Also, in regard to my last post, when I ask if you and the other members can fire the (Head) Pastor, I am not wanting a discussion of how "Great our Wonder Pastor is so we would NEVER fire Him but sure we could probably, maybe, I guess...uh...". The answer is YES, NO or I DON'T KNOW.

I am interested in your response. Since you are "currently active" here I will assume "no answer" means ezbuild may be correct in assuming you are merely an apologist for the church.

I did know first hand what was going on in his life…that’s why I made those claims. I know it sucks but it’s the truth and although it may not be pretty it is "helpful" in understanding the situation.


Not sure what church finance have to do with Lee’s disappearance but to my knowledge the church is open with finances, maybe you should ask him how much they pay me to be the church apologist. :)

I believe a pastor should be accountable and if he disqualifies himself should be removed/fired. Hope that helps.

urbanevangie:

Church finances are typically disclosed by an annual budget that details all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from tithes/church funds, which is distributed to all contributors or church members.

Does your church have that?

A pastor is typically accountable in Protestant churches through a democratically elected church board. Members are elected to fixed terms by the general membership of the church. The board is responsible for church finances and can dismiss a pastor.

Does your church have that?

I would also ask about your church's(DLC) finances. Are they transparent? Do you know where all the money goes? Can anyone disagree openly with your pastor(s) and still be a welcome member? Does the church hold elections? Does the membership have the ability to "fire" your pastor?





no to all the above....this church is not represented by it's members...only the chosen few(two) decide how to benefit the chosen ones .

I just stumbled upon this thread but definitely feel the need to step up and clear up some of the confusion here. I am a member of Desert Life Church, and have been for approximately six years. My name is Ryan Sanden. I am now 25, graduated (valedictorian) of electrical engineering from Arizona State in 2007, and was a member of the campus ministries at ASU. I now live in Sichuan China, and have not forgotten the excellent impact this church has had on me.

I knew Lee as an acquaintance, and I believe I know urbanevangie, "j", who is probably John. John knew Lee better than I did but I can pretty much vouch for what he has expressed. I talked to Lee at outings and Bible studies. The church, of course, provided as much of a positive environment as possible. It's a sad situation. No one knew Lee well enough simply because he was somewhat aloof, and he withdrew. Until being informed, I simply thought he moved. :(

Anyway, I also am deeply knowledgeable about Desert Life Church and what kind of people are running this institution. Pastor Troy is a man of basically faultless integrity. He is dedicated to Biblical truth, and in the six years I have known him, I have never felt anything "fishy". In fact I would drive around 45 minutes every week, twice a week, to attend services (and DLBI). There were other churches around, but, as they say, "a church alive is worth the drive".

I have completed the entire two-year "Desert Life Bible Institute (DLBI)" program, taught by Pastor Troy and Pastor Scott Adams. Regardless of the origin of the material, there was nothing taught that was subversive or biblically incorrect, and every point would be clarified by the pastors to ensure that it was interpreted hermeneutically-correct (that is, the meaning is true to its author's intent, inclusive of cultural norms that we as readers should be aware of). Classes were two to three hours long, each week for two years. There were tests. I learned a lot, not only about "Christianity" but other belief systems, apologetics, philosophy, theology, history, culture, interpretation of scripture, and even some relevent Hebrew and Greek.

I will now directly answer some questions:

(1) racecardriver: There was a church split between Pastor Troy Johnson and his senior assoc. pastor last year. I hear it was very bad and there has been no reconciliation. From what I hear, Pastor Troy displays all the characteristics of an insecure leader, which may have led to the church split.

No, it wasn't that bad. The issue was only one of timing. Originally the church made plans to start a new church plant in Chandler, because Scottsdale is far away (I was driving 45 minutes from Tempe; some were driving over an hour). The plans were canceled collectively by the church leaders (which is more than just "Pastor Troy") and the senior associate pastor who was going to lead it still felt it should be done. So, there was an argument, the church "split", which just means that many people close to Chandler started going to the start-up church, which the associate pastor basically did "on his own" instead of "with the group". But there was no sin involved. No weird dealings. Just a disagreement over whether now was the right time or not, which resulted in an associate pastor resigning and starting the church himself. The email sent by Pastor Troy is admonishing the 10% who were making rumors and jumping to false conclusions about what happened, before we had a chance to discuss it at the State of the Church Address that same year.

