Thanks Chris,

Don't worry, you didn't give the wrong impression.
I have been in the past diagnosed with "borderline personality disorder" so i have read into personality disorders quite a bit. I think you are right that certain personality disorders would make a person attracted to positions of power (narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder) - I think you're on to something there. I am of the opinion that the people in these churches are not mentally very well, not just the Elders but the members, too, I think they are either mentally vulnerable or very young and that's why they get sucked in.

You seem quite interested in the subject. I've found an online forum called "ex-pentecostal forums" that might interest you. It is for people who have left pentecostal/charismatic/fundamentalist/evangelical churches and have suffered bad experiences in them. There are a few people there from the UK who have been involved in the vineyard movement, the toronto blessing, the british new church movement etc. Most others have been part of other churches, mostly american, but their experiences are very similar. If you want to check it out the URL is [expentecostalforums.yuku.com]

I went to a new frontiers church, someone is putting together a blog which includes the British new Church movement [controversialchurchmovement.blogspot.co.uk]

unfortunately some people backed out of reporting the child abuse as they have been rewarded a house and/or other perks

Although my present church is not a one, I have been an active member of a couple of Newfrontiers Churches. I was with NFI for many years, and I did not personally encounter any of the experiences mentioned above. However, someone I know well was once a member of a Newfrontiers Church in different part of the country and she did encounter heavy-handed leadership. The 'elder' concerned was definitely not open to hearing her opinion on the matter in question, nor was he prepared to consider any compromise. Despite the fact that the cause of dispute was none of his business, he simply adopted an attitude of do as I say, otherwise you're not welcome here and there's the door. The result, of course, was she did exactly what I would have done: she walked through the door and has never gone near that church again. Sadly she was completely closed to God for many years as a result. When I happened to meet the 'elder' concerned a couple of years later, and mentioned the lady to him, he seemed quite embarrassed.

To tar all Newfrontiers Churches with the same brush however, is unfair. I have encountered several where this is not the case. My personal opinion and experience is that irrespective of denomination, each individual church should be considered on its own merits. There can be tremendous differences between churches within the same denomination, be they Roman Catholic, Anglican, Baptist, Methodist, United Reform, Newfrontiers, Pentecostal, or whatever. In the end, if you find yourself in a church where a leader (or leaders) is (or are) being unreasonably controlling, or acting in an improper manner, irrespective of what he (or they) may think, the ultimate authority lies you. You have the right to walk out of the door and shake the dust off your feet.

GordonWind:

The key issue in finding a safe place of worship is accountability.

Is there a constitution and bylaws that provide for democratically elected church government?

Can an elected board hire and fire anyone (e.g pastor) on staff? Does an elected board manage and control church assets and contributions?

Is there meaningful financial transparency through a regularly independently audited and published budget distributed to all contributors that discloses in detail all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from church funds?

If these safeguards are not in place then there is meaningful accountability.

Most Protestant churches have such safeguards.

Gordon, my friend, I have to fundamentally disagree with you on the point of being free to leave and shaking the dust off your feet.
I wish I was that level-headed. I know many who are not. Add in the fear that you will be especially punished by God for leaving or questioning; then you create the perfect conditions for a certain type of person to become enmeshed, enslaved, controlled.
Age and knowledge are no protection against this form of mind control. And in the end, when you call that ambulance because you think it's a heart attack, but the paramedic says, jokingly, you're fine...you just have demons. Oh really? So a diazepam can beat up a demon..lol
It's fear that controls and bad leaders know it. You are lucky if you are more psychologically robust than me. I had a choice: Get busy living without God or kill myself trying to please him. Because, if I was being told the truth by the leaders (his appointed leaders) then the sin within me was like an inoperable cancer. I was told to try harder for deliverance, I didn't want it bad enough, I loved my sins too much...etc.. Blah....
I live alone now...thank-you disgraceful leaders of churches who are predatory and heartless. I may not believe in heaven, but I will see you all in hell.

Apologies for delay in replying. I did attempt to reply the day after Ifelaway's post but it seems to have disappeared into the ethos, so I will try again.

In response to rrmoderator's points: Naturally I can only speak of my own personal experiences. I have been a member of two newfrontiers churches over a number of years, and in both churches all of the points you raise were in place. In the case of the last newfrontiers church I was elected honorary treasurer, and the full accounts were available for scrutiny by any member at any time, and these of course included salaries and expences. The accounts were presented in full annually at the AGM, and were sent to both the charity commission and to companies house, in accordance with legislation.

