Hello, I am new, my first post:

I guess I am confused by all of the posts as far as labeling a church a cult. Why cult? When does a church become a cult? When is what a pastor teaches heresy? How about blasphemy? Evil?

My opinion about Theime is as follows: I beleive he is a man who loves God, and has devoted his life to preach God's word. Is Theime infallable? No, but neither is any pastor.

As belivers we attend church to worship, give praise, receive communion, give an offering, learn God's word, etc. I have never seen Theime, listened to one of his tapes, or watched a DVD. I have read numerous books of his though.

If we agree that as belivers we attend church, then here is what may be happening. I think it is as simple as idolatry. Really I think it's that simple.

Lets take a little journey back in time. After Christ arose it was approxamatley 35 AD. John the last author of the Bible died around 100 AD. About 350AD the Catholic Church started rule over the Roman Empire. Around 1000AD the church split into the Orthodox Church, and the Roman Catholic Church. 300AD to about 1300AD was known as the "Dark Ages." Around 1350 the Reformation started. There were many reformers: Huss, Wycliffe, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, etc. You had the Church of England, Bloody Mary, Queen Elizabeth, the Spanish Inquisition, and other events. After 1000 years of Catholic rule by the Pope the world now had Catholics, Orthodoxy, Lutherans, Calvinists, Anabaptists, Puritins, Menonites, Presbeterians, Protestants, etc. The world was changing. Many of these reformers were persecuted, even burned at the stake. They were called Heriticts, some I would guess were considered cult leaders, or false prophets even.

Then came the age of enlightment, the industrial revolution, and here we are today. Along the way many great men of God studied, and wrote many study guides. This was all made possible from the reformers before them (I know, God is the real reason it was possible, but it was the men God used)Many different interpretations of the Bible were written. In the early part of the 1900's a man named Cyrus Scofield wrote a study Bible. In the mid 1900's a prodigy of his named Lewis Shafer published his Systematic Theology. Lewis Shafer founded the Dallas Theological Seminary in 1924. Guess who studied under him? That't right Theime. I know what you are thinking. Looks and sounds like a list of all the popes.

My point is that for the last 650 years or so, a lot of men have devoted their lives to studying God's word, preaching God's word, and spreading God's word. All of them have had their critics. All of them have died, or will die. All of them sinned over and over again. None of them were, or are infallable. Nobody ever will be infallable.

We have been blessed by the knowledge that is at our fingertips, and at the same time it can really be confusing. Just go to google and type dipensations, covenant theology, tounges, tithing, baptism, woman pastors. abortion, prophesy, etc. and you can spend hours reading pastors, theologians, doctors of theology, and plain old regular people all quoting scripture, and all contradicting each other.

Theime's books have aided me greatly in my walk with God, my spirtual growth, my understanding of God's will. My understanding of God's plan.

Back to the idolatry, but first one more thing. If Theime's "flock" look to him in idolatry, one could ask is that Theime's fault? Maybe, more on that later. If it's not idolatry, then it could be what Paul warns the church of Phillipi in his letter. He warns of pastors who put themselves first. Pastors who believe that the people are there because of themselves not because of God. Is Theime guilty of this? Maybe. One could say that any pastor who ends up where Paul is talking about could be called a cult leader. Or would he be a heretic? Again, I have no idea.

Back to the idolatry again. I think that many people for some reason idolize other people. Just pick up any magazine, or watch any news show. What is the top story? Britney Spears, OJ Simpson, Linsey L., Paris Hilton, etc. etc. etc. We are at war and the top stories on TV are about Britney, or OJ. So, with this mentality that seems to have taken over many people today it does not suprise me that a Christian would idolize a pastor.

This isn't something new. It happens at quite a few places. There are some larger churches that on purpose have different pastors each week to prevent this. To do this you would have to be a large church to be able to pay three or four pastors. I think it's a good idea, if financilly possible.

The question is this: Does Theime think, or did he think that the people came to see him, or to worship God? Did the 1000's of books and tapes get ordered to hear him, or hear God's word? Did his church grow because of him, or because of HIM?

Theime has a sin nature. I think it would be hard to accomplish everything he has, and not be tempted to think that he actually had something to do with it. I think it would be hard to stay humble, and to show humility.

As for Theime's theology, well that's a whole other topic. Like I said before just go to google, and type in any his theology, and you will find opponent & proponents.

This is a cult site, so therefore I am only trying to address the cult debate.

Like I said, I have read many of his books. I have never sent a penny to his church. I don't have a poster of him hanging in my bedroom. I pray to God the Father, through Jesus Christ.

Here is a good question for one to ask themselves. If you go regularly to a local church, and you like your pastor, and you like your church, ask yourself this. On the few days each year that your pastor goes on vacation, or is sick, and there is a guest pastor in his place, what goes through your mind the instant you find out your regular pastor will not be there, and there is going to be a guest pastor. Do you think something like "Gee, if I would have known this, I would have stayed home this Sunday?" If you have ever thought anything like that when your regular pastor is not there, than you may be an idolitor. My guess is that if there was a way to monitor these thoughts at Theime's church trouughout the years when he was away, most of the congregation were probably dissapointed when he wasn't there.

People are supposed to go to church to hear God's word, not Pastor Tom, Dick, Harry, Bill, Ted, or anyone else.

Again, is this Theime's fault, or the members? I guess one could argue either way. I guess that's why they call it a forum

One last thing for now. As belivers we are all part of the body. Our walk with God is as different as our fingerprints are. So are our sin natures. As we grow spiritually we become more knowledgeable of God's word. More understanding of God's will. Paul says beware for knowledge puffs out ones chest. If as a mature beliver we attend a church, and the pastor is misguided, or conveying something that we don't agree with, show wisdom, and thank the Lord that he has blessed you with the knowledge to even know the difference. There is nothing wrong with debating the Bible, as long as your true intent is to serve God, and glorify God while doing it.

We live where we can access almost anything on the internet. From the reformers to pastors today such as Theime, all of these men have aided Christians to discover the mystery doctrine that the Bible talks about. We haven't even scratched the surface, but think of the resources we have as compared to someone 200 years ago. Be thankful for every pastor who lived before you, and for their work. Trust God, and He will lead you to the right church, the right books, the right websites, etc.

Thankfully, God's word is abundent on the internet, and unfortunatley at the same time satan the prince of the cosmos is present there too.

Keep seeking Him, pray for Him to guide you on your journey, and love your fellow belivers that are part of the body, the bride of Christ.

Sorry, my first time. I meant for this to be a reply to the Theime forum