Re: New Song City Central - Tacoma, WA
Posted by: JeepersJulie ()
Date: November 24, 2007 06:06AM

Don't most organizations that give out food, clothes, etc. require you to "attend church" to continue to receive from them? There are many ministries in Washington that are not dissimilar to what you are describing in Tacoma.

Re: New Song City Central - Tacoma, WA
Posted by: lamisa22 ()
Date: April 24, 2008 02:41AM

I'd like to add a little to the topic of these three churches: New Song City Central, Crossing Community Services, and Destiny City Church (formerly Clover Creek Bible Fellowship)

I was a member and actively involved in all three of these churches (mainly New Song and the Crossing) for two years. I moved to Washington state to be a member there and immediately moved into a ministry house owned and run by the church where I paid rent and was expected to give all of my time outside of my secular job to the ministry.

These churches use their teaching of "Hearing God's Voice" abusively and to control their members. For example: if you are a person who desires to know and love Jesus and someone tells you that what they are directing you to do is FROM God, then you are obligated in your heart to do as they tell you b/c the church teaches that otherwise you are in "Rebellion".

Also, for anyone who is exiting this group of churches or has family members who are, I HIGHLY recommend review Robert Lifton's Eight Criteria for a group that uses thought reform and coercive persuasion, because these three churches meet EVERY single one of these criteria. Becoming aware of these criteria and spending time in the Word is what finally got me out.

And once I became aware of HOW in control of my life and my mind these churches were, I was so afraid that I fled in the middle of the night, b/c I KNEW that if I spoke to leadership they would tell me that the "Enemy was trying to deceive me" and I would have stayed!! They owned me!! I had given them all of myself.

In their "prayer times" where they claim to "hear from God", which I believe is truly a spirit of divination, they expect the person being prayed for to be as vulnerable as possible and in the time there I Shared the deepest parts of who I am as a believer and as a human being with these leaders. I could not make any major, or really any minor decisions without getting their approval.

It is an incredibly Subtle form of Manipulation. All of the rules (as in most cults and controlling groups) are unspoken. Most likely NO ONE in the church would ever tell you outright that to leave the church you are turning your back on God. It is an unspoken rule. The members all think it. Whether they admit it or not, if they questioned whether they should remain there or not, they would stay due to the fact that they felt if they were leaving they were "turning away from God" and would not experience "true freedom" that only their church offers.

Also, the material that they claim to have written themselves called now "the Freedom Manual" is all stolen from Neil T Anderson and his Freedom in Christ Material.

As someone previously posted, there is no true freedom in these churches, just a deeper and deeper dependence on these churches, the leaders, and the "revelation" from their prayer times.

I know many people are finally getting out of the churches, praise God.

I have been gone for one year and it has been very painful as I was cut off from all of my friends in the church and labeled a heretic, simply for leaving. My husband and I were slandered publicly from the pulpit.

These three churches are SPIRITUALLY ABUSIVE and from all understanding that I have come too, they Are a CULT.

They have damaged hundreds and hundreds of lives, families, and marriages.

My heart has been so broken. I entered these churches passionate for Christ, I was deceived by their teachings, and the less passionate I was about Jesus, the more they affirmed me.

It is a bait and switch, you go in looking for Jesus, and one day when you have given them your time, your identity, your passion, your hope, your life truly, you look up and see that Jesus is no where to be found in that church.

And for the people who have asked about church splits, the church has split, it used to be three churches unified and due to the fact that the pastors cannot agree about anything they have gone their separate ways.

Oh and one more thing, the pastors of New Song City Central have recently been holding meetings for people who have questions, and when the members arrive at the meeting they are told that they are not to question anything and if they want to they are welcome to leave.

I'll have more soon, but this is all I have time to post today.

Anyone who is coming out of these three churches may find the book "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" by Jeff VanVonderen and Dave Johnson extremely helpful. It has really helped me in recovering my faith from the abuse that I underwent in these churches..

Also, counseling with a good Christian counselor is just about a must, its ok, but I know... it is so hard to leave, I was only there two years and I know there are some wonderful people there who love Jesus who have been there much longer than I was that are leaving and I am so sorry for the pain I know they must be enduring.

