I'm just wondering about this. While I've been researching, studying and trying to survive my own experience with a cult, I found that many are reluctant to call certain groups cults... Is it because of legalities? Afraid of being sued? Just wondering. Honest wondering. My group is called a cult by many but not all. Others decide to call them a "controversial group" What is the difference, can someone please explain...

Also, is there such a thing as a good cult? I hear the words "destructive cult" over and over. Does that mean or imply that there are benevolent ones? If so, can examples of such be given... Again, just wondering. I wonder a lot.

deelly
People who claim that they're evil are usually no worse than the rest of us,
it's people who claim that they're good, or anyway better than the rest of us,
that you have to be wary of.
~ Boq the Munchinlander from Wicked,
The Life and Times of Wicked Witch of the West
by Gregory Maguire

It's fairly well spelled out what constitutes a cult and/or a destructive cult. I'm sure you'll find 'our' definition somewhere on this site. I think you're right in saying that there is a difference between benign and malevolent cults.

From <dictionary.com>, referencing the American Heritage dictionary, please read the following:

1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
2. The followers of such a religion or sect.
3. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
4. The object of such devotion.
5. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
6. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
7. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
8. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
9. The object of such devotion.
10. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

Now, reading the above, obviously there are a number of ways to express cultish behaviour. This site is chiefly concerned with definitions for 1 to 4, 7 & 8. Of course, it would be foolish to target every definition of a cult and I don't think this forum is concerned with 'going on the attack' just because a 'group' or person fits this definition. Most often this forum provides a response to query, such as yours. Admittedly, I have no authority here except to say that within the constraints of the forum rules, we uphold freedom of speech. Please note: I am humble enough to accept the ruling of a moderator if I step outside these guidelines.

My interest in destructive cults comes from years of personal experience and research. Having said that, I do have strong opinions about certain (ie many) religious groups and communities. Nothing wrong with 'community' per se, but it gets frustrating when certain (ie many) of these groups (ie cults) act in destructive ways. I can't count the number of testimonials posted here about relationship and mental breakdowns. Yes, I will agree, that often there is a predisposition to both these breakdowns, but that doesn't make it any better if that breakdown is nurtured by a cult.

What I've seen regarding destructive cults is this sense of US and THEM. What I mean by this: you start you're life within a community (regardless of its dynamics) and on entering a pact with a destructive cult, you are asked (ie forced) to make a decision between this new community and the one you have to leave (ie family, friends, school, city, etc). Obviously, this is not always the case, but you'd be surprised how often this is the modus operandi of a destructive cult.

I'm curious, what group do you belong to?

That list can be applied to all religions.

I think some people are quick to label a group a cult because

a) They had never had any connection but think they are different or strange

b) rely on info from other people, sometimes which is not always truthful. Some people just want to rebel against what is right, And at the end everyone rallies around this rebel and holds them up as someone to listen to and trust.

But i agree there are big differences between Destructive and Controversal.

For example many people see the JW as a cult, over really the most littlest things. When in reality they are dedicated to their faith, believe in living a moral life etc. You will find the greatest critism of these people come from liberal minded people who dislike conservatives.

Jehovah's Witnesses. Now there's a huge spiritual joke! Let me tell you a story ...

A few years ago I was approached (as many are) by a couple of JW's named, Joseph and Mary. No kidding. They were in their 60s, I suppose, immigrated from Poland to Australia and for many months I enjoyed their company. Yes, I invited them in for a cuppa and a talk. At first, I listened to what they had to say. This went on for the first few visits and, being interested in all knowledge, I avidly listened, thumbed through my little Bible and made a few notes. This all changed when I started asking questions about the 'age of the Earth' and 'dinosaurs' and the odd inconsistency I had found in the Bible. They regarded me as a stranger from then on. Yes, they smiled their polite smiles and left. I never saw them again. No doubt they made their way to where they wanted to be ...

Miraculously, this story was to repeat itself a number of time later with other JW's that knocked on my door. They were happy for me to listen and pay a few cents for their magazine, but it was always a one-way street. They had something to sell and I wasn't buying. Well, I was interested in mutually discussing spiritual ideas, but, at the end of the day, they had an agenda that I consider quite sinister. Allegiance to their way.

BTW, Search4Tomorrow, yes, those definitions can be applied to most religions (and it doesn't stop with religions), but if you're genuine in your query, you'll do some further investigation of 'what a cult is' and add something a little more intelligent to this 'debate'.

You sound like an apologist. Are you affiliated with a particular spiritual group?

First of all, let me finish laughing. It's always so funny how things come around...

That I happen to ask a question and never said the name of the group I belonged to and it just so happens that you guys end up talking about the exact group I belonged to...

Yes, I was a jehovah's witness... I was born and raised in it til I was 16. I was lucky enough to get out early. My family has shunned me since. I've had the best conversation about the weather with my mother for the last 15 years when she bothers to contact me (every 2 to 3 years or 5) to find out whether I'm breathing or not. I was kicked out of my home at 18 and ended up homeless for a coupla days... (til my friend let me stay at her house). Been on my own ever since. No support from family or friends simply because I decided not to belief in "the truth" anymore.

