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TurningPointReject
hi whatajoke,

Sabbatical is common practice among many churches- though not all. Typically sabbatical takes place only after a pastor has served 7 to 10 years at the local church. Sabbatical comes from the same word we get sabbath from and literally means time of rest and renewal. It is not out of the ordinary that mike would be granted a sabbatical by his church after serving there for 12 years. He may have even been granted one around the 6 or 7 year mark as well. But again this is not unusual for many churches.

Some churches place stipulations on how the time is to be used. For example some churches state in their bylaws that sabbatical is to be used for time of study and learning. Many pastors will use their sabbatical for furthering their education (i.e attending a school to complete work on their Master degree or doctorate). My pastor has took a three month sabbatical and used the time for prayer, study, and renewal.

TPR........... You have been a great contributor on here. I have great respect for what you have to say on here. However I do not agree with the modern day interpretation by churches of sabbatical by the that aand the way they are putting it into practice. I try to think outside the box on most things and the starting point is usually my discernement and foundation as to what is morally or ethically right. Alot of times it is the holy spirit speaking to me in which cases I will search scripture to affirm that it is the word of god in fact. Here is a very brief explanation of my understanding of sabbaticals. Brief for now as my thoughts are not totally organized and I am in the middle of many other things right now. Please help me if I do not make sense. I do not want to turn this forum into an argument over sabbaticals but really believe that if a pastor needs a 4 month sabbatical away from the church he leads then either he is not managing his time appropriately during the week or there is something grossly wrong. I also believe the time period is a factor as if he was on a 4 week sabbatical it would be more reasonable that it was a vacation or time of renewal.

I look at the scriptural basis for sabbatical and see the current application as a great example of how man and the modern church has twisted scripture by adding and taking away.

There are two words referred to in the bible. I will not go into the etymology at this time but the two words are Sabbath and Sabbatical. If in fact we are dealing with the word sabbath it refers to taking a day off for rest and renewal. If your pastor was following biblical principal regarding this he would be taking a day off during the week for renewal and refreshment which in all cases is reasonable.

The other word refers to sabbatical year. This refers to the uncultivating of the land by the jews. That the owner of the land shall neither sow nor reap the benefits of the land but the entire community will. The owner of the land must rely on the abundance of god.

This is a very short explanation based on my biblical understanding of sabbatical. I do not see how the biblical examples of sabbath and sabbatical translate to pastors taking 4 months off for renewal. This is an academic and corporate practice. While I agree the words exist and their foundation is in the bible, I also believe that organized and corporate religion have made it their own. They have redefined it. I totally believe that time off during the week for renewal is helpful. Afterall Jesus retreated at times to renew himself. I also believe that pastors are entitled to vacations and periodic rest time. However a 4 month sabbatical is excessive and I do not believe has an adequate scriptural basis.

I hope I am not being to contentious. I just wanted to present a different way of looking at this rather than looking at your church and saying they do it or saying alot of churches do it. Through this whole mess with RLC God has done a great work in me. He has instilled in me a fervent desire to seek the truth of his word and not the truth or error of mans interpretation and practice of his word. I hope this makes sense.

Thanks for the remarks, whatajoke. I appreciate you and your contributions as well. See this link for more discussion on pastoral sabbatical: [www.lifeway.com]

Keep the faith,

TPR

thanks TPR. I read the link.

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Forgiveness_101
He ~T~

I would just like to take the time to say that i have been attending TP which is where Pastor Mike is pastoring
and is teaching SOMA. Where once our church was heavily influenced by Pastor Tony and is shannagins, as far as i know now that we are not connected, if i am wrong i will write back.

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Transparent
Here is a video of Pastor Mike Villamor (Tony's Clone in another state)

These guys are connected to Tony and it is obvious

[youtube.com]

Forgiveness_101
i have watched this video several times but the image that keeps haunting me is how Cindi chews her gum when Mike is talking. Her body language does not match up with what she says (my humble opinion). Then how she jumps in talking about selling 600 CD's like that is the most important item on the agenda the $$$.

Well given what your experience i can see why you would have those reactions...

And the fact that they are loosely connected with Tony makes you sick

I could understand that especially after some of the stuff you have described

I know it looks bad... but really they do love God.


Ps... the art of being in video productions sometimes you don't have the best responses or the
best quality and that's all really you have to work with. Although i do not believe that to be truth in this case
as we would want to show our best foot on the web.

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BraveHeart

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Forgiveness_101
He ~T~

I would just like to take the time to say that i have been attending TP which is where Pastor Mike is pastoring
and is teaching SOMA. Where once our church was heavily influenced by Pastor Tony and is shannagins, as far as i know now that we are not connected, if i am wrong i will write back.

