Im a Penticostal christian... the issue is i and many others are not the best christian....i feel like christianity is sooo hard when i know it is soo easy...ppl look at christianity as a religion like catholicism, buddhism and all that stuff...and sometimes it can be...but there are two types of christians...there are religious christians and there are relationship christians...i cant stand the christians that go to church because they have to, tithe because the Bible says to and all that jazz...i can't stand ppl that put God in a box...they are the religious type...religion isnt a belief, it is a ritual and a habit...smoking is a religion...christianity for me is a relationship...its like your married to someone. every day you learn stuff abou the person, but you need to put into the relationship as well....that means you gotta take time out to learn God...as you grow older, your relationship grows stronger, so on a so forth..picture it like a marriage...

second thing that is bugging me is this, people are too bound by acts. you see all these churches that are always out doing missionary stuff and all that yet they are so far from God it isn't funny. i can't stand this, i've been to so many churches that are soo deed based its not funny. while they are out there trying to save the world, their congregation is dying because they are not being filled by God's presence coz it is non existant in that deed based church...

thirdly, who the hell thinks that God planned on being in a box...stupid idea i know...as if anyone could ever place a time limit on God? but most churches do...they sit there and plan each sunday...half an hour for praise and worship, 10 minutes to talk about why we must tithe, 10 minutes for communion and then 20 minutes for preach and we can all be out of church by 10am so we wont miss out on the football and lunch...this is why God is not being released and seen in Australia, because we box him in because we are too materialistic....we don't have time for God and we miss out because of it...

fourthly, tithin...we don't HAVE to tithe. tithing is a choice and is a principle. principle meaning it applies to everyone...a satanist could tithe 10% a week and still gain profit and blessing from it because it is a universal principle...God does not expect us to tithe and if i am wrong then i'll be judged...i believe that if we are tithing because we fear that God expects us to, then we are tithin for the wrong reasons and it becomes a religion...if you wanna tithe, talk to God about it and ask him were he wants your money to go...

finally this...i suck at being a christian...i am the worst example there is because i am only human...that is the problem...ppl put us on a pedastool and expect us to be perfect and when we screw up they diss christianity and tear it apart. the fact is i am just as human as anyone else...i try my best to be a good christian and its not easy in this world...i've changed and i am not always hapy with who i have become...but God's love is never ending and his hand, both his hands always reach out to us...the first to cover the sin we have committed, the second to show us his loving grace...


Thanks for reading. (once i have written enough posts) Feel free to message me and talk to me about this. i know for a lot of people is is contriversial.
Also feel absolutly free to post any replys down.

Kemo

Well, gee Kemo, these were some of the things that were bugging me. Finally, it was the Lord himself that drew me out of the apostate church that he warned about in the book of Revelations, the Laodician church.

I struggled with and pondered these questions for several years, and kept wondering why I saw no example of the way the early church was set up operating in these so called spirit-filled churches I'd attended.

Now, it's taken several years out of the mess to see things more clearly, and to shake all this off me. And I know that I not only don't want to go back, but God doesn't want me to. The apostate church can't be reformed, it can only be abandoned. If one looks at these churches with discernment.......and from a distance, one can see that there is a subtle but powerful influence upon members to conform.

The question is, just how bad does it have to get before one could consider churches like this to be considered a cult? Jesus said a little leaven, leavens the whole lump.

From the previous post the following words caught my attention, saying...
"kept wondering why I saw no example of the way the early church was set up operating in these so called spirit-filled churches".

Emerging from the 1990 National Rainbow Gathering (held, locally) wherein I was...Spirit-led to have establishing an outreach of "love and good works" (disappearing Dave's Christian Kitchen) there, I was VERY MUCH drawn into the concepts of our...failures to present as Christiainity--a body of Christ reflective of the earliest church (ecclesia...meaning called out ones: which the word "church" was inserted to represent...that idea).

The Rainbow Gathering...itself--surrounding a community-of-life, our "kitchen" there--represented MUCH OF the earliest church ideals: being gathering in one...place, having all things in common: EACH ONE having something to share of themselves (in Christ, hopefully).

