Maybe the people (pastors, elders, deacons, staff, church members) who disagree in the direction Mike is taken the Church should start there own church!

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Forgiveness_101
Hi guys,

I have been doing research, in fact i have been talking with several ex-elders from RLC. This is proving to be very intresting, as i am having to pray more, and up my accountablity because Satan is making things more tempting or he is throwing things more my way. It is really sobering because i know that the enemy is not Mike or Tony. Tony is being used by the devil, but he is still human, and its hard but i pray for him before i do my research. Tony is decieving Mike, once mike realizes this, which apparently from a second hand sorce, that some leaders have admitted and have realized that he is not accountable, so thats a step in the right direction although about 5 years too late. I hope he finds true accountablity and not the elders, whom seem more like YES MEN than real accountablity.
So till i have more eveidence i will post then.
Till then can't wait to hear what Tony has to say to my friends at SOMA.

FORGIVENESS_101
Yes the enemy will hurl anything at you that they think will cause you to stumble. That is the very nature of how they operate. But remember this, we who put out faith in Christ do not have to live in shame, knowing that our new identity is “trusting who God says we are” This is where we differ from those who promote a Sin-Management system like Tony does. This is a basses that Tony’s theology promotes. He will spiritually beat people up making them feel and believe that they do not measure up, what they sacrifice or offered yesterday in not good enough for today!!!
He will manipulate prayer sessions to be-little the congregation and make them believe that they are not doing enough to Pease God.
Tony’s theology promotes a performance-obsessed culture that creates more wounding and manipulation!!!!

“The more influence we have, the more we are tempted to hide our true self for fear we will lose that influence.” This is the struggle that your leadership is facing.

I know people like Tony are slandering my reputation and character. His slanderous remarks are now flowing out of the mouths of leaders at your church trying to discredit my postings and others who are posting here on this web site.

I am encouraged that several people from Turning Point are doing their own investigation.
I encourage more people to do the same thing!
I believe that the truth will prevail and expose the false teachers!!!
The more and more people that dig into a ministry that is operating in secret that has no transparency the more you will discover hidden teachings, manipulated finances and layers and layers of spiritual abuse.

BraveHeart

Hey you guys once again,

Since the recent flood of posts i decided to post again to address the issues, and maybe play the role of devils advocate.

The Evidence of Pastor Mike being an Apostle they would say, one he thought he was an apostle for a while, he waited on God, then two people different occasions called him an apostle, they were pastors. One of them was Tony and the other i will not name, (if you want to find out do some research but I will not publicly say his name).

Next Pastor Tony anointed him as an apostle (this argument is destroyed by about 5 hours of research on Pastor Tony).

Next look at apostles they plant churches, we have yet to have a church plant go down.... and we have fruit from them.
(This i have to admit is there only point)

So they do have a case for him being an apostle, now how much authority he has, is very debatable.

I have heard it argued, look at King David, look at the prophets, look at Paul what authority did they have?

King David had the Prophets, but who then did the prophets have, well in the old testament the more authority you had
the greater the punishment if you are wrong. IE: False prophecy=Death. King David does not apply, unless you assume that Pastor Mike is
a king. That argument would be self defeating because no one is going to say he is a king and should have the same authority as a King.
Next is Paul does Mike have the same authority as pastor Mike, should he? If you say that (which clearly no one would say that Pastor Mike should have the same level of authority, because that would mean that he could write scripture) trapping yourself for clear attack. You can not and should not presume, that the authority given to you means that you should not be responsible with it, and have it watched over. That is just clear arrogance.

The next question i think is note worthy is, If he is an apostle why the title?

