THIS IS A POSITIVE ASSESSMENT (peppered with some discernment)

Thieme's ministry was/is very useful to me when I started my first earnest study of Bible doctrine. His teaching style is very structured and, by and large, true to Scriptures. Also, his style is very powerful, forceful and dogmatic...so I can see how his detractors like to pick at this aspect of Theime's ministry. Some people don't like pastors who preach passionately a lot....which Thieme does....a lot! However, at the time I started listening to his tapes, I was going through a very difficult and chaotic time in my life and I needed this type of style to provide a basic foundation that I could build upon. I was able to glean a lot of useful information when I needed it very much. I would encourage any new believer to listen to Thieme's 1961 Basic Doctrine course provided they are willing to endure the "boot camp" atmosphere he advertises it as. I do not identify Thieme's ministry as any type of cult whatsoever.

However, Thieme tends to explain things according to his own invented methodology of teaching. This comes out more in his later tapes (late 70's, early 80's). I think this is where he gets into trouble trying to force the Scriptural concepts into his methodology. I had trouble just following his teachings from these years and, eventually, abandoned my pursuit of his teachings for a time.

Thieme has influenced many influential clergy over the years. I would highly recommend reading "Joseph: A Pillar of Grace" published by Grace Evangelistic Ministries. This little book has many great insights and was written by a pastor (Moses O-something) who also studied under Bob Thieme....and like Thieme's publications, is free for the asking.

I recently listened to Chuck Swindoll's sermon on discernment. Swindoll was also an early student of Thieme's so I understand. This sermon was very useful for understanding Thieme as Swindoll shares some of his personal testimony which I believe speaks to his period of study under Thieme. Swindoll only refers to "a strong teacher" in his testimony and does not mention Thieme by name, however it's consistent with the same period in Swindoll's biographies. My message here is that Thieme's teachings, balanced with discernment and the study of other points of view on Biblical doctrine (including the Bible itself, of course) are useful in understanding our Lord more fully.....which is my continuing goal and Swindoll's point in sharing.

Thieme has many detractors who take his teaching to task on various aspects I find to be minor differences in the church that have been debated over the ages. I'm sure these detractors feel these issues are a lot more significant than I do. However, on the main messages of Christianity, I think Colonel Thieme's ministry is a blessing to many, including myself.

Hello. Virgilsweeney,

This is your first post on Rick Ross, it appears, so let me welcome you here. Thanks for posting your experiences and opinions re Thieme. I am working on a reply, but on my email first lest I lose hours of work!

I hope you stick with us through what may be an up and down dialog. Most who like Thieme do not address the specific issues we bring up nor do they stay long except to continue to repeat their non responsive replies to our questions and concerns.

May I strongly suggest you take the considerable time to catch up on all the posts on the main thread on Rick Ross re Thieme entitled R.B.THIEME JR.? We refer to it frequently and it will help you to know what has gone before and the many colorful personalities who have contributed.

I especially call your attention to the posts of SpirituaLiberty in the RB THIEME JR. thread on forgiveness. That might be a great topic to cover first. NOne of us that I kn ow of who disagrees with Thieme has ever said EVERYTHING he taught was wrong or that his organized verse by verse format was wrong. Our main objections center on the CONTENTS and the ERRONEOUS TEACHINGS and ADDITIONS, CHANGES AND OMISSIONS re the Word of God itself through his personal vocabulary and doctrinal claims.

Thanks again for posting. I will reply more fully as soon as I have a chance.

Sistersoap

To Virg,

I doubt that this is really your 1st visit to this forum, but if it is your 1st visit then your "innocent" "positive" lack of knowledge of Thieme's errors is harmful to yourself and others.

Positive Assessment? That is an insult. As if we have only done a "negative" assessment. No. You see here? What we do is we look at the the very sad facts of Thieme's deceitful handling of the Word. What we have done here and are still doing here is an objective assessment. (Have people gotten upset because they were misled? Yes they have. They have a right to. This is thier forum to get upset in.)

