Re: Why are family members leaving Radiant Life Church of Katy
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: June 07, 2008 08:32PM
SpeakTruth:
What goes on within RLC is the topic of this thread, which would include the way RLC affects the personal lives of its members.
Please do "hold [your] digital tongue."
Flaming is against the rules you agreed to before posting here.
BTW--It doesn't seem that "Dr. Love" is in love with the idea of democratically elected church government.
Of course such elections are done by secret ballot in the overwhelming majority of Protestant churches. And they are done according to a church constitution with bylaws, which provides for this process.
Doesn't seem like RLC has such bylaws.
Are you also in favor of independently audited annual financial reports that disclose all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from church funds?
What about reasonable educational requirements for pastors, e.g. college degree and/or an accredited seminary degree?
This is a basic requirement for most Protestant pastors. This educational process seems to provide a basis to weed out some of the potentially problematic persons seeking to occupy a position of religious authority over others.
It's not a perfect process, but it's helpful and better than nothing.
What goes on within RLC is the topic of this thread, which would include the way RLC affects the personal lives of its members.
Please do "hold [your] digital tongue."
Flaming is against the rules you agreed to before posting here.
BTW--It doesn't seem that "Dr. Love" is in love with the idea of democratically elected church government.
Of course such elections are done by secret ballot in the overwhelming majority of Protestant churches. And they are done according to a church constitution with bylaws, which provides for this process.
Doesn't seem like RLC has such bylaws.
Are you also in favor of independently audited annual financial reports that disclose all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from church funds?
What about reasonable educational requirements for pastors, e.g. college degree and/or an accredited seminary degree?
This is a basic requirement for most Protestant pastors. This educational process seems to provide a basis to weed out some of the potentially problematic persons seeking to occupy a position of religious authority over others.
It's not a perfect process, but it's helpful and better than nothing.
Re: Why are family members leaving Radiant Life Church of Katy
Posted by:
whatajoke
()
Date: June 07, 2008 11:23PM
the reason the "baby issue" is such an issue with Dr. SpeakTruthLove is because they are close to the man and were part of some very destructive practices within a seperate group led by him. They worshiped the ground he walked on within that group as evidened by a persons my space comments about his longing for Paul. It is totally on topic because #1 he was a leader at the church, a man who was in a position of influencing others by the way he lived his so called christian life. #2 Pastor Tony celebrated it at a church service and represented it to be a spiritual thing. #3 A pastor at the church was the recipient and did not stop the madness. And to SpeakTruth, that comments means that I am speaking only about things I know from experience there. that is from relationships and seeing. I am not getting information from the monkeys uncle or someone who passed by a Starbucks, racing down the street, who saw Pastor Tony kissing a SoMa student. And your statement "maybe they made their decision (about the baby) because they felt it was right for them" in no way adds is scripturally to the way the couple was claiming to live their lives. Evidently there are issues with this christian couple because you can go to the Sac County Court index and look them up. Here we go again, that is what I mean about wishy washy. I spoken to many people about this issue including a verydynamic pastor and they are all appalled. They were members of the body at RLC and inleadership. they went to SOMA, led outreaches, and from what I understand from one of them (yes he told me) got some kind of compensation fromthe church.
Re: Why are family members leaving Radiant Life Church of Katy
Posted by:
SpeakTruth
()
Date: June 08, 2008 12:21AM
RRMod:
"Of course such elections are done by secret ballot in the overwhelming majority of Protestant churches. And they are done according to a church constitution with bylaws, which provides for this process."
-I made the point you are referring to because it is possible that open voting occurs within the board of elders only. I have never had an opportunity to vote in any way. I also am aware that in specific instances people have tried to question this and that (details are vague so I'll let someone else fill it in) about what's going on in the church (finances, leadership, accountability), and they were either squashed, ignored, or "warned about" as dangerous.
-I think if anything, it's important for people to know the details about what is going on in the church leadership. The workings of the church should not be so hidden. I have seen at times that RLC is open (annual business meeting, I believe all of the finances are exposed), yet so many things are "secrets" that affect the whole body.
-Of course I'm in favor of independently audited annual financial reports that disclose all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from church funds! In fact, this info should be available by walking in and requesting it. Perhaps it is, I just haven't tried. Someone go in and try and then report it. I don't feel like wasting the gas.
