DebbieAnn:

You didn't answer my questions?

Please answer the question previously posted.

RRmoderator:

How does Pastor Murray see the jews? Well, I think you would have to ask him that question. As for myself I see them as being descendants of Judah; God's children, just like everyone else is. They were a part of and descended from the 12 tribes of Israel . They were the decendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob whom God renamed, Israel, in Genesis 32:28. I see them as a people rich in heritage with an ancestry that can be traced back to Biblical times. A people who played a major role in the Old Testament as well as the New. And most importantly, the people from which God would use to bring forth the Messiah, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. It is most unfortunate that those of the Judaism faith never excepted Him as such. For as long as we have studied with Murray, I have no reason to think that Pastor Murray feels any differently on this subject than I.

As for who the Kenites are: they are the descendants of Cain. Cain taken back in the Hebrew in the Strong's Concordance #7014 is "Qayin, Kajin, the name of the first chlid, also of a place in Pal., and of an Oriental tribe: Cain, Kenite." As for their role historically, it started with Cain's geneolgy in Genesis 4. Jesus's Words in John 8:34-46 come to mind, as well Matthew 13. Murray also talks about the Kenites on his website which I pasted in a prior post which will give you his insight on the matter.

As I have already written in a prior post, Murray teaches that God loves all of his children, and that he loves them all the same. Each have the very same opportunity of salvation if they accept Jesus as their personal savior.

As for your last question, I think I have already answered that with my last paragraph..

DebbieAnn

DebbieAnn, thank you for your clarification of Biblically historic documents. Please let me, and others, know where the original gospels and "Old" testament texts lie so that we can examine them. What about the famous "Book of Daniel"? It is intact, yes, but IS IT REAL or a LIE and a HOAX? Take your time answering me after you answer rrmoderator's query.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2009 12:10PM by Sparky.

BTW DebbieAnn, the exact Hebrew has the 'Popeye' name for god "I Yam what I Yam" as being 'I Will be what I Will be". This hints at the everlasting and eternal nature of your god, not the fickle "I Yam what I Yam". The PRESENT TENSE "I am what I Yam" could mean that god is now, in our present day, DEAD. The Hebrew translation is much more powerful and insightful. We are not 'crossing swords' with each other, only getting the translation down correctly. I think this matters greatly and that christians like yourself should embrace the Hebrew translation with passion. It doesn't matter if your pastors are ignorant to Hebrew and they didn't get a formal eduction on the subject; they clearly have passion and (for many) Love for their 'flock'.

In addition of Mr. Ross' queries, I must ask, how transparent are the monies (financials) and where do they go? Do you know? Also, can Murray be removed as pastor from his group if the 'flock' doesn't want him to 'shepard' anymore?

Is Murray's word the final word? Can you openly disagree with him and his thoughts/ideas on the scripture and still remain a member-in-good-standing? Do you tithe?

What I am asking is who runs Shepard's Chapel and does the body of the church (appointed/elected members) have any say over where the money goes and who leads the services?

Please answer Rick Ross' questions first. I am very interested in this thread...



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2009 12:29PM by Sparky.

Hiya DebbieAnn........if theres no Shepherd Bible why'd Dr. Murray copyright it ?

[thewhitereport.com]

Quote

In addition of Mr. Ross' queries, I must ask, how transparent are the monies (financials) and where do they go?

Is not transparency......Dr. Murray declines to disclose the church assets.

[thewhitereport.com]

Quote

Arnold Murray

Arnold Benjamin Murray was ordained to the Office of Minister ‘agreeable to the laws governing ordination in the Soldiers of the Cross..’ by Roy E. Gillaspie, D.Th. of Bellflower, California on April 30th, 1958. Assisting were John Alvin Lovell, D.D. of Dallas, Texas and Oliver Kenneth Goff, D.D. of Soldiers of the Cross, Englewood, Colorado.

Murray established the Church of Jesus Christ in Gravette, Arkansas, one of the independent churches of this name also pastored by Swift, Gillaspie, Smith, Butler, Robb and Jandebeur. Goff became the national chairman for the Church of Jesus Christ group in the 1960’s. In 1991 Murray changed the name of his church to Shepherd’s Chapel, but has to date retained the corporate identity of Soldiers of the Cross.

In 1978 Murray and Leeland Jandebeur collaborated to write the Shepherd’s Bible, a Kingdom Identity edition of the King James with commentary by Murray. It was in the form of loose leaf pages contained in a binder whereby the reader could add additional books of the bible as they were completed. It never was.

Word for word thats what I say on site. All facts with a paper trail.

[thewhitereport.com]

Sparky wrote "DebbieAnn, thank you for your clarification of Biblically historic documents. Please let me, and others, know where the original gospels and "Old" testament texts lie so that we can examine them. What about the famous "Book of Daniel"? It is intact, yes, but IS IT REAL or a LIE and a HOAX? Take your time answering me after you answer rrmoderator's query."

"The Hebrew translation is much more powerful and insightful. We are not 'crossing swords' with each other, only getting the translation down correctly. I think this matters greatly and that christians like yourself should embrace the Hebrew translation with passion. It doesn't matter if your pastors are ignorant to Hebrew and they didn't get a formal eduction on the subject; they clearly have passion and (for many) Love for their 'flock'."

Sorry Sparky,

But I won't play your game. There are thousands of ancient manuscripts out there. Why don't you do the digging. I believe your above remark speaks volumes as to where you stand. Tell me do you embrace the Greek of the New Testament as well, and most importantly do you embrace Jesus as your personal savior.

