things like charity work so he could get the glory and if he doesn't like you, he'll use the pulpit to criticize you.

The Narcissistic Religious Leader:

Call him a pastor, priest, rabbi--whatever. But don't fall into the trap of thinking that this institution exists for the sake of faith or spiritual development. Forget it. If the leader is a narcissist, then this church or synagogue (etc.) exists solely for the purpose of enhancing the image of the man in charge. That is all. Congregants exist to provide a steady stream of narcissistic supply. People are moved into, or out of, various positions as they prove their ability to bring honor and glory, NOT to the Almighty, but to the narcissistic leader himself. Of course there is a spectrum; but in the extreme case, the narcissistic religious leader is an idolater. He worships his own image, and he expects you to do so as well.

Narcissists seem almost telepathic at times in their ability evaluate anyone's value to their mission. From the moment that you first enter his domain, you are being sized up. Whether the sign on the door says Agape Fellowship, St. Xavier's, or Temple Shalom, the true mission is to promote the honor and glory of Pastor X, Father Y, or Rabbi Z. Your first encounter with the narcissistic leader is likely to be pleasant and he will compliment any obvious qualities that he can use for his own purposes.

But this is important: He will also be able to identify your vulnerabilities just as quickly as your strengths, and he will use these in the classic narcissist's cycle of first over-valuing, and then de-valuing you, your spouse, your children, and basically your entire existence. You will be manipulated so that you provide him with all the resources at your disposal that may enhance him, while you yourself get very little in return, and certainly not the spiritual growth you were looking for. If you object or disagree with him in any way, you be marked as a threat. And then it can get ugly.

When the de-valuation begins, you think that there has been a miscommunication; you ask to meet with him to clear the air. All such efforts are likely to fail, because the narcissistic leader has no stake in making things clear (except of course the one great truth that he is in charge, and that he is entitled). He flourishes in an atmosphere of confusion and insecurity in which no one really knows where they stand, and everyone is being subtly undermined to keep them in line. The result over time will be emotional and spiritual turmoil.

You keep trying various ways to improve the situation--such as giving more money than you can really afford in response to the financial campaigns that the narcissistic leader typically will launch. And that may temporarily improve your status, but only until the next round of de-valuation begins--and believe me, it will. Frankly, the situation will only improve when you realize what is going on, cut your losses, and leave.

You may join such a congregation believing that you are launching into the spiritual adventure of a lifetime. But quickly your exhilaration will turn into confusion, disappointment and maybe even depression (for which you will be blamed and invalidated of course). The man's true religion is himself, no matter what collar or headgear he wears. If you've seen the film, The Matrix, then think of it this way: all you are to him is a coppertop. Wake up and smell the coffee. Get out of there while your soul, mind, marriage, health and perhaps finances are still relatively intact.

Just for fun:

OK. This is just a bit of ironic comic relief for all of us. In high school I had to read Brave New World for my English Lit. class. Anyone else read that book? Soma (the drug) was the way people checked out for "vacation" in that futuristic society. Here's a link with a bunch of soma quotes from BNW. Some of them might make you giggle as you enjoy the irony of the SOMA-soma connection.

[www.huxley.net]

Have a good week, all!

PS: Sample quote: "Swallowing half an hour before closing time, that second dose of soma had raised a quite impenetrable wall between the actual universe and their minds."

Good afternoon everyone,

It was refreshing to hear a sermom totally opposite to what we heard at Turning Point. "God Vs. The Carrot" Solomon had it all...you couldn't ask for more. He had power, wealth, wisdom and more experiences than any of us could imagine. And yet, he found himself feeling frustrated.
The desire to have something "newer and nicer"...the attempt to chase the elusive carrot...it all left Solomon empty and exhausted.
So where do we find true satisfaction if it isn't through the accumulation of more?

Eccelesiastes 2:4-11

Chasing after the carrot instead of seeking God. ITimothy 6:9-10 Which was posted earlier this week. People who want to get rich falling into temptations. Also verse 17-"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment."
1) My Focus-What will I seek? Luke 12:22-32 Seek first God's kingdom. V.31
2) My Worth- We are more valuable to him than birds V. 24
3) My Father-Relational context. Seek his kingdom and he will give us everything we need. Not want!
God is our Provider Luke 12:30b-32
So that was the message in a nut shell.
Have a good week!

Hi All,

I am a Turning Point survivor and I am here to say that there is life after leaving TP. My family and I left TP a while ago and I want to say that our God is Good, Great and full of Grace, working in other churches--bringing healing to those who love him. I have been helped my reading many of the posts here on this blog for about the last six months. Thank you for all of you contributors for posting your concerns for TP and sharing your experiences. I want to share one particular incident at TP that left me feeling disillusioned and perhaps if I had been in the "inner circle" I would have been treated better.