In my experience i have seen countless people wanting to do stuff for the pastor. Do his laundry, wash his car, make him dinner, mow his lawn.
This because of the authority he gets for being an apostle, people want to suck up. Now i am not saying everyone is sucking up, i think that mowing someones lawn is a healthy thing, but the problem lies when many people all want to do stuff for you. It becomes worship, to bring worth too. His affirmation is bringing worth to these people. Lets say the church reaches 3000 people who do you say yes to, and who do you say no too? The best way to avoid the appearance of evil is to just not have people do it. An example of this is recently someone blessed pastor Mike with a Motorcycle, this is not a sin in itself! This becomes a problem when people want to give him a jet, a yacht, a house, a helicopter. You see it becomes a competition on who can get more of pastor mikes attention. You see he should have said "thank you for the jester of kindness, and really i am flattered, but the best thing you could do for me is bless the widow down the street".


but this stems from the "honor teaching"
To honor your leaders.
We see honor in the church very often stressed that it should flow from bottom up, but honor is not
and will never be the obsessive need to bless someone as it looks like at turningpoint (although i believe that some people are pure hearted it is up to the pastor to put a stop to it). It will come out of a life style of prayer and worship. Your heart will naturally want to be nice, give, bless, correct gently and find truth. it should not be a high pressure situation.

Should Mike have a business?

Many people have said YES! This is an example of how successful God wants us to be! One simple business law class will teach you no he should not have a side business. Now a governor is not allowed to own a business, the next question would be why?

The reason why Pastor Mike should not have a business is because he is that A PASTOR! His success will never be measured by how good of a job he does but the title of apostle and pastor. Suppose that two people want to buy a house from him, one goes to the church and mows his lawn regularly, the other one does not go to your church. Who do you choose to do business with if you have to choose one?

Next, because of your reputation of a pastor that is going to get you business with in your church cause they know who you are and all are dieing for his attention. Maybe there motives are pure, but it looks BAD and WRONG!

Now all of this comes from one issue, which embodies all of these issues, Lack of accountability. When he establishes that, then TPC, will begin to function normally.

Till next time
Forgivenss

Hallelelujah, Praise the Lord, Amen: Yesterdays sermon by Pastor Jeff Moors on Recession Proof your Family was a Home Run!

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wherefromhere
I am wondering what Tony Cunningham is going to teach our soma students about what has happened down at Radiant Life's crumbling kingdom, where most of his staff has resigned. It had to be serious for Tony to lose his Spiritual son Brandon Miller. Maybe the resigning of Pastor Jackie is just the begining for Pastor Mike and Cindy's crumbling kingdom. Look around, families are starting to leave. It is very noticable to many of us. It has to be serious for Pastor Jackie to resign. Knowing she has been the heart of TPC for the last 11 or 12 years. Who will take her place, Pastor Cindy? Cindy is one of the coldest women I have ever met. I tried for years to talk to her, but she never gave of herself one time. I have one issue that just tears me up, when they returned from their supposed rest filled sabbactical how she flaunted their buying a new harley for her. Didnt she understand that so many were not even able to put groceries on their tables. It must be nice for the Pastor Mike to make over 100,000.00 a year and the rest of us are trying to just make ends meet. The church is in financial trouble, yet the senior pastors make an inexcusable salary. What has happened that we cant buy kleenix for the sanctuary and yet we send groups down to Lebanon and pay for gas, and food all from church funds. Where does the money come from? Mike and Cindy's salary? I do not know what Pastor Cindy makes, but I know it is more than all the other pastors and she doesnt work full time. Why does the church hide staff salaries? would we be shocked? I myself am shocked at the salary the Pastor Mike makes. And I know that if you included his soma salary it would be much more. What is going on? Who leaves next? I am hurt and do not trust leadership anymore. I can barely pay my rent and it is not because I havent prayed for increase, I always tithed. But God is fatihful and has supplied all our NEEDS!

Now now, lets not beat up on Cyndi because of her Harley. After all, Jesus had his donkey; Elijah had his whirlwind; Paul sailed on a ship. These people are important people. Their work is important work. We can expect that they would indulge in these sort of behaviors, not because they are vain or insensitive to the plight of the common people but because they are blessed by God; they are called by God. And this mode of transportation will be blessed and used by God to expand their kingdom.

And lets not fret over the $100,000 dollar salary. People its just money. Can we really put a price on a lost soul? Besides, you have been assured that Mike and Cyndi are working in many other business ventures because they want to be able to not have to take a salary from the church. No doubt the day they stop taking pay from the church is coming...soon...not sure when...but...sometime soon...maybe...

SERIOUSLY: There is something to be said for an effective form of accountability. To whom are the pastors accountable? To whom are Mike and Cyndi accountable? Does the new church structure being put in place by Mike and the remaining Elders create more accountability or less accountability? Will there be more transparency or less transparency? Who will dare to ask these sort of questions of their apostle?

