I used to be a member of New Song. I left because I found them to be rather immature spiritually and too pleased with themselves. Yes, there are cultish elements there, but that's true of any group of people committed to following Christ. After all, we're described in the Scriptures as 'aliens and strangers' here on earth.

BrianWA:

The subject of this thread is not a debate about the KJV.

Please stay on topic.

I've got to give an honest opinion about the destructiveness of this church. It doesn't make any sense to pull punches anymore. This church is not good for anyone. What little charity this church supposed produces is greatly outweighed by the potential damage it can produce in people's lives. Certain people may be predisposed towards mental conditions and some may not, but I believe the way this church is ran (at least from my personal experience) definately push someone over the edge. Churches like this should not exist and the longer they exist the more damage they do. When one person's life is damaged it doesn't just hurt them, it hurts their whole family. The church is a cult in every sense of the word. It insinuates that missing hands and arms will grow back if the flock is faithful. It claims that its leaders have cured cancer through their faith. To those who feel hopelessly single it promises marriage. It does this by making claims that God himself is speaking to individuals verbatum to through its members. This is extremely dangerous to the mental stability of anyone who buys into it. Once an individual buys into this they will be fanatically loyal to the church.

I've been hoping for some more current information about City Central/Catalyst and msg1973 has offered us some current insights. Thank you. This is relevant to me because my daughter heard through a friend about this church and Catalyst Program..so she took off from California to enroll. I have hardly heard from her by phone/email/text since she left! She called and said she is kept busy praying, church meetings all day and all night. I "get" the 24/7 prayer watches..comes form Mike Bickle IHOP. In the first 4 days she was there, I asked if she had read her bible, she said NO. (red flag) The money she needed to raise to attend the Catalyst Program had to be funneled through our church here in Calif. (red flag) Do they not have a Tax ID? I telephoned their phone number on the website and left a very detailed message with my return phone number. I have never received a call back (red flag) They have no "building" per say, the phone went to a message phone with a lady's voice on it. Brian Brennt's message of Sunday night, 6/7/09 had right across the top..these notes compiled from Bob Jones. (red flag) I can't even figure out if Bob Jones-the so called prophet-has passed away in real life or not? At least Brennt gave reference to Jone's stuff at the top of the 6 page sermon notes. All this to say, my daughter is there, in Tacoma, and in my opinion, being sucked into this
"New Wave" Movement. Any suggestions for me thus far would help. Thank you :)

Myspace...I don't know anything about Catalyst other than it looks like a copy of YWAM. However, I'm not surprised that you're not hearing from your daughter. And I'm not surprised you've heard nothing back from CC. If you read the whole thread you'll know why.

I don't have any suggestions for other than do everything you can to stay connected to your daughter, and pray for her wisdom and discernment. Don't ignore the red flags.

Thank you moderator for keeping the thread on track.

BrianWA...this goes way beyond "cultish". It's spiritual abuse.

cgj

Thank you cgj. I am searching scripture, praying for my daughter. My worst fears are coming true thus far. She's going through the Freedom Manual, has 2 quarters to go before she graduates from a Major Calif. State University and someone has prophesied that at least 3 people will stay at CC in Washington after the program is over. She's wondering if one of them might be her? She is being housed in a host family's home with another girl who moved from Florida. The website states that a trip to Africa is planned. However, as of Sunday, (June 21,2009) no airline tickets have been purchased and no solid dates have been set! (red flag) I have know many who have gone on YWAM mission trips and I do not beleive these are the same type thing at all. I don't recall the prophetic movement (Kansas City Prophets) or IHOP 24/7 Prayer being modeled by YWAM. City Central has a great big large sheet that people are supposed to sign up on for times of praying. If you look at their website, the Brennt's and others are opeing up their homes for 12 hour shifts for people to come in whenever they have signed up. I am not judging this as bad, just writing out to offer information about things that are current at CC.