One of my siblings had just died after a long battle with cancer. I decided to go to worship practice a few days after this tragic event because I thought that being around other fellow believers would help me more that just staying at home. On worship practice night, we usually have a "small group" time when people can share prayer request and Cyndi would give us a lesson from the word. This particular night we practiced a little then broke up for our "small group" time. This time was weird because Cyndi announced that tonight she only wanted to hear "praises". "Only praises", she kept repeating. I sat there thinking that even with all the grief I was feeling inside that I could still make my sister's death into a "praise". After all, she became a believer through the course of her bout with her illness. So, that is what I did. I was hoping to get some prayer support but instead I got nothing. NO ONE prayed for me or for my family. I felt worse than when I walked in that night. It was kind of surreal--I was devastated! I kept thinking that this was not happening to me and that was I crazy?

Now when I hear about Mitch's death, I wonder if DEATH and DYING does not fit into the "Word of Faith" theology. People knew about my sister. She was on everyone's prayer request list. If people who are not healed and eventually lose their life--is that wrong? Are we all not sinners and will die from this life to to to the next to be with our Lord Jesus? This is just one story, there is more.

Welcome Wounded Warrior,

Thanks for your testimony.

Outreach

Wounded Warrior, when I read your post it was as if I was writing it or you were sharing my experience. My brother died when I was a regular attender at TPC and he died an agonizing death from cancer. His cancer gifted him with a conversion experience and he was preaching Christ to all his old drinking buddies. It was awesome to watch. Certainly this is in opposition to the prosperity message, but I ask you is it? Was it not more prosperous for my brother to die and live in eternal paradise rather than to gain the whole world? This is true prosperity. To die is to gain. When he died there were no calls from my new "family" and no cards or utterances of support and usual stuff that people who care about you express during such a time. But, what was interesting was that our old church sent cards and calls of support abounded. This to me is fruit. Caring and loving the people who are a part of the body of Christ. But at TPC, there is no time for such frippery. If you're not bulding the kingdom of TPC via this activity or that activity, you really aren't part of anything there.

For some reason, when I went to TPC, I became hyper focused on worship music. I just had to do it, and why weren't they picking me? Why were they putting women (barely women at that) on the teams who were having premarital sex? One certainly bore fruit from it a year or so later. But, what has happened since I left TPC is that it is just not a priority for me. If I begin to worship on a team at my new church, then that is just what will happen. It is like a miracle inside of me. I just don't care if that is what I do. The world is not where I belong and I sometimes can't wait to go home. I'm just lucky that God pulled me out of the muck and mire of where I was years ago. All the other stuff like how many go to the church and how much money the church brings in aren't the main points of a church. What is your church doing in the body to nurture and love each other? What is the body doing in the world to bring that forward? If a church doesn't take care of widows and orphans and old people, there is a problem. Big Problem.

Recession proof your mind set is now online on TPWOC web site. Goofy Cyndi is giving the message for this Sunday march 3rd at TPWOC. Quotes from Pastor Cyndi from today's message: "I,m thinking if you are a sheep and that is what this passage is referring to, and your a little sheep and there wolves all over and there ready to pounce on you Jesus Christ has a big rod and staff! Don't worry, don't worry those wolves that are ready to pounce on you are not nearly as capable as Jesus Christ your shepard!" The problem with this statement from Cyndi is that the Wolves have made there home TPWOC all ready and quite frankly I personally think Pastor Cyndi is a Wolf in sheeps clothing! The Bible tells us how to tell who the wolves are Matt 7:15-23 and they claim to preform miracles! Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then,if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness (2 Cor11:14-15 Matt 24:24) Paul makes it clear that miraculous powers can be the work of Satan! They will be more concerned with their own desires than with God's glory and honor. Their doctrine will be self-centered rather than God centered. They will accept human teachings and traditions even when those teachings contradict the Word of God. They will seek and respond to religious experiences and supernatural manifestations as their final authority in validating truth rather than grounding themselves in the whole counsel of God's Word. They will be professing Christians whose loyalty belongs more to personalities than to the Word of God. They worship the creature more than the creator! Wolves live and hunt in packs and resemble the related dogs! The Wolves TP people are there and they have made their home with you and you are the sheep and they are running out of the dog food that Mike fed them! A matter of fact is that Mike has turned into one of them!



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2009 12:05PM by buddy.

Yes, WW, we're glad you've joined us here. A warm welcome to you.

I'm sorry about your losing your sister. (I praise God with you for her saving faith.) I just wish you could have experienced others bearing your burden with you when you needed it most. That's great, though, that you've been able to move on into healing. I hope you'll stay with us and share more.

PS: Could you help us out by telling us what's been most helpful to read about in the six months you've been following the thread? Maybe we could focus in more on those kinds of things in our testimonies, or maybe it will bring to mind things we haven't shared that might be good to post. If you don't mind...