Hello all,

Interesting site, however just to balance the books a little..... I attend a Potters House church here in the UK and must say I have experienced very little of the goings on that you seem to have in the US. I have been here now for over 7 years and in that time have nothing but praise foir the work of the church in this area.

I have heard all the goings on about church splits etc but I think that has been down to individual Pastors and headship issues rather than a general 'this is a cult ' mentality.

Just my humble view :) :?

Potter's House UK, like all the Potter's House churches in Christian Fellowship Churches, is controlled by Wayman Mitchell and his gang.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Also see the following threads within this message board:

[board.culteducation.com]

[board.culteducation.com]

[board.culteducation.com]

[board.culteducation.com]

[board.culteducation.com]

[board.culteducation.com]

[board.culteducation.com]

[board.culteducation.com]

Mitchell and his pastors have a history of complaints, church splits bad press and court litigation going back more than 20 years.

No one really knows where the money goes other than Mitchell, his pastors and the appointed few.

There is no independently audited financial statement that is published disclosing all salaries, compensation and expenses.

Mitchell and his pastors rule like petty tyrants. There is no democratically elected church government voted upon the general membership that can hold them accountable to discipline through a constitution and bylaws and/or fire a pastor.

I have received repeated complaints about Potter's House in the UK. And these complaints are much the same as those received about Mitchell's churches in the US.

In our church we have a vote each new year to elect 2 members of the congregation who act as church council to ensure all decisions (including financial ones) are legitimate. The Pastor is then held accountable to this same council for his financial spending and general issues governing the running of the church., so effectively in our church we have control of the Pastor and his finances :roll:

Isn't your church a member of Christian Felloship Churches run by Wayman Mitchell?

Does the church have an election for the council positions that you have mentioned by a secret ballot?

Is there a slate of candidates nominated for council?

How are they nominated and the election organized?

Is this all mandated officially through a church constitution with bylaws?

Can the council fire the pastor?

Can the pastor dismiss council members?

Is there an independently audited financial statement that is published and distributed to all members, which details all salaries paid out, any and all compensation and expenses?

What are the educational requirements for a pastor?

1) Yes the church is a CFM church.
2) Elections are carried out by secret ballot.
3) There are normally 4 candidates nominated by church members.
4) Nominations are put forward to the Pastor a month in advance by church members and when the ballot takes place the papers are handed out to all congregation members who then tick 2 boxes for the people they want elected and place in the ballot box.
5) This process has been in place for many years and seems to work well.
6) If the Pastor is in gross misconduct or preaching funky stuff then yes the congregation can request his removal.
7) Again this would have to be only if the council member had done something to bar him from that position.
8) We have a 'breakdown' sheet which is set out as a financial statement of which a copy is given to all church members each year and an informal meeting held to discuss the issues. I agree though that there should be an independent audit of the finances.
9) This is an issue that has long been debated in many churches and is the subject of huge debates. Personally I would rather have a man who studies the bible and researches the contents than one who is 'taught' in a school.
:)

Why are nominations sent to the pastor?

Does he in any way decide who may appear on the ballot?

Can the pastor dismiss council members?

So there are no educational requirements for a pastor?

So there is no independently audited church financial statement?

"'breakdown' sheet"?

Doe this sheet specifically state the salaries of church staff, the pastor's salary and benefits any and all compensation and expenses paid out?

In number 7 you say, "this would have to be only if the council member had done something to bar him from that position."

So then the pastor can dismiss a council member?

What process of approval would the pastor be required to submit to in order to do that?

Do you specifically have a church constitution with bylaws that provides for a process of elections in detail, proceedures for the dismissal of a pastor or council members?

You said, "the congregation can request his removal."

Request to whom?

Who would be able to dismiss your pastor?

1) Well for the obvious reason that someone may decide to nominate a new convert or someone who is obviously unfit to stand as a church council member.
2) Only to the extent outlined above.
3) Yes. As answered in the previous post.
4) Why should there be ??
5) Agree with you on this one, there should be an independent audit :)
6) Using the terminology stated elsewere on this forum ;)
7) The sheet outlines all salaries and payments of every kind.
8) Yes.
9) The congregation can request the church council to request a meeting with the Pastor Brown from the leadership church in London.
10) As 9.
11) Pastor Brown.

OK here is what has been established thus far about your UK church.

Your pastor has effective control of the nomination process. If he doesn't approve of someone nominated, they don't appear on the ballot.

There is no independent audit, so the "sheet" outline may or may not be correct and the congregation has no way of knowing independently.

The congregation may not dismiss the pastor. He can only be dismissed by another pastor higher up in the Mitchell organization.

There are no educational requirements for a pastor. He may not have attended seminary, college, nor is he even required to have a high school diploma.

You have no church constitution with bylaws that specifically detail an election process or council. Whatever occurs is determined by your pastor and may be changed and/or suspended by him.

He may reject the advice of council and do what he thinks is right despite their objections. And he can dismiss them.

OK.

A few more questions.

How much is your pastor paid exactly in salary according to the sheet you mention? Does it specify an exact amount? And what benefits and/or other compensation does he receive?

Did your pastor start your church?

How was he hired?

Who would decide upon his replacement if he left?

Does your church pay a percentage of its total tithes to the church that sent your pastor out?

1. The last balance sheet showed him as receiving £ 6725 salary and in addition he is paid an amount towards his utilities. (£230)
2. No, the current Pastor is the third Pastor of the church.
3. He had been a long standing disciple in the church for years and was appointed when the previous Pastor left to pioneer elsewere.
4. At a guess I would say the Walthamstow church would send someone to replace him.
5. Yes, I believe it is 10%.

mrsnoopydoo:

There is very little differnece between your UK church and other Christian Fellowship Churches in the US under Mitchell.

Here are the only differences, which you have of any consequence:

The salary and compensation paid to your pastor is disclosed on a sheet, though there is no way to verify this through an independent audit. You must simply accept that the sheet is correct and truthfully stated.

Your church has a two-man council elected by the membership that advises the pastor, though your pastor controls the nomination process, may disregard the council's advice, dismiss the council whenever he wishes and then abolish it.

There is no church constitution or bylaws that enforce otherwise.

Other than these very weak provisions, according to your statements, there is no difference between your UK church and others in the US under Mitchell's control.

Christian Fellowship Churches may dismiss any pastor if it wishes and replace him with another as it pleases.

Christian Fellowship Churches, unlike most Protestant denominations, has very little if any meaningful accountability to its general membership.

You have not demonstrated otherwise here.