The reason I asked my question was because I've heard many not call it a cult (which in my opinion it is) but a "controversial group" and wondered what was the difference is, if there is any. It started my mind on a roll... and I started wondering if there is such a thing as a group that is considered cultish but beneficial... (i seriously doubt it but wanted to pick people's brain).

deelly
People who claim that they're evil are usually no worse than the rest of us,
it's people who claim that they're good, or anyway better than the rest of us,
that you have to be wary of.
~ Boq the Munchinlander from Wicked,
The Life and Times of Wicked Witch of the West
by Gregory Maguire

Quote
deellymg
Yes, I was a jehovah's witness... I was born and raised in it til I was 16. I was lucky enough to get out early. My family has shunned me since. I've had the best conversation about the weather with my mother for the last 15 years when she bothers to contact me (every 2 to 3 years or 5) to find out whether I'm breathing or not. I was kicked out of my home at 18 and ended up homeless for a coupla days... (til my friend let me stay at her house). Been on my own ever since. No support from family or friends simply because I decided not to belief in "the truth" anymore.

Oh, wow, deellymg, sounds like your parents are 'real' Christian folk. Where the hell is their compassion, tolerance and forgiveness? I think that question kind of answers itself. Sorry, I don't mean any offense towards your kin.

It's bloody sad, though. But bloody good for you to stand on your own. It's tough, I know, and you may occasionally feel bitter and helpless that they judged you so harshly. I want to laugh, but I fear I might just cry. People! Aaaah, stupid, god-fearing people!

Yeah, what a spark of 'intuitive' brilliance that this thread, like some magic trick, revealed your 'spiritual' past. Coincidence. Just coincidence, I guess, until I have further information. Purr. What's that Sabrina? Oh, yes, I can see that too in your bowl of milk. William Blake might have said the whole universe is contained there. Purr. I know, I know.

Regarding the definition of cults, one of the fundamental requirements is that there is a guru or idol that the 'drones' follow blindly (see Elron Hubbard of Scientology fame or Jack Rosenberg of EST and Landmark fame ... or any string of shoddy eastern gurus with dozens of Mercedes and concubines).

Do the JW's have someone like this? Jesus doesn't count because, IMO, he is more or less imaginary. But, more importantly, Jesus doesn't have any one particular church that he runs, even though many claim him as their own.

Well. They are loyal to the ORGANIZATION. They call the borg "the loyal and discreet slave". They provide the "spiritual food" (with plenty of arsenic if you ask me) to their followers. So they follow a group of people rather than just one. These are leaders that dictate the policies that the average jw follow. Jw's are discouraged from reading the bible on their own since their feeble minds would never be able to comprehend it without the jw literature there to explain it to them.

They are highly organized and well trained. From counting the hours out on service (must make a minimum of 10 hours a month), to how many mags were left per month, to how many times you revisited to how many bible studies you have... etc... So when they come to your door, these are people who spend a great amount of their time on learning how to evade your questions, overcome objections and completely ignore whatever comes out of your mouth because you must listen to them. Not the other way around. They have a mission. To save as many as they can before Armageddon (which is just around the corner according to them it's always around the corner... huge corner that is) gets here...

And no, you are not allowed to question their policies. If you do, you'll find yourself in hot water and there have been many that have been disfellowshipped for asking the "wrong" questions or even going to outside sources to find out the jw information is wrong.

As to the comment of Jesus not having a particular church he favors, the witnesses BELIEVE THEY WERE CHOSEN by god himself. They consider any other christian church (or non christian beliefs) to be wicked and evil specially the Catholic Church (call them the whore of babylon). They're also paranoid about what they call "apostates" or people who speak out against their beliefs (mostly former members of jw's). They literally run the other way if you so much as utter the words " I was disfellowshipped" (I had them running from my porch once... very entertaining, never knew old ladies had that kind of stamina to hurdle over bushes and plants).

There's much more to say... but I think my post is long enough. As for my family... well, they are missing out. Next year, my husband and I are thinking of starting a family and they won't be a part of my future children's life. That's a decision they made and they have to live with. I'm now 31 years old. I had the grace and opportunity to have a life outside of the JW's. I woke up early. I feel so sad for people who spend their entire life, family friends and time in it and then find out it's all a lie. I have an ex-jw friend who lost 45 years of her life and over 60 family members. They won't speak to her. They want nothing to do with her.

At least I had the chance to not have to fight them over child custody in some court and so many other horror stories I've heard. I was lucky enough to survive without blood as a baby. So I consider myself very very lucky. And yeah, I get angry at my family and sad not to have one, but ultimately their love is conditional. And do I really want that? Do I want a family bad enough to go back into the jw's and swallow their crap FULLY KNOWING is crap just so that my family will talk to me again? I cannot do this to myself and still hold my head high. So, no thank you.

I thank you for your sympathies... and tell Sabrina, I don't believe in coincidences either!

deelly
People who claim that they're evil are usually no worse than the rest of us,
it's people who claim that they're good, or anyway better than the rest of us,
that you have to be wary of.
~ Boq the Munchinlander from Wicked,
The Life and Times of Wicked Witch of the West
by Gregory Maguire