(2) ezbuild: i think this is kind of fishy that a church would respond so adamantly to an thread that is two years old and never makes an accusation. hmmm...

The title "Destructive Church or Cult" makes that accusation implicitly. I don't care if it's 3 years old now; I just found this thread. It is the third Google result on "Pastor Troy Johnson", and this is not a destructive church or a cult! Isn't that a valid reason?

(3) Sparky: In other words, were I the seeking relative I would have to say thanks but no thanks for your "help". How can you make such claims unless you know first hand how he disappeared and why and what he was feeling/thinking?

No one really knew what Lee was thinking or feeling. I certainly don't. But if anyone knew, John would.

> I would also ask about your church's finances. Are they transparent? Do you know where all the money goes? Can anyone disagree openly with your pastor(s) and still be a welcome member? Does the church hold elections? Does the membership have the ability to "fire" your pastor?

The finances are very transparent. We have an annual "State of the Church Address" where all of that is laid out (in powerpoint), and the numbers are third-party audited. Even the value of the building and outstanding loans are included. We also discuss issues and any member of the congregation can ask whatever questions he/she wants, getting a direct answer in front of everyone.

Sure, someone can "disagree openly" with the pastor and still be a 'welcome member', but that person would be expected to provide evidence that the pastor's views are unbiblical or incorrect. Pastor Troy will listen to anyone; he is not proud.

Does the church "hold elections"? Not in a "congregation-votes-each-year" sense. Did biblical churches in the Bible hold those types of elections? People should hear what they need to hear, not what they_want to hear. Biblical truths are timeless, and they must be explained by those qualified to teach. This church is run by levels of authority, with a council of elders at the top who keep each other in check. I know them personally, and they are honorable. I would direct you to Pastor Troy's sermons regarding this. ("The End" sermon comes to mind). Elsewhere (in the Proverbs series) he further explains this concept and encourages anyone to bring forth issues based on truth.

Can we fire the head pastor? Sure. Just talk to any of the group of church elders and explain why. You will *not* be ignored. But it doesn't happen, because our pastor *is* true to his word. It's hard to find pastors like this: someone you can sit under, learn from, and have confidence in. Someone you have tested personally and found to be a man of integrity.

(4) i see you: no to all the above....this church is not represented by it's members...only the chosen few(two) decide how to benefit the chosen ones .

On what basis do you make this claim? Are the finances transparent? (Yes). Can we disagree with the pastor and be welcome and respected? (Yes). Does the church hold elections? (Yes in the sense that the Elders elected him to lead). Does the membership have the ability to "fire" the pastor? (Of course)

If you don't believe be about the Biblical accuracy of Pastor Troy's teachings, then simply watch his sermons online, live-recorded:

[www.desertlifechurch.com]

In fact, My fiancee and I took the time to translate one of the sermons (45-min long) into Chinese, transcribing, proofreading, and recomposing the video. It took 100 hours. I would encourage you to take a look:

[download.ryansanden.com]

So, to say that this church and its Pastor is anything less than perfectly accountable for its actions is, at least from what I know, totally unfounded. The original poster is asking if we and this church had a negative influence on Lee. No. I believe we did everything we could to stand at the door and knock, but, in the end, that door was not opened.

Sincerely,
Ryan Sanden

you need to go to a real church where the congragation elects the officials...not the chosen elders.....you will quickly see what happens when budgets are detail to the actual payroll and handed out to all to review and pass the budget with a church wide election......transparent churches


the church grows and the pastor doesnt leave the loyal.......thats what happens

How is Lee doing now. I didnt know him but I did sit in on a few bible studies with him and Troy. Lee did try hard and the bible study of Troy and his brother in law Rudy was cultish in nature. I experienced it firsthand. Troy tried an exorcism on me calling my depression at the time "something demonic". During the 'exorcism' Troy's brother in law Rudy said "the Demon's tormenting him in his stomach" though I felt nothing uncomfortable in my stomach at all. Troy went beyond encouraging college students to seek Christ; he said they must also "make disciples". Rudy and Troy considered Lee someone that needed their "discipleship". How is Lee now? Hope he's doing ok.