-Concerning pastoral education, I think to school (conceptually) is acceptable, if you want Bible lessons and Tony's teaching. Most of it had been good (what I experienced at SOMA). But students must realize that it is not accredited, which means its completely useless as an educational background for careers. In other words, it's fine if someone wants to learn more about the Bible, but it is not college. And it is an expensive Bible study. I don't see why the changes could not be made to make it an accredited college, unless the curriculum accountability is to much. That would be my only guess. Personally I was pissed off when I started getting letters to collect my dues, but that's another story altogether. When a church has it's own independent and unaccredited college, it is not accountable to anyone else expect for itself, which could also pose as a problem. Tony does know the Bible well, anyone who has heard him teach before knows that. It's the side stuff that gets off track at times. I think if he made himself truly accountable, and the body responded without "fear of man" to keep him accountable, then maybe these issues could actually be addressed.
P.S. Seriously, if I get another collection letter for SOMA, I might just have to crap in a bag, light it on fire, put it at the doors at the bowling alley, and ring the doorbell...
Also, I agree that this whole thing is not a perfect process!
Whatajoke:
I am close to the man that gave the baby away... there was a span of about a year when we did not talk much because it was all so weird. But the circumstances are different now. In other words, he does not even belong to that church anymore. That would be the driving reasoning behind me saying to ask him personally about it, or referencing it separately from that church. It seems like you missed alot of the story after the drama... (and there was plenty of drama). But the crap already hit the fan, so to speak.
A question I have for you to address regarding this: If, oh say, Pastor BM were to leave the church today because of being fed up with the politics and whatever, leaving it all behind him and moving on, would you continue to warn people about what has happened in the past? Or would you forever equate him with that church and never acknowledge him as able to change. I would also use this example regarding myself, since I was in leadership and have since left the church because I felt led to no longer "submit" to that authority. That was my choice for my family and I. Or consider some of these great men of God you speak of (you previously listed them off) who have already left. You must acknowledge that at one time they were all in deep and had fed into it all. But the point is, they did leave. It's not fair to tag them once they are gone, you should remove that label! Am I wrong? Transparent. were you not once deep in the leadership? You cannot tell me you weren't because I already know. Now you might see where I am coming from.
"Of course such elections are done by secret ballot in the overwhelming majority of Protestant churches. And they are done according to a church constitution with bylaws, which provides for this process."
-I made the point you are referring to because it is possible that open voting occurs within the board of elders only. I have never had an opportunity to vote in any way. I also am aware that in specific instances people have tried to question this and that (details are vague so I'll let someone else fill it in) about what's going on in the church (finances, leadership, accountability), and they were either squashed, ignored, or "warned about" as dangerous.
-I think if anything, it's important for people to know the details about what is going on in the church leadership. The workings of the church should not be so hidden. I have seen at times that RLC is open (annual business meeting, I believe all of the finances are exposed), yet so many things are "secrets" that affect the whole body.
-Of course I'm in favor of independently audited annual financial reports that disclose all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from church funds! In fact, this info should be available by walking in and requesting it. Perhaps it is, I just haven't tried. Someone go in and try and then report it. I don't feel like wasting the gas.
-Concerning pastoral education, I think to school (conceptually) is acceptable, if you want Bible lessons and Tony's teaching. Most of it had been good (what I experienced at SOMA). But students must realize that it is not accredited, which means its completely useless as an educational background for careers. In other words, it's fine if someone wants to learn more about the Bible, but it is not college. And it is an expensive Bible study. I don't see why the changes could not be made to make it an accredited college, unless the curriculum accountability is to much. That would be my only guess. Personally I was pissed off when I started getting letters to collect my dues, but that's another story altogether. When a church has it's own independent and unaccredited college, it is not accountable to anyone else expect for itself, which could also pose as a problem. Tony does know the Bible well, anyone who has heard him teach before knows that. It's the side stuff that gets off track at times. I think if he made himself truly accountable, and the body responded without "fear of man" to keep him accountable, then maybe these issues could actually be addressed.
P.S. Seriously, if I get another collection letter for SOMA, I might just have to crap in a bag, light it on fire, put it at the doors at the bowling alley, and ring the doorbell...
Also, I agree that this whole thing is not a perfect process!
