It was directed at anyone posting on this thread, which seems to be going in the direction of preaching personal religious beliefs.

[b:e7bb74ed83]Onlyme[/b:e7bb74ed83], I can only agree with your comments. I can remember two occasions clearly when, in a sunday service, two separate people have sworn out loud. The looks on peoples faces and the moving away, the atmosphere of shock and horror, how can that be a safe place for the average Joe like you and me?

[b:e7bb74ed83]Ekklesiana[/b:e7bb74ed83], do you think the 'powerful influence upon members to conform' is limited to churches, or is that in all walks of life?

[b:e7bb74ed83]Brainout[/b:e7bb74ed83], good point, and one I wrestle with myself more and more these days. Is church just becoming a social group for nice middle class people to feel safe in?
Not sure about church being a place to learn God. He takes on a different form for different people, so surely the best way to learn what God means for you is to read yourself, and explore and discuss your own perception without judgement? Another thing churches seem to be very poor at. I am the first one to admit there is a place for teachers and leaders, up to a point and if they are facilitators rather than dictators.

Do you guys see much evidence of gracious living in the church? Is it all people with agendas and circles of power? Is all church a cult? Are we (or church), as the mod seems to be hinting at, just trying to make people believe what we believe?

[b:e7bb74ed83]rrmod[/b:e7bb74ed83], not really sure what you mean by 'seems to be going in the direction of personal religious beliefs'. Are you telling us off for something we haven't done yet?

King David expressed in the Psalms..."Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of my enemies.", reflective upon (I believe) an experience of his--wherein he'd spent some time within an enemy camp, right? And, while (MANY YEARS ago) I were once led along among some "cultists", if you like--my becoming led by God, for God's own...purpose: that cult itself become overthrown via my having walked through its...enemy camp (receiving witness of...men, I "loved God": which meant to...themselves, their leader wasn't...God--as it was being purported, otherwise)there--one has sense of things of HAVING TO become in-line; on-track with other... people, right!? Of course, the veritable DIFFERENCE BETWEEN one's, say, "walking as others...walk--talking as others...talk"--is that one's, otherwise, "personally"...led, yeah?

And, if "personally"...led (via a "personal" relationship towards God through Jesus...Christ) one becomes LED INTO "personal beliefs", therein-walking--which..."beliefs", if from...God: are one's (in which we believe
"personally" in themselves--as they're one's we're...led unto our believing in them) in conformity with the Spirit of God, and, indeed, with the...Word of God, also--they are...most certainly COMMANDED TO "preach and teach" themselves...of Himself, however!!

The..."new covenant" between God and...mankind--wherein He writes His laws upon our hearts and puts them in our minds: that we ALL KNOW Him--is something very much..."personal", indeed, that (receiving Him) we are ALL TO...know Himself, "personally". And, yet...(if we're NOT TO "preach"--whatever that...means, exactly--nor, to express "personal beliefs") WHAT ARE WE to...talk about rrmoderator, exactly, else!!!? Or...? Is this-then to have become found..."A CULT": wherein to follow in-line and on-track IN CONFORMITY WITH...YOURSELF (not God's Word; nor, our leading by... Him, and, His...Spirit--leading us into what, indeed, we...PERSONALLY BELIEVE AND STAND...FAST TO ITSELF "believed", hopefully)?

I...mean--if there's PROBLEM WITH the "modern day" church world--part of that..."problem" MUST BECOME people's not "personally believing", not standing by those..."personal beliefs", AND, OF COURSE, NOT HAVING HAD ANY..."FORUM" OF EXPRESSION THERE (TOO...rrmoderator?): as, however, we are one's LED INTO personally believing in those things
...themselves, by God since their being of...Him; not ourselves, right?

Putting (effective?)..."cloture" upon how other people...BELIEVE (yes,
"personally": since that they...KNOW GOD, "personally", also:
Who...CAUSES THEMSELVES to preach "personal beliefs" of...Himself, however) then-puts...EVERYONE on-the-defensive, SHUTS DOWN open and honest...expression--and, creates..."CULT", actually?

