Hi, I have concerns for a dear friend of mine who is involved in this group, his behavior has changed dramatically since becoming involved and he seems unable to talk about anything other than God. My concerns are not regarding the christian religion or teachings of the Bible however I am concerned that he seems to be mis-understanding the teachings in the Bible and I am concerned that the Elders of his congregation are not giving him truthful information. He has become very intense when talking about God etc, and I just wondered if anyone else had experiences of family, friends involved with this group. I feel that the people in his congregation are encouraging the strange behavior instead of encouraging him to turn to the teachings.

Having had a particularly bad experience with one section of this church, I discovered that a number of other peolple had also been challenged in such a way that they left under a cloud and found their whole spirituality put under threat. I have concluded that relatively poorly qualified people can take over ministry and place an increasing burden on often vulnerable people who seek to be saved. The answer would be much closer appraisal of these people in control much as happens in the UK with the medical profession. These right wing churches, (and synagogues and mosques) are a breeding ground for pastors who are narcissistic abusers who by virtue of their personality disorder "know" that they are always right and if that is backed up by their being appointed by God then this gives even more power and diminishes any possibilioty of questioning anything within their church.. The best advice from the literature on the subject is to leave such a community but get support from all around, something that can be very difficult for even the most stoical.

I was involved with Newfrontiers (NFI as it was then) for 2 years from 1996 to 1998 and agree with much of the above. Leaders within the organisation pick out a few select passages from the new testament and then regard these as a literal blueprint for how they should organise themselves. I had no experience of any religion before NF, and after realising what they were like I wondered initially whether my experience was a one-off or a peculiar feature of the local group that I was attending. I have since visited 3 other NF groups out of curiosity and found similar views expressed in all of them.

The main problems that I found were that the organisation doesn't tolerate much disagreement, and in common with other evangelical churches the new testament is regarded as the final authority on what everybody ought to believe and on how everybody ought to behave. Anybody who dissents or disagrees significantly with the party line is not welcome. Belief in the God-given authority of their leaders (men only) and belief in dark spiritual forces at work in the rest of society feature a lot in the theology of the organisation, both of which perhaps explain their attitude towards dissent. I believe that there is a tendency for members of the organisation to equate its own aims and objectives with God's aims and objectives, and therefore any criticism of them is regarded as opposition to God.

Their website has quite a few talks and papers that are very informative about where the organisation stands:

Attitude to scripture:
http://www.newfrontiers.xtn.org/resources/talks-and-preaches/select-speaker/wayne-grudem/

Attitude towards authority:
http://www.newfrontiers.xtn.org/uploads/Spiritual_Authority_updated___John_Groves___recd_5309.pdf

Talk on spiritual warfare (from an NF church website):
http://jubilee-church.org/sermons08/spiritual_warfare_TK.mp3

Hi Thanks for your input and I am sure Sarah-Jane will reflect on our commentary. I had come to exactly the same conclusion as yourself with regard to the way they perceive their actions and that of God are the same. Hence they are always right and everyone else is wrong. This sits at the heart of a narcissistic personality disorder in an individual. It is even more concerning when it sits at the core of institutional existence. My further experience is the inability to question anything and the total belief in the Apostolic Ministry of Men as you have so kindly found in the attached web site to your note. What NF just cannot see is that there preachings are prejudicial and prejudice against women is prejudice in the UK as much as it is in other parts of the world although obviously not at the same level as say Afghanistan. My advice to any normal human being who loves God, and cares for fellow humanity is to avoid this group of self deluded fideists and find a "Church" that truly cares about people as a whole and all its members however challenged and challenging they may be. NF may preach love but it is conditional love on their terms and not the biblical love that is so obvious to anyone with a mind to read and understand.