What discernment? Can you be critical of a false positive? What I mean is can you resist and see what is wrong in what you feel is a positive view? From what I have heard you say so far you may not care to. Just because something "feels" positive, doesn't mean it is the Truth. The Truth is often very harsh. Dancing and skipping around in a fairy outfit feeling positive towards what Thieme says and hiding in the closet from the truth of your humanity and your identity is not Christianity - Then? sinning and feeling very negative then positive then negative then positive then negative then positive then negative then positive then negative then positive then negative - is a chaotic oscillation into insanity. Christianity is not being a magnet which oscillates between "positive" view and "negative" view of what Thieme said, that's mental illness. You can "feel" "positive" towards what Thieme says all day, but you are not facing GOD-given reality.

Have you ever read Dr. Wall, Dr. Custer, Dr. Chafer, Dr. Walvoord, Dr. Waite, or Dr. Scofield etc...? Have you ever actually read what the "detractors" have said? You would learn something.

Yep Berachah's propaganda manuals are free, so is the associated mental illness.

(I would also like to see a list of the people who contributed to Berachah)

Virg, what I see is more generalized praise of Thieme typical of Thieme magnets and an attempt to harass and disrupt people trying to recover from Thieme's abuse. If you are just here to praise Thieme (and gloss-over Thieme's groce errors as minor), then you are in the wrong forum. There are plenty of forums that just praise Thieme and worship the words of Thieme in the Thieme temple, but this is not one of those forums. So respect our privacy and move on.

If you are here to learn then, here's Dr. Wall's doctoral dissertation from Dallas Theological Seminary for starters. I suggest reading the critiques at the end of each chapter. [www.texaswalls.org]

We are already doing an objective assessment with discernment. It's right here. [forum.culteducation.com]


Truthtesty

I understand what you are saying, and honestly if I had started attending Berachah as a young adult, I might agree with you. But how much discernment does an 6 year old have? Not much. There parents are taking them to this church, and singing Col. Thieme's praises, so if mom and dad approve, it must be right. Thus, the child accepts everything they hear as the gospel truth. And it seriously affects their spiritual life in a negative way, as a result. And if they ever come to realize this in their life, it is not easy at all to overcome. I am overcoming this right now.

If I can't take my children to this church, without risking their spiritual lives, then I shouldn't attend there either.

So I respectfully disagree with your premise.

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radaph
I understand what you are saying, and honestly if I had started attending Berachah as a young adult, I might agree with you. But how much discernment does an 6 year old have? Not much. There parents are taking them to this church, and singing Col. Thieme's praises, so if mom and dad approve, it must be right. Thus, the child accepts everything they hear as the gospel truth. And it seriously affects their spiritual life in a negative way, as a result. And if they ever come to realize this in their life, it is not easy at all to overcome. I am overcoming this right now.

If I can't take my children to this church, without risking their spiritual lives, then I shouldn't attend there either.

So I respectfully disagree with your premise.

HELLO RADAPH,

You make an excellent point. How true it is that if children's spiritual lives are at risk from attending a particular church or being exposed to a teaching or concept, then why would adults want to stick around? Jesus said the Kingdom of God requires children to be accepted and loved and if they are not safe, then nobody is.

Millstone fittings right around the corner.

Jesus trumped the devil's ace on the Cross and in the Resurrection so why should we go on as if the game were not already over? Why continue to play the Devil's game? You can get what Thieme taught on his Basic 1961 Series from good books on dispensationalism. Why put up with all the "frills" he added as well as the militaristic attitude when it is not in the bible to begin with?

A LOT changed between 1961 and 2002 at Berachah, and the teaching goes on forever on tape and in books. So nobody can say they were not warned by those of us who have been there and seen what this does especially to the more vulnerable in the audience.

The ok basics are just setting you up for the errors to come.

Sistersoap

Dear Truthesty,

Wow! You have quite an axe to grind. I will pray for you.

Best regards in Christ,
VS

Virg,

It seems Thiemites have an axe to grind with this forum.