Re: New Song City Central - Tacoma, WA
Posted by: lamisa22 ()
Date: April 24, 2008 02:49AM

One thing I would like to add that is certainly a warning sign for any Christians who are concerned about this is this:

This whole movement "the Jesus Ministry" movement, began with the Pastors wife having a vision of two "angels".

Remind you of any other groups?

Re: New Song City Central - Tacoma, WA
Posted by: cgj ()
Date: April 30, 2008 02:55AM


Even though I went through much of what you describe I'm still so sorry it happened to you and your husband.

We left Clover Creek right about the time you started getting involved...sounds like nothing has changed!!

"The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" was incredibly helpful to my husband and me. It was hard to read some of it, though, and have to admit that we'd been involved in a cultish church. It was also painful/humbling to have family members tell us they couldn't stomach the Clover, would never attend it again, thought it was a cult, and were worried for us. This from people we thought we were spiritually superior to!! We were so wrong.

Stay in the Word (not someone's "word") and know why you believe what you believe. Sounds like you're on some steady feet, albeit battleworn. I'll be praying for you.


Re: New Song City Central - Tacoma, WA
Posted by: CrazyLady98405 ()
Date: December 05, 2008 05:04AM

A lot of what Grabriel wrote is false. I'm not attacking him. But....
You posted in 2007 saying you were at the church for 5 years? New Song isn't that old. You must have gone to Clover Creek. Also, their curriculum is not from YWAM. They have their own production company, Revalesio Ministries. []
Also, your passion and multiple posts are frightening. I dislike the way New Song is so passionate about "New Song" and not the Lord.

Re: New Song City Central - Tacoma, WA
Posted by: cgj ()
Date: December 05, 2008 06:12AM

Revalesio *used* to be co-run by the trio of Clover/Destiny, Crossing, and New Song. At least it was when we went there. Now it seems to be soley under the control of New Song. We were told by leadership that "revalesio" meant "hope restored" in Italian. We looked it's the name of a river in Italy and that's about it. It has nothing to do with hope or restoration. Another lie to add to the pile.

New Song has been around for about 10 used to meet on Saturday evening at the old Clover Creek building in Spanaway before it moved to downtown Tacoma.


Re: New Song City Central - Tacoma, WA
Posted by: Simeon ()
Date: April 25, 2009 11:27AM

I am not, and never have been, a member of City Cental, New Song, Clover Creek, Destiny Church, Trinity, or part of Ravalesio, or the Crossing.

I have been following and studying these ministries for several years. There are many discrepancies that concern me and should concern the Tacoma Christian community. There are many areas of their ministry that are deceptive and not Biblical, but use mind control tactics to influence and manipulate their members.

I have witnessed many of the examples you have given and then some. It is very hard for them to believe their leadership could be corrupt. Even the leadership may not know they are corrupt. This is a scarey situation.

Re: New Song City Central - Tacoma, WA
Posted by: CrazyLady98405 ()
Date: May 05, 2009 03:05AM

Has anyone heard anything from or about New Song recently? I know that they changed their name to just "City Central" as seen on their building on 6th Avenue. I also know that a lot of people have left. A LOT! I thin their attendance is less than 200 now. What happened?

Re: New Song City Central - Tacoma, WA
Posted by: cgj ()
Date: May 10, 2009 05:15AM is indeed frightening for all of the reasons you stated: deception, lies, manipulation, mind control. I agree that they may not realize they're corrupt because they've been living the lie so long (both leadership and congregants).

CL98405...I have no idea what's going on at City Central. For a while I wondered if they were defunct , but now it seems they're trying to start their own form of YWAM called "Catalyst". I have heard second-hand that many are leaving CC and Destiny, but nothing first-hand. I am in contact with some who attend Destiny but the issue of "church" is avoided for the most part.


Re: New Song City Central - Tacoma, WA
Posted by: BrianWA ()
Date: June 01, 2009 05:39AM

I happen to read the KJV Bible. I notice our daughter reads all kinds of bibles, other than the KJV. emily

I'm curious, why do you think the KJV is the only legitimate English-language version of the Scriptures? At the time it was translated into English it most certainly was, but the language has changed since then. We're told that the Word is living and active, not static and fixed in time. Insisting on KJV-only seems too much like idolatry. Obviously, if you can understood and learn from it, then it's valuable, but that's a far cry from implying all other translations are less worthy or valuable for attaining godliness. In fact, that's al most cultish in and of itself.

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