Hi there,
Interesting post, enjoyed your comments a lot thank you for sharing. I heard a great sermon on sunday about Galatians 3. It's a bit of a complicated passage for me (bein a bit of a thickie) but the guy speaking was really good. He talked about the new covenant, and how we do not receive the spirit by obeying the law, but by faith and believing. Is a debate that could probably run and run about obeying the commandments, the law restricting sin etc...
What I was wondering is, what place do you think the modern church has in the world? How relevant is it? Of what relevance is the church to us as Christians? No Church is perfect (sick of hearing that one) but it seems less and less relevant, less and less perfect with each generation... Or is that just me?

To be answering your question (one must always look towards the "Author and Finisher", Jesus Christ: within revelation as corresponds between the Word of...God, the Spirit of God, and, the leading of our...lifetimes: "led into all truth" through the baptism of the Holy Spirit, especially) one faces somewhat..."difficulty"--TO THAT, each individual's..."walk" (having received Jesus Christ within...them--having received what He came for our receiving...that, also; to be baptised in the Holy Spirit and fire) makes their own experience SOMEWHAT "unique", and, yet...?

Matthew 23 forewarns ourselves about certain "orientations"--one's about which (almost "at best": seeing as how much churches DO NOT begin even speaking about...receiving Him; if...that--not about an actual New Testament..."spirit-led" assembly, thereafter...probably: not one wherein the "least comely" oft have the most important contributions to make themselves...crucially; AND, ON...unfortunately, right?). But, to be saying "less and less relevant" is to DISCARD THE relevancy about which MUCH (found within the...church world at-large) IS THAT "scribe, Pharisee hypocrite" thing He WARNS US about itself: making the church ENTIRELY "relevant"; in that it leads ourselves to be realzing those truths about...itself, Christ told us them!? Since...? The "ecclesia"--who are the called out...one's: whereas, I was told...once, King James had installed the wording..."church", otherwise--are called unto...Him, yes!!? (And, if that's a type of...separation--spiritual or otherwise--FROM THAT about which He...warns ourselves: it's "working together for good to those who love Him and are called according to His purpose" since it DRIVES ONE to Himself...MORE, hopefully!!!? ["Worst case"...it causes other's stumblings--about which He warned others...ABOUT THAT, "big time", huh: "better they be drowned, and, cast into the depths of the sea"...yeah--which, unfortunately, I...believe I've witnessed itself having happened... LITERALLY alike...a drowning of some one(s?) else.]) One CANNOT BECOME utterly..."chategorical": seeing as how...that--ala Christ--if HELL ITSELF had no hold over...Him; has no hold over they in whom He...is: whom He won't ALLOW ITSELF having "hold", either (me, once), then, the church world is...many different things to many people (including some being "a den of thieves" to BEWARE THAT, likely...?). I was DRIVEN TOWARDS my first...prayer: "Lord, if I ever come to you--let it be out there.", said as I looked across a large unto (a northern forest) "the hills, from whence cometh my help, my help comes from the Lord"--WHEN A pastor was laying upon us...Christ said "such like is as the kingdom of heaven" EVIL ONE'S to that...pastor, meanwhile, however? Hmm...?

God bless...always!!?

Help!

HELP help "help" I think is what you were trying to say!

In simple terms (!)... I'm not sure the church has a place in modern times, as it isn't really holding out relevent and practical and real answers to people's problems from what I can see. There are some good principles to live by, some encouraging things that I know have helped me through difficult times, but for the every day hum drum, I feel there are too many complications (as above) with christianity that tie you up in knots rather than free you up to be yourself and live a simple honest, life.

I would be difficult to judge if it was getting less and less perfect with each generation as we weren't there in previous generations, and it would be subjective and unscientific to make this assumption. If you mean by less and less perfect, more sinful, it could be that it appears more people are in sin than they used to because they are more open about it than they used to be, and less afraid of the consequences as there haven't been many lightening bolts from heaven recently that I know of. Again, just one of the variable that would make it difficult to assess how the church has changed over the years.

Duno if that makes sense to people like?!! :roll:

Polar Bear, why be in a church? If the reason is just to feel spiritual and be with people, heck you can socialize anywhere.

But isn't 'church' supposed to be about learning God? So wouldn't it be about getting taught Bible, so you can actually read it yourself and know what it means? That's the purpose back in OT times.. wouldn't we still need that now?

Having said that, I don't know what else a 'modern' or ancient church OUGHT to be...

Please don't preach here.

Who was that directed at please?