This is much more important than trying to decipher names in the Hebrew language. I have a Strong's that has both a Hebrew and Greek dictionary in it. Plus several other Bible study sources one of which is the Green's Interlinear Bible. It has the Masoretic text (Hebrew) of the Old Testament, as well as the Greek in the New.

As to your question where do the monies go concerning Shepherds Chapel, I believe it is quite simple. I can watch his television programs from 2:00 in the morning until 5:00 in the evening. Thats 15 hours a day Monday thru Friday. He may even come on more than that. And as you very well know those precious air waves aren't free.

This might come as a shock to you, but Pastor Murray takes no paycheck from the Chapel. He spreads God's Word because of his love for our Father. Too bad all men of God are not like that.

DebbieAnn:

Aronold Murray does not disclose the finances of his church through an annually published budget, which details all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from church funds.

So you, and other contributors, really don't with any certainty how the church monies are handled.

Please don't cite Wikipedia as a source as it isn't that reliable and at times misleading. And per its disclaimer information there has not "necessarily been reviewed by professionals with the expertise necessary to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information". Wikipedia therefore makes "no guarantee of validity." If you follow the linked discussion section you can see that this popular place on the Worldwide Web can become a venue for cranks and cultists who want to rant about someone or something they don't like.

Arnold Murray has been described as a racist, white supremacist and anti-Semite.

See [www.splcenter.org]

Here are some expcerpts from the Southern Poverty Law Center Report about Arnold Murray.

Murray's 1958 minister's license was signed by the late white supremacists Roy Gillaspie and Kenneth Goff, two early ideologues of Christian Identity, a racist theology that's been popular among Klansmen, neo-Nazis and other white nationalists for several decades. Most Identity adherents believe the Bible is the history of the white race, who are seen as the real "chosen people."

Despite these ties to the roots of the Christian Identity movement, Murray today publicly disavows racism, and his followers include a tiny minority of non-whites. Even so, Murray preaches often about a race of evil people, descended from Cain, borne out of "the Serpent Seed" of Eve's sexual union with Satan in the Garden of Eden. He calls them the "Kenites" and identifies them in his 1979 Shepherd's Bible as people "who slipped in among the Jewish people in Jerusalem and claim to be God's chosen people, when in fact they are of Lucifer." He also mentions that "in 1967 … Jerusalem fell to the Kenites during the 6 day war"; the Israelis, in fact, won the Six-Day War. In one sermon, Dennis Murray speaks of "the Kenites, who are responsible for the slaying of Christ." (In most Judeo-Christian traditions, the Kenites are a nomadic clan of Midianites and a tribe into which Moses married.)

The Serpent Seed is a belief ripped straight from the pages of "seedline" or "two-seed" Christian Identity theology, the hard-line version of the theology that holds that Eve was impregnated by Satan and gave birth to his son, Cain, described as the first Jew. That is, Jews are seen as biologically descended from Satan, and are allegedly hard at work preparing the earth for his rule. Identity adherents also argue that whites, not Jews, are the real Hebrews of the Bible, and that non-whites are sub-human "beasts of the field" created without souls.

Rarely does a month go by without the elder Murray warning his followers about the Kenites. "Bless your heart if you have ever been deceived by the Kenite, and I am speaking now on the spiritual level, if you have ever really believed that group was the chosen of God, you were deceived by Satan," Murray says in one popular audio tape sermon. "Repent of that even more so than your personal sins in the personal sense."

For their part, longtime Shepherd's Chapel students, seeking to avoid what they feel is Satanic deceit, believe they must learn how to "identify" a Kenite. On Internet forums where Shepherd's Chapel followers congregate, there is much debate over the racial identity of the Kenites. On a Shepherd's Chapel MySpace group, some ask whether the Kenites might be of Asian ancestry. But over on TheSeason.org, a long-running forum for Shepherd's Chapel students, there's little ambivalence. Numerous essays, citing the anti-Semitic hoax, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, claim that the Kenites and the Jews have long plotted world domination.

Paul Stringini, a former Shepherd's Chapel student, told the Intelligence Report that Murray "promotes what I would call soft resentment against Jews." "He'll say he loves the Jews, it's the Kenites he doesn't like," say Stringini. "Just try and nail him down on it. There's a semantic game that goes on. Frankly, the only real 'benefit' which I have ever seen of knowing ‘who the Kenites are' is that knowledge makes many people prejudiced against Jews … assuming they are 'Kenites.' I know that is not explicitly what Pastor Murray teaches but that is what it does to many Shepherd's Chapel students I have known."

1997 complaint filed with the Federal Communications Commission, which regulates broadcast media, argued otherwise. Shepherd's Chapel's broadcasts were one of the subjects of a complaint by former media company MediaOne (now part of AT&T) against Georgia's WNGM-TV in a dispute over market access. MediaOne alleged that "Shepherd's Chapel," then carried on WNGM-TV, "has purveyed racist dogma," citing claims by the program on Nov. 13 and 15, 1996, that "not all races can come from Adam and Eve," that "God created different races … and that's the way he wanted us to stay," and that the Biblical flood "was to destroy those [of different races] who had intermixed."

JB White;

Thank you for your links to your website and for the info presented there on Shepherd's Bible. Wow! What an eye-opener!

Just a fast glance and even a blind person could see that Murray is clearly a racist and anti-semite. He does well to keep his true agenda hidden from his fleeced flock by apparently only using the King James vers. publically.

Your website is a valuable asset on this group and their true agenda. I doubt many from Shepherd's Chapel visit The White Report to learn the truth about who they really are, historically, and what their pastors really believe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2009 11:21PM by Sparky.