Whatajoke:
I am close to the man that gave the baby away... there was a span of about a year when we did not talk much because it was all so weird. But the circumstances are different now. In other words, he does not even belong to that church anymore. That would be the driving reasoning behind me saying to ask him personally about it, or referencing it separately from that church. It seems like you missed alot of the story after the drama... (and there was plenty of drama). But the crap already hit the fan, so to speak.
A question I have for you to address regarding this: If, oh say, Pastor BM were to leave the church today because of being fed up with the politics and whatever, leaving it all behind him and moving on, would you continue to warn people about what has happened in the past? Or would you forever equate him with that church and never acknowledge him as able to change. I would also use this example regarding myself, since I was in leadership and have since left the church because I felt led to no longer "submit" to that authority. That was my choice for my family and I. Or consider some of these great men of God you speak of (you previously listed them off) who have already left. You must acknowledge that at one time they were all in deep and had fed into it all. But the point is, they did leave. It's not fair to tag them once they are gone, you should remove that label! Am I wrong? Transparent. were you not once deep in the leadership? You cannot tell me you weren't because I already know. Now you might see where I am coming from.
Re: Why are family members leaving Radiant Life Church of Katy
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: June 08, 2008 12:47AM
SpeakTruth:
OK. So you agree that RLC should have (1) democratically elected church government through a process mandated by a constitution and bylaws, with elections by secret ballot. (2) That all the finances should be transparent through an independently audited and annually published financial statement that discloses all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from church funds. (3) That accredited seminary education is to be preferred over non-accredited education.
But RLC has none of the above.
And you left RLC because you were "fed up."
Again, please understand that this thread is not about Transparent, it's about RLC.
Please stay on topic.
Last warning.
OK. So you agree that RLC should have (1) democratically elected church government through a process mandated by a constitution and bylaws, with elections by secret ballot. (2) That all the finances should be transparent through an independently audited and annually published financial statement that discloses all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from church funds. (3) That accredited seminary education is to be preferred over non-accredited education.
But RLC has none of the above.
And you left RLC because you were "fed up."
Again, please understand that this thread is not about Transparent, it's about RLC.
Please stay on topic.
Last warning.
Re: Why are family members leaving Radiant Life Church of Katy
Posted by:
whatajoke
()
Date: June 08, 2008 03:43AM
Quote
SpeakTruth
RRMod:
"Of course such elections are done by secret ballot in the overwhelming majority of Protestant churches. And they are done according to a church constitution with bylaws, which provides for this process."
-I made the point you are referring to because it is possible that open voting occurs within the board of elders only. I have never had an opportunity to vote in any way. I also am aware that in specific instances people have tried to question this and that (details are vague so I'll let someone else fill it in) about what's going on in the church (finances, leadership, accountability), and they were either squashed, ignored, or "warned about" as dangerous.
-I think if anything, it's important for people to know the details about what is going on in the church leadership. The workings of the church should not be so hidden. I have seen at times that RLC is open (annual business meeting, I believe all of the finances are exposed), yet so many things are "secrets" that affect the whole body.
-Of course I'm in favor of independently audited annual financial reports that disclose all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from church funds! In fact, this info should be available by walking in and requesting it. Perhaps it is, I just haven't tried. Someone go in and try and then report it. I don't feel like wasting the gas.
-Concerning pastoral education, I think to school (conceptually) is acceptable, if you want Bible lessons and Tony's teaching. Most of it had been good (what I experienced at SOMA). But students must realize that it is not accredited, which means its completely useless as an educational background for careers. In other words, it's fine if someone wants to learn more about the Bible, but it is not college. And it is an expensive Bible study. I don't see why the changes could not be made to make it an accredited college, unless the curriculum accountability is to much. That would be my only guess. Personally I was pissed off when I started getting letters to collect my dues, but that's another story altogether. When a church has it's own independent and unaccredited college, it is not accountable to anyone else expect for itself, which could also pose as a problem. Tony does know the Bible well, anyone who has heard him teach before knows that. It's the side stuff that gets off track at times. I think if he made himself truly accountable, and the body responded without "fear of man" to keep him accountable, then maybe these issues could actually be addressed.
P.S. Seriously, if I get another collection letter for SOMA, I might just have to crap in a bag, light it on fire, put it at the doors at the bowling alley, and ring the doorbell...
Also, I agree that this whole thing is not a perfect process!