I think, but not 100% sure Mike said it was the Pastor at Judah Praise that had a prophetic whatever and said he was a Apostle! Let me know if I am wrong on this one!

"Next is Paul does Mike have the same authority as pastor Mike, should he? If you say that (which clearly no one would say that Pastor Mike should have the same level of authority, because that would mean that he could write scripture)"

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Actually, I heard just that, last week. Seriously. Pastor Mike was "listed with the other apostles, his name simply hasn't been added to the scriptures yet". Tony too. This was passed down to a group from one of the elders.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2009 07:17AM by Brokenhearted.

Forgiveness 101, thanks for the posts. Your comments on the gifts bestowed on Mike because of the "honor" teachings are very similar to some of the postings on the RLc thread.

There is nothing wrong with honor as you so aptly point out. And you also point out some of the pitfalls associated with honor. What is the motive for the apostle to teach the followers about honor? Who stands to benefit from the teachings of honor as they are taught at TPc? What did Jesus have to say about honor?

This is a critical question. And, who should answer this question? Should Mike be the one to give the answer? Should Tony be the one to give the answer? In fact, we have Jesus, himself, to give us the answer. We do not have to depend upon Mike or Tony or any other person they will bring into the midst of the flock to teach. We have the Holy Bible and the Holy Spirit.

Hear God's Word-Listen to His Spirit and test everything.

There seems to be a tone deafness on the part of Mike and Cyndi. And no, I am not referring to the comment in an earlier post that said Cyndi sounds shrill when she sings.

I am referring to an apparent lack of understanding of how their flock has been impacted by the economy of late. First, they take a four month, all expense paid, sabbatical; they return and discuss gifts that have been bestowed upon them (or that they purchased); they invite Bob Harrison to come and speak and he tells folks that if they are not wealthy it is because they are not speaking the "right" words or confession-as though economics has nothing to do with money matters; they are expecting the church to send them on an all expense trip to Hawaii to hear more of Mr. Harrison's teaching.

All of these show an incredible lack of judgment and sensitivity to their flock, the majority who have been significantly impacted by our economic situation. Microsoft is laying off employees; Boeing is laying off employees; each of these companies are supported by several other companies in the area whom will experience the ripple effects of these layoffs. More and more members of TPc will feel the effects of the economy in very personal ways. And yet Mike and Cyndi seem to be oblivious to this reality.

As long as Mike and Cyndi continue to increase that's all that matters. Recession Proof your finances. Sounds good, but there was no meat on that plate. Did you learn anything that will help you to recession proof your finances? Did you learn how to put together a plan to eliminate your debt? Did he teach you about the wisdom of having an emergency fund? Did he tell you how to go about living within your means? Did he give you any insights into how to make your money go further during a recession? Did he give you insights in how to follow God when you have just received a pink slip? No, he told you to repeat a verse 10 times a day for 40 days. If you want to learn about these other things, just buy my book and purchase my tapes. No cash? Not to worry. We take credit cards.

So hows that working out for you? When the creditor calls asking when you plan to make the payment will you repeat the verse to the creditor? When you get the default statement on your mortgage, will you write that verse on the statement and hope that the bank takes it as payment? When the car payment comes due and you don't have enough money to make the payment, will you print up a bumper sticker with that verse and put it on your car? When you have no choice but to apply for food stamps because you don't have enough money to put food in your children's tummy will you write that verse on your application?

Sadly I am reminded of the story where Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers. "You have turned my Fathers house into a den of thieves." Would Jesus have commended Mike and Mr. Harrison or would he have turned over the tables?
Tone deaf.

I listened to Mr Harrison's message today.... well about half of it. I couldn't listen to anymore, as I was disgusted by it, for all of the reason's you listed. But also b/c the verse that he *challenges* the body to recite is taken out of context, and doesn't even mean what Mr. Harrison says it does. Litterally, listening to him speak made me ill.

I heard a number of people singing his praises over the weekend. Apparently, people were *counceled* by Cyndi to "just try it, and see if it works". Well, for a few, it seems to have worked right away, and now they are believers and followers of this doctrine.

I am so deeply saddened. I continue to pray for the flock, that they find their way back to Jesus.