I know this is an old post but I wanted to reply because I grew up in the "new church movement", of which New Frontiers was a part of, and I had some horrific experiences there. I was prayed over and subjected to rituals similar to that of the toronto blessing. I had trance states induced and had convulsions as a result of 'laying hands'. I was told that if I ever left I would be a reprobate and God would punish me. I was told that every negative thing that happened was a result of me sinning. I witnessed people being hypnotised into trance-like states, laughing hysterically, having emotional outbursts, having fits, rolling on the floor, barking like dogs, speaking in tongues all which was attributed to the movement of the Holy Spirit. I went to a new church school so was completely emerge in the lifestyle. I was physically and sexually and spiritually abused and told that the devil was within me.

Hi Bea, I am sorry to hear of your experiences which are extreme even by my increasing awareness of some parts of NFI. The main question is whether or not you have either moved on and found solace elsewhere and if not , have you sought professional counselling. I am not a supporter of"Religious counselling" as many paople who set themselves up as religious counsellors are not properly trained in the psychological state, but again it all depends on the individual. I think the further difficult question for all who are abused reflects whether anything else should be done other than escape the abuser. I think if any criminal act is suggested then the only choice is official investigsation but this in itself can be very difficult as the Irish and US child abuse cases have proved. If the abuse is "just" controlling and threatening then it depends what controls exist such as regional assessors who could be approached to conduct an internal enquiry. The problem with NFI is that any complaint is regarded as rebellion (remember the Pastors and Elders are anointed by God). The article by Groves referred in earlier link regards "rebellion akin to witchcraft" - I kid you not. NFI rules indicate that complaints must come from more than 2 people and that those people must not have discussed with each other. One case i know about involved a group leader who took the worries of his group to the pastor who was only interested in who was complaining before forcing the group leader to leave the church. My advice is similar to that elsewhere. If you are lucky enough to realise you have been part of a controlling group then thank God you have found out and get as far a way from them as possible. Do not listen to the utter rubbish about God punishing you for leaving. The whole of the NT is full of love for all not punishment. There are a group of deranged people sadly leading a number of religious institutions who have no controls on them. Fortunately there are equally, many wonderful religious leaders who will offer support and sanctuary to all. Maybe faith can then be rekindled and even trust. CJ

Thanks Chris. I have avoided religion completely since leaving the church I grew up in. I was shunned because I began to experience mental health problems and listening to music regarded as sinful and because I harmed myself. Prior to this many attempts were made to 'heal' me and rid my heart of Satan through laying hands etc. Eventually I was too much of an embarrassment for my parents to take to church - I became just another example to other church-goers of what happens to you if you do not conform to spiritual authority (you become crazy/tormented/evil/demon-possessed). Soon after that i was admitted to an adolescent psychiatric unit, more 'proof' in their eyes of the consequences of leaving the church (rather than the consequences of a lifetime of psychological, spiritual, sexual and physical abuse). I've had counseling etc on and off since then, some has been helpful, some has not.

I am not surprised by your quote of "rebellion is akin to witchcraft". These people are not allowed to think for themselves. And it's all very well saying "leaders should care for the church"/"leaders should be good men", but that doesn't stop someone corrupt like my father who is a convincing character skilled at hypnosis/trance-inducing techniques faking 'spiritual gifts' and gaining unquestioned control of a large group of people.

A lot of brainwashing goes on. I did struggle for a long time thinking God was punishing me because I left the church and honestly thought I was going to hell for my sins. I don't believe that now. I am agnostic but believe if there is a God, he/she is a kind, caring, forgiving, loving and understanding one. And he/she certainly wouldn't agree with the practices of that church.

I did report my father to the police - I haven't seen him or my mother since i was 19 (I am 24 now). It was investigated for two years and he was arrested but there was not enough evidence for it to go to court - none of the witnesses that were spoken to would speak out. It was my word against his and nobody would back me up. Still, it's on record and if someone else breaks away and reports something to the police he'll be in trouble.

It sounds like you have a bit of knowledge of these churches. If you could tell me as much as you can I'd be grateful.