Whatajoke:
I am close to the man that gave the baby away... there was a span of about a year when we did not talk much because it was all so weird. But the circumstances are different now. In other words, he does not even belong to that church anymore. That would be the driving reasoning behind me saying to ask him personally about it, or referencing it separately from that church. It seems like you missed alot of the story after the drama... (and there was plenty of drama). But the crap already hit the fan, so to speak.
A question I have for you to address regarding this: If, oh say, Pastor BM were to leave the church today because of being fed up with the politics and whatever, leaving it all behind him and moving on, would you continue to warn people about what has happened in the past? Or would you forever equate him with that church and never acknowledge him as able to change. I would also use this example regarding myself, since I was in leadership and have since left the church because I felt led to no longer "submit" to that authority. That was my choice for my family and I. Or consider some of these great men of God you speak of (you previously listed them off) who have already left. You must acknowledge that at one time they were all in deep and had fed into it all. But the point is, they did leave. It's not fair to tag them once they are gone, you should remove that label! Am I wrong? Transparent. were you not once deep in the leadership? You cannot tell me you weren't because I already know. Now you might see where I am coming from.
SpeakTruth, this is a very productive and helpful post on your part. As for the godly men that left, I think they did the right thing and I no longer label them as Radiant Life because I know them and they want nothing to do with Radiant Life. if you are concerned that you are being labeled as representing Radiant Life it is because you are speaking on some issues and defending RLC on the issues. I don't really care about the shit hitting the fan stuff. Whether he has regrets now or what it doesn't matter. He was in leadership there and represented himself to be something he is not. I believe Paul can change and maybe he has but that doesn't equate to RLC changing. The great men who left are not being tagged as RLC but are being tagged as wise men who finally saw through the smokescreens. So me bringing up the baby issue has to do with radiant life and the leaders involved during this whole thing. If it was a mature church this whole thing would have gone nowhere. And know as you have had issues, the baby issue is not the sole issue it is just one that I have pointed out and is very serious. Anyway, I appreciate your forthright posts and know that I purpose of my posts is as a warning to people currently there and people who are new. They can judge for themselves. I just know what so many have gone through and hope that others do not have to go the same route. It is easy to get drawn in there because it can be like going to an Amway convention at times.
Re: Why are family members leaving Radiant Life Church of Katy
Posted by:
whatajoke
()
Date: June 08, 2008 04:02AM
Quote from SpeakTruth:
Tony does know the Bible well, anyone who has heard him teach before knows that.
Yea, so did Satan. Knowing the bible well doesn't equate to living out the bible well. He could probably be a great college professor.
And hey speaktruth, you are defending Love but i thought he liked me as he said in one of his posts. have a great day.
Tony does know the Bible well, anyone who has heard him teach before knows that.
Yea, so did Satan. Knowing the bible well doesn't equate to living out the bible well. He could probably be a great college professor.
And hey speaktruth, you are defending Love but i thought he liked me as he said in one of his posts. have a great day.
Re: Why are family members leaving Radiant Life Church of Katy
Posted by:
SpeakTruth
()
Date: June 08, 2008 07:53AM
Again, read the whole sentence: I said he knows the Word well, AND that the problem is the side stuff with it. Again, I'm trying to tell the whole story. I don't get this: "And hey speaktruth, you are defending Love but i thought he liked me as he said in one of his posts. have a great day." Of course, he's my best friend, what's your point?
Re: Why are family members leaving Radiant Life Church of Katy
Posted by:
Transparent
()
Date: June 08, 2008 09:39PM
RLC has it's big time flaws... so does everyone else.... we're all a screwed up bunch of individuals in need of Christ at every waking moment. I'm in agreement with Moderator... the posting is about RLC... let's please keep it at that! I have been keping tabs on what's going on these days and things really are not looking to good it seems... alot of crap is going on that ppl do no want to address (leadership)... I really want to know why leadership defends Tony so much... why the leadership protects Tony so much? He's not the president, or the pope or any body of "importance" to me or many others.... All the other ppl sucked into this religious lie of Radiant Life Church... get out as fast as you can... Are you still so freaking dull that you cannot see the crap going on...???To the Elders.... c'mon now ppl... there is some elders who have been there a long time....what's the deal elders.... telling other people what they can and cannot do? Overbearing strong headed individuals just like your so called "spiritual father".... Just look at some of you guys... you used to have the respect of many people till you got it into your minds that Tony is the "apostle", the man and all that... Tony isn't close to being one in the Apostolic Office... Read about Paul you morons... make the comparisons..... Greg... what the hell happened to you man? An elder who at one time had my respect because of your love for God... but your love for Tony has surpassed that... it's a shame man!