The Freedom Manual is anything but. I was around Clover Creek (now Destiny) and New Song when it was being written and it's nothing but a works-based model. Bascially it lists a major "stronghold", like "insecurity" or "rebellion" or "disbelief" or "religious sprit", and then lists all the ways that this stronghold can manifest itself. A person is to submit to a "prayer team" to prophetically determine what stronghold the prayer-ee is struggling with. Sometimes it's prophecied that the stronghold is personal, other times it's supposedly generational (as in being guilty of an ancestor's sin...not just struggling with a similar sin, but actually being GUILTY of the sin). The prayer-ee then must confess, repent, yell at demons, etc. to be "free" of the stronghold. The sad and horrifying part is that the next time you have any struggle or tempation you immediately think your prayer time didn't take and that you lacked faith. So you get more prayer...the prayer time becomes your source of salvation, not Jesus. Also, you live in fear that a leader is going to prophetically "get something" on you. One of their favorites is to use "rebellion" or "disbelief" if you question ANYTHING a leader says.

I do believe there are followers of Christ at that church. I pray for them and I'll pray for your daughter.

cgj

Thank you very much cgj. I value your words and wisdom thus far. It's been just over a week and our daughter is now questioning (bringing to others in prayer) whether she'll come back to California or not to complete her 4 yr. College Degree at a top Univ.(she has 2 quarters left)~if she should stay with her Christian boyfriend who she talked of marrying in 2010 when they both graduate with degrees. Whether she'll be able to duplicate the "move" and "experiences" she is having in Tacoma down here at the church she attends in Calif. ...the list goes on and on.
My background~Hubby and I have been married 25 years this year, we met at a Prayer meeting :), married after both of us got college degrees. We both were Christians years before we met. I found the Vineyard Movement and was part of John Wimber's meetings in the mid-70's. Hubby too so our paths crossed in college. We married and stayed in the Vineyard for years. The Prophetic movement came along in the 80's so I have physically been in meetings with Bob Jones, Rick Joyner, Paul Cain, John Arnot, Che Ann (Pasadena) Mike Bickle, IHOP etc. We raised our kids with the Ezzo's Growing Kid's God's Way...back to CC...I wonder what "Generational Sins and Bondages" she'll be hit with? She is seeking answers from the "pray-ers" at this time and I truly believe she's going to change her whole life based on what these people are telling her. My husband is such a great man..he says "She's smarter than that!" I tend to be more negative so I will continue to seek God in scripture and pray for our precious daughter.

I just took a few minutes to listen to one of Pastor Brian Brennt's sermons online. He is clearly articulating C. Peter Wagner's New Apostolic Reformation speak and Dutch Sheets' prayer perspectives (he seems to be almost plagerizing from Sheets, in fact). Does he fancy himself an apostle for this "age" by any chance?

Oh! You guys need to be savvy about what C. Peter Wagner's New Apostolic reformation agenda is. I didn't know about it until I got sucked into a bunch of false teachings along these lines and began to google "buzz phrases" and found out why my "gut" (the red flags the Holy Spirit was raising) was roiling with aversion.

I post on another thread b/c I was part of another church. But I came on here (your thread) curious to know if there were similarities. I'm seeing that SO MANY CHURCHES ARE INFECTED WITH THESE TEACHINGS. This church is one of them. HEADS UP, my friends--dear brothers and sisters!

Check out deceptioninthechurch.com to get started on your reasearch if you're interested.

May God's Spirit lead you into all truth. He's faithful.

PS: What is this "fruit" we're pointing to for evidence that the ministry is valid? There will be some people whom Jesus will turn away on the day of reckoning--some of these people will be ones who say they've prophsied, healed, done miracles, etc., in His name. He'll tell them to depart, that He never knew them. The fruit of the Spirit is love, JOY, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

A worldly organization can open a homeless shelter. Here's what I'm deeply convinced of after my exerience with my former church: If the focus is prayer or deliverance or anything other than Jesus and His gospel, the church is off track. THAT'S biblical.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2009 01:49PM by LearningPoint.

PS again: Part of grooming congregations for the New Apostolic Reformation teachings is to denounce over and over the "ineffectiveness" of the "old wineskins"--the old models of church. It was ALL OVER this sermon I listened to.