Bea

Hi Bea, Your experiences have been truly terrible. in any other field of endeavour their would be severe censure of those perpetrating but obviously when parents or family involved then their is little one can add. It is interesting that our society reflects so badly on say honour killings in other faiths or even arranged marriages but ignores the kind of abuse that you have suffered.

My research convinces me that churches and other religious groups that follow the apostolic ministry of men are those most likely but not exclusively to abuse. the victims usually but not always women, who have no redress and can find themselves very isolated if they object or raise questions. Remember only good believing people can be abused because if you did not care about your faith then you would not have been involved in the first place.

Some parents seem to feel that they must almost coerce their children into their own persuasion. I refer to children of Christian, Jewish, Moslem prents rather than Christian children. By all means educate but God gives all of us freewill. If that was not the case we would all be computers and if their is belief in the God model, then God knows all and would have known about computers from the beginning. in not making us all clones their will be differences in opinion and view etc The problem arises when fideistic people who usually have a personality disorder gain position of power or responsibility. They know they are right and wish to assert their authority. If backed up by like minded Elders then their really will be "Toxic Faith" as has been written about.

Not all New Frontiers Churches are the same. Each will depend on its leadership. If you ever feel you want to rejoin a community check how many members have left, speak openly to the Pastor and listen carefully to the response. If their is total acceptance of what you say then you may have found what you need. If their is any attempt to explain the behaviour of others - keep looking. Love is the key word for all of us both in relation to God and between each other. No one knows what is Gods will for any of us. the abusers beliece they know and only they have the true path. In my opinion this is bunk. You will never convince these terrible people otherwise, do noy even try it is a waste of energy. Just move on with your life as you have done. CJ

Hello Chris and thanks for your reply.

I wouldn't join a church of any sort now because it is too upsetting for me. I can't even cope with reading the bible because I get flashbacks and it reminds me of things that scare me. I did go to a unitarian church a couple of times but I didn't feel comfortable there either. My views of religion are warped due to it being intertwined with the physical and sexual abuse my parents inflicted on me and the twisted morals/ignorance of the church I grew up in. I have my own beliefs unique to me and I worship privately in my own way and I try to be a good person. I do believe other churches could be different and believe they have the best interests at heart. I will take note of your advice about checking how many folk have left, talking to the pastor etc if i do feel I'd like to join a community - thanks.

The more people I tell about my upbringing the more I encounter reactions similar to yours - people of the opinion that what I went through was terrible etc. It's strange because all that time I honestly thought it was normal and only realized in my mid teens that it wasn't! So to see it for what it was is a bit overwhelming sometimes.

Do you think that the apostolic ministry of men somehow warps peoples minds and causes them to abuse or do you think it attracts people likely to abuse?

Hi Bea,

I hope I did not give wrong impression. I was not suggesting that you needed to do anything. In fact very much the reverse. The most important consideration I think is to work out what are your needs and how best to achieve. there is nothing wrong with that. If you are more comfortable in your own space then so be it. No one can or should tell you what to do. If at some stage in the future those needs include rejoining a group, community or church then you will I hope do so on your terms, be alert to the real and caring and then use your life experiences to assist others.

Your feelings that all was normal is again typical and part of the "brain washing" process. Very difficult to overcome and it will take a long time to dilute in your mind. When you get those negative feelings try and say to your self how fortunate you have been to see the reality and restart the living process.

Your final question is right on the nail. To misquote, "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely". This suggests that people change with the power given rather than the "Servant Leadership" that should follow appointment to a lead role in ministry. However, I have a particular interest in Personality Disorders, do read about them to give insight if you are not aware. The Narcissistic Personality disorder is particularly unpleasant if you are "the Source Supply" to use the technical term, ie the Victim. These people are attracted to positions of power over other people. They are very sick and have no empathy for others at all and yet will be intelligent and often come over extremely well to those who are not the victim/s. If annointed by God to be an Elder or pastor (or other religious leader), this is a recipe for disaster. So the simple answer is both but I think the real abusers are sick to start!.

All the best for the future

CJ