Re: Why are family members leaving Radiant Life Church of Katy
Posted by:
Dr. Love
()
Date: June 10, 2008 05:53AM
If God told you to give up your child, would you?
If your pastor told you to give up your child, would you?
Paul is not a delusional man; he is very capable of making his own decisions. And yes at the time im sure he told tony what God told him.
But why ask a man when GOD speaks, if you have the Holy Spirit you know what im talking about.
Would you fear God's authority enough to do what you think he is telling you? After all God did give his only son for you! So people should be grateful for generous people and a generous GOD.
If God told me to do something crazy, and my church didn't support me; im sorry I choose Christ, I’ll find a new church.
Well in this case there was no conflict, so RLC got to keep his attendance for a few more months.
If your pastor told you to give up your child, would you?
Paul is not a delusional man; he is very capable of making his own decisions. And yes at the time im sure he told tony what God told him.
But why ask a man when GOD speaks, if you have the Holy Spirit you know what im talking about.
Would you fear God's authority enough to do what you think he is telling you? After all God did give his only son for you! So people should be grateful for generous people and a generous GOD.
If God told me to do something crazy, and my church didn't support me; im sorry I choose Christ, I’ll find a new church.
Well in this case there was no conflict, so RLC got to keep his attendance for a few more months.
Re: Why are family members leaving Radiant Life Church of Katy
Posted by:
whatajoke
()
Date: June 10, 2008 06:42AM
Quote
Dr. Love
If God told you to give up your child, would you?
If your pastor told you to give up your child, would you? NO No No No No NO
Whew!!!!!!!!! I would suggest that you take up the issue with some respectable pastors around town. Much of your post really doesn't really make sense. You are assuming that just because someone, Paul in this case, is hearing a voice, that it is God's voice. When you hear a voice speaking to you it must be tested to make sure that it is in fact God. One of the tests would be if it is in line with his word. I don't really see anywhere where it is in agreement with the word of God. Paul did not hear God he heard something else. I believe there should have been major conflict on the part of the Radiant Life leadership to keep one of their own leaders from acting out contrary to scripture. you are still trying to defend giving away a baby it seems but it is indefensable. It obviously wasn't Gods voice and you reap what you sow. Marital problems, domestic violence issues. I don't care that he is your friend and you are here to defend him. I care about the issue and what happened. I hope the best for your friend but it does not take away from the action he took as a leader at Radiant Life. It is a bad reflection of him as a leader and Christian and it is a bad reflection of the Church for celebrating it. It is also a bad reflection on the pastor that received the baby for allowing themselves to act contrary to the word of god for selfish gain.
Others who are reading this forum, help me out. moderator, help me out. As a christian, is it in line with scripture or okay to give your child up because you believe God is speaking to you and telling you to give it up. What about as a leader in the church. One who has a so called vine with many people and families participating which is contrary to Loves statement that he is part of the vine that belongs to Christ or something like that. He was also part of the Paul C vine. This person was a vine leader, outreach leader, young adult leader, SOMA student, got some sort of compensation or help financially from the church. i am not here to bash Paul but he was a leader at the church and as a result this is an example of the lack of accountability of the leaders at Radiant Life. This issue is being raised over and over again because of the magnitude of the issue. It is the poster child so to speak for me of the misteachings and lack of accountability at the church. I could use other issues also such as an elders daughter living with Pastor Tony and the explanations in prior posts that oh she was living there because of mistakes the elder made in the past raising kids and it would be better for her. Give me a break, if that is the real reason and the elder is not in a position to raise their child then guess what? They shouldn't be and elder. there are instructions for elders in the church contained in the bible and they don't include send your child off to someone else to experience a different living arrangement because you are consumed with past mistakes. If you are holy and upright and now an elder then you better be capable of raising your child. It sad the number of people at this church who refer to their spiritual fathers and mothers. Scaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaary......... These are other examples of misteachings and lack of accountability.
People stopping by to take a look at this thread, please chime in on the baby issue. help me out on this.
Also check out topix.com--- Katy Texas to see some comments from Katy residents regarding a church plant there. Make sure and scroll to the second page.
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