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Transparent
Here is a video of Pastor Mike Villamor (Tony's Clone in another state)

These guys are connected to Tony and it is obvious

[youtube.com]

Forgiveness_101
i have watched this video several times but the image that keeps haunting me is how Cindi chews her gum when Mike is talking. Her body language does not match up with what she says (my humble opinion). Then how she jumps in talking about selling 600 CD's like that is the most important item on the agenda the $$$.

Thanks for posting again, Forgiveness. I viewed the video and my impression is Cyndi just feels self conscience on film. I didnt really see it in the same light as my friend BraveHeart.

Now I must take you to task but I do it out of love: You referred to Mike and Cyndi as being "loosely" connected with Tony. Do you truly believe that is an accurate representation of their relationship? Come, now. Really?

Mike and Cyndi have known Tony for well over 20 years. Tony was Mike's youth pastor; Tony has been Mike's personal mentor for at least 10 years if not more. Mike sees Tony as his "spiritual father"; Mike models much of his ministry and style after Tony; Mike has adopted the very same SOMA model used in RLC; Tony has frequently taught in various settings at Turning Point; all of this and yet you refer to this as a "loose connection"?

Why is it that there are those who want to deny what is obvious. What is there to gain by declaring no association or minimal association or lose association when facts don't support such assertions? To do so only cause people to wonder...why try to hide this relationship? These acts go much further to cast a bad light on those who speak for your church than do the youtube videos.

Please reconsider your assertion that the relationship with Tony is a "loose" association.

Again, Thank you for posting here. You are articulate and what you share is valuable. I look forward to seeing more from you.

Forgiveness_101

I have never questioned there love for God

But do not be deceived you may think that are loosely connected to Tony. That some how they can manage the relationship. That they can weed through all his falseness and some how remain unscathed by his deceitfulness.

YES I have great concerns with anyone being remotely connected to Tony Cunningham. Tony is very aggressive and controlling and you can not have a conversation with him with out him controlling the situation and conversation. I challenge you to seek him out when he comes up to Turning Point to do a "Strategic Advance" seminar. His material is simply rewashed Anthony Robins motivational crap. Where did God ask us to to be the ones who come up with what his will is? Is God so busy that he need people like Tony to help plan a spiritual advance?

I remember the prayer
Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.....
The focus should be listing to the voice of our heavenly Father not the voice of this false apostle who scatters his destruction where ever he goes.
So inviting Tony to come up to your church expecting the members to surrender there ears to his teaching is a very dangerous position especially if you are one in leadership allowing this fraud into your church to broadcast his deceptive seeds among your body.

The real apostle John wrote to the early church 1 John 4:1-6
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

There is no question that there is a close relationship.

We went to TP from 1998-2001, when Tony first came up to promote SOMA. We were part of the church when there was no connection to Tony, after he had given Mike advice, that Mike refused to take and there were years of no talking. I have that on record from Tony and have talked to Mike about it. Mike was always full of passion for God and was a true worshiper. After Tony came up, Mike, Jeff and and a few others urged us to consider going to SOMA. We moved to RLC to do so. We sat under Tony's teaching for 2 1/2 years and I can tell you, what you are describing in Mike is the "DNA" of Tony, in his very words. The weekend our 1st child was born Mike and Cyndi were in Sacramento and came and met us for Coffee in Old Sacramento. Mike held my child and told me that Tony had just made him a spiritual son. He was so in awe, impressed with the gravity of the honor that had been bestowed on him. After knowing the "old Mike" and hearing things that are going on at TP, there is no doubt in my mind that Mike is a clone of Tony. It breaks my heart to hear that this is true, but those who are there should be warned that Mike hasn't gone out in the deep end as much as Tony has, but unless God open's their eyes and there is brokenness before God, Mike will go even more astray from scripture and become even more controlling and power hungry. Pray! that God would open Mike's eyes and soften his heart during his sabatical.

Here is a short list of traits that Tony bestows on his sons and followers
Buisness savy ideas/greed for wealth
Teaching honor to those are to give the honor - resulting in personal gain/promotion
Teaching spiritual parenting - removing the authority of your parents and putting oneself under some else's spiritual authority, for the goal of a greater spiritual inheritance
Discipleship that extends far beyond helping people follow God, more into helping people follow the ways of the leader
Generosity of the people, to the leaders benefit

Mentors beget mentorees; teachers beget students; the student becomes like the teacher. Who is your teacher? Who has mentored the one who teaches you? Show me who your mentor is and I will know who you are.

Jesus said, in Matthew, 24"A student is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. 25It is enough for the student to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub, how much more the members of his household!

26"So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.

And again in Luke, 39He also told them this parable: "Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.

Know who teaches your teacher. Their DNA will infect your lifeblood.