Kemo

Do you want to know what one of the most powerful things you could do for people here. Acknowledge that people have been hurt by the christian church, but more importantly allow those people room to be angry, because by being able to express anger in an appropriate manner, can hurt people begin to process things and move towards healing and wholeness

As for relationship Christianity, versus religon. Its kind of rabbit hole. I have done work in the past for an outreach to pagans and occultisms, but also offering support for people who have come to Christ from an occult background. One of the things I noticed time and time again was that ex occultists quite often ended up feeling most at home in a traditional denomination

In terms of spiritual abuse, I have noticed that the most commn denomination where this occurs is amoung charismatic and penticostal churches. Does that mean I brand all penticostal churches as spiritually abusive heck no, there are some awesome churches out there doing alot of Good work.

I know that was always preached at CIC, that traditional denominational churches were dead churches where the Spirit never moved and God had abandoned and that CIC was the oonly church apart from DCI that was walking with God. However I would say the same to you, just because you may have had a bad experience with a traditional denominational church, dont paint all of them with the same brush

I am currently attending an anglican church in Auckland, and I can say with out a boast that we are probably one of the only churches in Auckland that the most sustained growth over the last 12 months. I dont say it to boast, I say it because this perception that traditions have no place in a relationship with Jesus Christ, is wrong and it is potentially cutting you off from amazing opportunities and experiences

Indeed, the difficulty within even wanting to make broad spectrum conclusions--considering, as a whole, the "modern-day" church--misses the point of which there is such a wide...diversity-present, yes? And, if bad experiences (as they're...bound to be: the day of Pentecost having arisen out of the "crisis" of Christ's death, and...resurrection--leaving the disciples at-a-loss 'til receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit, likely, then, only) drive ourselves closer to...God: that corresponds towards "all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose", aye? (I had attempted making point, earlier on: God is not restricted as per where or how He may...work--while, also, continuously pointing towards things whereof He wills we...work, together, yes!!?)

My own experiences of...cults, or, otherwise to have become "extraneous" experiences--real ones, indeed; but, superfluous...diversions, meanwhile, only--became that...they weren't the real "answer" (which His leading me back to...Himself, alone, was "it", yeah...?).

God...bless, always!!!

P.S. It's alike the "pearl of great price": once, one has realized what (rather...Whom?) that "pearl" is--one sells all...else, yes?

disapperindave:

Are you here to preach?

I am not certain how to be responding towards this...question: Am I here to preach? (Although within personal correspondence I had mentioned that wording--as well as teaching...there as well.) But, put forth within a direct...questioning--as though I had entered this site "to preach here", perhaps--I cannot identify having had that...motivation, really. I met a couple recently--have been helping them along, "partnering" in our efforts somewhat, within difficult circumstances facing themselves. Anyway, within various stories I had told themselves: they'd told myself I was "a healer"--clear and obvious to...themselves: while leaving me somewhat oblivious towards the...description. And, so...that--if I'm "here to preach"--it would become something more obvious to...another; than myself, likely, as well? Am I..."preaching": sharing the...truth? And, if I would be sharing other than...itself: what would that...be--for any would-be purpose here, exactly? If I would have "an idea"--about which I can relate to it's concept--it would become desirable "comparing things spiritual": whereupon a real "relationship Christianity" does, indeed, exist: within each of ourselves...sharing things spiritual (we've experienced them). So? That's the best reply I could...give itself--if sounding alike "preaching", I wouldn't have intended more or other than...sharing ideas along those lines of my being led into their own..."discovery"? But..."Am I here to preach?" ala intent towards myself having had any forum for...
"preaching", I think...not: as far as...intentionality goes, anyhow. (Maybe, that's an answer difficult to...accept itself--seeing how, in email, I did using that...wording, "preaching" there. If I am..."preaching", perhaps, it's...the Spirit of God--leaving myself more...oblivious, I suppose? But...No--not with intention to become provided "a soapbox", I don't...think THAT, truly. Yet...? When the apostles and prophets--the Psalmist or...whomever--have written down whatever "thought" it was given....themselves: were they INTENDING TO write..."scriptures" to live by, exactly, either? That...is: was it "of them"--ala the previously-stated commentary about..."personal beliefs"--along those lines of it's being of oneself-wanting to...preach; or, "preaching" simply...coming out, otherwise? I think if there's...motivation: it would become making connections and having a..."relationship Christianity", actually, however? [Redundancy...aside.])

This thread has focused largely on areas such as relgious theology and preaching.

This is not the purpose of the message board.

This thread has been locked down.