I read Ifellaway's response with sadness. I am saddened that you have been treated in such a way. My apologies for my thoughtless response of 'being free to leave and shaking the dust off your feet,' and thank you for pointing out that not everyone is able to do that. Clearly the place you attended was different to the newfrontiers churches that I have experienced, and your experience distresses me. I am aware that there are church leaders in many denominations who exercise what used to be known as heavy shepherding. In other words, to put it bluntly, they poke their noses into areas of members' lives where they have no business, and I have known of church splits because of such behaviour. I have experienced such behaviour from one church minister (not in newfrontiers) myself. He attempted to give a lady member a public rebuke in a Sunday service. I stood and objected to his behaviour, and when he then attempted to rebuke me as well I publicly tendered my own and my family's resignations, bid him farewell and we left there and then, in the middle of the service. I wrote a letter of complaint to the denomination's headquarters but no investigation was carried out, nor was any action taken. I agree with you that leaders such as this, who exercise psychological control are indeed bad leaders. All leaders have a duty of care, and are answerable to God for that care. The bible does say that if one causes one of these to stumble it would be better for them to have a millstone tied around their neck and be cast into the sea.

Gordon, sorry, I totally didn't mean you are thoughtless. I am just trying to expand on the whole mental health issue.
As in: there are several personality types that are easily preyed on and damaged. The predators themselves we descibe as personality disorders too.
I've been getting treatment for anxiety for 10 years though hid symptoms for way longer.
Bea, can I just say how sick to the core it makes me to hear what you say here. I am so sorry for you and angered by your treatment and apparent lack of justice. I might be faithless, but I have to believe the big wheel turns for all. Perhaps you may still get justice. It is a testiment to the goodness in you, that you walk onwards. Respect and love to you.
What I am experiencing is that I just can't chill out. Relaxation initiates panic sensations and overwhelming dread. I got caught hiding all the knives, scissors etc one night. I thought a horrible thought and began to fear that it was a compelling voice. I'm a bit more in control now but still have so many phobias/neuroses that agoraphobia is actually an acceptable lifestyle...for now.
It was subtle...but we were encouraged not to try for physical comfort when in prayer. In fact comfort of any kind wasn't really meant for us, in this life. We had to earn it by doing the will of the "annointed".
I wonder if this is a common form of programming young or susceptible minds. I noticed different results in other people but none of it was beneficial, except for control, of course.. Some get out clean. But I've even noticed that many life-long members are mentally ill. Of course, it would be a sign of sin to take medicine for head problems, so they suffer or secretly gett medical help. I have witnessed people having seizures (in the presnce of children..) and these leaders just pray louder. This is so risky it beggars belief.
I know we don't have it here, but I recently heard of a legality in Germany dubbed "the Samaritan Law". If you deliberately ignore an injured person you can be charged for it as a crime. Punishments can be severe if your inaction leads to serious injury or death. Well we might not have a law to cover it, but even I knew as a 10 year-old, that a fit really rates a 999 call.
Anyway, it took me too long to make a link. I am only just starting to look at life properly now.

Thank you for reopening concerns over some NFI churches and the way they are administered. I have no connection to the moderator but can only endorse the comments made. Few level headed people would tar all religious leaders in any faith with the same brush as those who abuse. The problem however as in other fields is the alacrity shown by some leaders towards the power invested in them. The ability to prey on the vulnerable rather than pray never ceases to astonish. What I have said repeatedly is that ministry attracts abusive people and those of a narcissistic nature and then there seems to be no mechanism in some groups to adequately regulate, control or protect those that need help.

My own work shows that abusive leaders using the NFI notion of male leadership and anointment by God means they have total power particularly over women. Clearly this is not all churches within the group and I have had contact with an NFI church leader who thought such individuals were a cancer that needed to be cut out. The problem would seem the absence of a suitable surgeon metaphorically speaking.

Western governments I think need to take political ownership and put in place the same regulatory authority as is being developed in medicine, accounting etc Until this happens the deeply faithful will be highly vulnerable and many will not have the courage of GW to walk away. As an outsider I offered to appear before a NF elders team and challenge them on behalf of a member - my offer was rejected. Truth fears no questions.

To anyone who has been challenged please try and get help. Find where there is basic decency towards others by a supportive and caring leadership. These churches do exist and will be rewarding in every way. The only role of an institution is to give love and support. That does not mean condoning serious crime where prayer and love can still be offered; it is after all the role of society to generate punishment through the legal system.