Wow! You have got a lot to learn.

Are you going to pray for Dr. Wall, Dr. Custer, Dr. Chafer, Dr. Walvoord, Dr. Waite, or Dr. Scofield etc...? They pointed out errors also. The Word is more important than Thieme's misleading words. How about praying for the Protestant Reformation and the people who were involved in that? They pointed out errors in the Catholic Church. Do you pray for all Protestants?

Did you read Dr. Wall's critiques?

Any questions you'd like to ask?

Anything you'd like to share?

Answer questions specifically.

Don't worry about me.

Don't worry about my axe.

It's already sharp and oiled.

I don't need to grind it.

Read the the research.

I said it once I'll say it again: ^{" If you are just here to praise Thieme (and gloss-over Thieme's groce errors as minor), then you are in the wrong forum. There are plenty of forums that just praise Thieme and worship the words of Thieme in the Thieme temple, but this is not one of those forums. So respect our privacy and move on."}

I do not need your generalized uninformed judging.

Don't be a bad loser.

Don't blame us for Thieme's deception.

We are just exposing the falsehoods of Thieme.

Don't harass us, because you can't handle the truth.


Truthtesty

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Truthtesty
I said it once I'll say it again: ^{" If you are just here to praise Thieme (and gloss-over Thieme's groce errors as minor), then you are in the wrong forum. There are plenty of forums that just praise Thieme and worship the words of Thieme in the Thieme temple, but this is not one of those forums. So respect our privacy and move on."}

Truthtesty

I thought the goal of this forum was to reveal "true" cults for what they are. Just because you are convinced Berachah is a cult doesn't mean you are right. The same could be said of Dr. Wall, whoever he is.

Berachah and Col Theime are far from perfect. And there are some major problems that I have with his ministry. But I have no intention of slandering his name all over the internet. Pastor-bashing is extremely counter-productive to the plan of God. Even if said pastor is wrong about many doctrines.

There is a verse in 1Corinthians I believe, that deals with this. They were concerned with what some other church was teaching about some doctrinal issues. Paul basically told them, "are they teaching Christ crucified?" "If so, leave them alone, they are not your enemy."

Does that mean you should go to their church. No.
Does it mean it's your job to judge them and try to bring them down? No.

radaph:

Anyone can criticize a pastor or preacher, it's called freedom of speech.

You should read Galatians again.

Paul was VERY critical of church leaders.

Paul also was critical of Peter, an apostle, in Acts.

You are choosing to proof text scripture selectively out of context.

Also heresy is a very serious matter to Christians as evidenced by the New Testament.

Paul warned about false teachings and Jesus said that many would come in his name, but he would not know them.

Christians are called through the New Testament scriptures to expose false teachings and false teachers.

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rrmoderator
radaph:

Anyone can criticize a pastor or preacher, it's called freedom of speech.

Civil law is not the only law that Christians are subject to.

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rrmoderator
You should read Galatians again.

Paul was VERY critical of church leaders.

Paul also was critical of Peter, an apostle, in Acts.

Paul was the founder of those churches, and he was an apostle. That gave him the authority over those churches.

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rrmoderator
You are choosing to proof text scripture selectively out of context.

Well, anyone can accuse anyone of that, and they do. It really is a pointless argument.

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rrmoderator
Also heresy is a very serious matter to Christians as evidenced by the New Testament.

Paul warned about false teachings and Jesus said that many would come in his name, but he would not know them.

Christians are called through the New Testament scriptures to expose false teachings and false teachers.

I am aware that Paul and other apostles warned the church of false prophets, (wolves in sheep's clothing), and to be on the lookout for them. And when someone comes to you in Jesus' name, don't take his word for it, but compare the things he claims to what the scriptures claim. But that is for your own discernment. If you do discover that somethings are false, and enough things that you won't even listen to this person anymore. It's still not your job to go tell the world about this. If you claim the bible does command this type of behavior, could you quote some verses to support this?