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urbanevangie

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Greenaroo
The police managed to talk to my nephew's college friend/church pastor a week ago. He claimed not to have had any contact with my nephew for several weeks and didn't seem concerned about his disappearance. Our family thought this was most curious since they were such close friends and both deeply involved with this church. I couldn't help but wonder if my nephew's disappearance is somehow connected with this church.

Hi greenaro, it truly sucks having a family member missing and not knowing who or what to blame. for what its worth i wanted to respond to this post because i knew your nephew Lee Branson for almost 2 1/2 years before he disappeared and i was an eye witness to all the events leading up to his disappearance. I dont want you to take this in the wrong way but i only say these things to clear up the misunderstanding that PTJ & DLC as the ones to blame for this. The truth is DLC tried to help and lees disappearance is unfortunately a result of his own sin.

First off Lee was a very socially awkward person and so he had a way about him that was kinda funky but its all good because the way i see it is everyone deserves and friend and everyone in christ is part of Gods family. So i would reach out to lee and invite him to parties; bar b ques, life groups, ect. DLC even tried to help lee when he was homeless by giving him a place to stay but he later was caught with drugs and refused to repent and get right so he was asked to leave. He moved into an apartment where he would drink allot, keep his house a mess, and disconnect from society. Im not even exaggerating but he had a weird way around kids and once got angry and verbally exploded on a 12 year old in which i confronted him and asked him never to do that again. I was a friend with him through all this and even let him stay with me when he was in a tuff time and wanted to help him but there was certain parts in his life he would hide and keep in the dark. As a result he disappeared most likely haunted with shame. Im not saying this to bash you blood but just know your nephew disappeared because of his own sin and not the sin of another. We all know the darkness hates the light for fear its deeds would be exposed. When he disappeared many people including myself & Staff at DLC tried calling him but his phone was out of service. I even tried visiting his house only to find he had moved out without a trace. We all do stupid things in life so the goal is not to judge lee i do miss him and desire to see him again but all this accusation about DLC is simply a misunderstanding.

regards, j

I haven't visited this forum since the autumn of 2007. I was surprised to see this topic was still active. Urbanevangie's self righteous "blame the victim" diatribe was particularly repulsive. You claim to be a close friend yet speak of my nephew so disparagingly. ...Had a weird way around kids. ...Haunted with shame. ...Your nephew disappeared because of his own sin.

I originally posted here because my nephew was missing. Our family didn't know if he was dead or alive. All we knew was that he followed his former college friend and associate minister of the Desert Life Church to Arizona. A month later he was missing. With the help of law enforcement he was found living in a homeless shelter. It is my understanding that thanks to the DLC he was left a penniless and a broken man. If he is haunted with shame, it is no doubt because he was so easily duped, manipulated and discarded by the people of DLC.

I posted on here publicly to defend your nephew Lee and I believe your side of the story. I was there at TSU and witnessed how cultish Lee's friends at the time were. Troy Johnson and his brother in law Rudy considered Lee and me too as someone who was "their disciple". In Troy's album "I Will" (a gospel recording of his) Troy refers to his brother in law Rudy as "a light"; meaning a light to the world in a Christian sense. Rudy considered himself a religious leader who was Troy's disciple and me and Lee were considered Rudy's disciple.

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fcults
I posted on here publicly to defend your nephew Lee and I believe your side of the story. I was there at TSU and witnessed how cultish Lee's friends at the time were. Troy Johnson and his brother in law Rudy considered Lee and me too as someone who was "their disciple". In Troy's album "I Will" (a gospel recording of his) Troy refers to his brother in law Rudy as "a light"; meaning a light to the world in a Christian sense. Rudy considered himself a religious leader who was Troy's disciple and me and Lee were considered Rudy's disciple.

Actually, my side of the story is simply a recount of the circumstances, people & events surrounding my nephew's disappearance. However, I do find it interesting that although I never once mentioned my nephew by name on this forum, Urbanevangie knew exactly who he was.