Ginger,

Both are true. When pastor Ray McCollum stepped down then there were many that left the church. At the same time the church started to grow. I was in the Marine Corps at the time so I had to be caught up on it all when I came back. Rice also brought more structure... which is a mark of an apostle and he also is an over seer of many churches as well. Yes, the mark of the apostles were signs and wonders. However, we must remember that is only a sign that they are apostles. Take note that the anti-christ will perform signs as well. That is why I say he is called... "many are called but few are chosen" we must first prove ourselves before god will use us in that ministry. Even more so a pillar. If he isn't doing those things yet then perhaps he hasn't grown to a point that he has the maturity to do those things. Only God knows.

I have a friend that has always served God in the best way he could. When I started ministering to him prophetically it really got his attention. These are other stories. But I know that he is called to be an apostle, but he isn't yet. Much maturing to do before he is anything like Smith Wigglesworth or A.A. Alan.

Annointing. He may not have annointing to preach the word with conviction... and I do know what you mean about annointing... but he is annointed to do what he does. God places annointings on certain people, but there is no help when it is gone. This is why he can get away with the stuff that goes on there. Like Moses and Aaron (I think it was). Aaron has an annointing from God to do what he did, and he would sin and nothing would happen. Miriam came against Moses' authority and she got judged for that instantly. Finally Moses took Aaron in front of Israel and stripped his robe of and with it was his annointing, instantly he died. This is important because there are many people out there that are annointed to preach/teach God's word but there is sin in their life. One day a prophet, like Moses or even Elijah, will confront them removing their annointing and they will instantly be judged.

I do find it sad that there are many people called to be prophets but give up to easy and won't do what the Lord has called them to do. Result is an imbalanced church where there are more demons in attendance than Christians.

Hamrick

Ginger,

I will check out those websites in a moment. All this info would have been great when I was first asked to leave the church. It was a confusing time for me. Seeking God's will, stepping out in faith and the church of all people treating me like a sinner.

I have learned a great deal about God's word and especially hearing from him on my own. I know God gives gifts to people like the ability to sing or play an instrument, neither of which I have. I do however read the word and understand it. It seems so simple to me, just like my ability to fix just about anything without formal training.

I just wish that more people could hear the Lord like me. I know Moses prayed that but I understand now why he prayed that. I know the Lord wants us to work together not independant of one another and that is why there are people that can do this or that. Because I understand the word I also have to explain it. Which I find to be dangerous. Too many people will listen to anyone and be led astray. They will not test prophesy and when prophesy is given it is so wonderful and vague. I know when I prophesy that I'm very specific so that it can be tested.

Phil came to Bethel once when I was there. I was really too young to know any better. I assumed when I left that they were much the same. Just like a friend of mine that "discipled" me. I could tell that he didn't care much for me anyway and didn't like it when I called him on it. I met him after I left the church and told him that the reason I believed Lyndie was my wife was because that is my job. I don't have to perform the miracle and I don't have to figure it out, my job is just to believe. In the middle of seeing all that he still follows them. Many have hardened their hearts to the truth.

You said that God would take them down, I agree. It is no concidence that I went there only to defy them out of serving the Lord and not them. They are the "Heart" of Morningstar. Rice Broocks, Jim Laffoon, etc... I had a dream after I left that was so clear. It was like I had the dream before and recalling it in my dream. I know that God destroyed that place and I showed up and told them "I tried to tell you but you wouldn't listen"

I serve a Holy God. If he judged Sodom and Gomorrah and won't judge what the world is now then he will have to apolagize Sodom and Gomorrah. Because he is true to his word then they will be judged. It is like he is waiting on the cross for one more theif to repent before it is too late. Grace will only go so far.

Hamrick

Here are some interesting articles that examine the warning signs of abusive churches or leaders.

[www.watchman.org]

[www.culteducation.com]

Some general waring signs regarding groups or leaders--

[www.culteducation.com]

When some people say "discipleship" they may actually mean a very manipulative form of control.

See the following links:

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

Typically, the more accountability a church or leader has the safer the situation is.

That is, an independently elected board can hold the pastor accountable. And financial transparency is important. An independently audited and published financial statement that reflects any compensation paid out and all the organization's expenses is meaningful. Also a denomination umbrella can hold the church and its leaders accountable by setting standards.

It seems that the more checks and balances are in place, the less likely a group, church or leader is to become destructive and/or abusive.

Dear HamrickCE,

I read your story, but I honestly must tell you, I am
worried for you.
You say you are able to predict events before they
happen.


Acts 16:16
"It happened that as we were going to the place
of prayer, a slave-girl having a spirit of divination met
us, who was bringing her masters much profit by
fortune-telling. "

This may not be God's gift.
If not, then whoever gave this to you may have
a motive to deceive you and others.

Do all your predictions come true?
NASU

Deut 13:1-5
If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among
you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the
sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which
he spoke to you, saying,' Let us go after other
gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve
them,' you shall not listen to the words of that
prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD
your God is testing you to find out if you love the
LORD your God with all your heart and with all your
soul. You shall follow the LORD your God and fear
Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen
to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him."

So many people who desire to worship God fall into
a trap. They worship God's Son, who is the
beginning of creation by God. (Colosians 1:15-16)
And forget it was Jesus' Father, his GOD, who also
raised him from the dead.

(Deut 18:21-22)
"When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD,
if the thing does not come about or come true, that is
the thing which 'Yahweh' has not spoken. The prophet
has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be
afraid of him."

Yahweh is the Hebrew name of GOD. He is the same
God Jesus spoke of when he said the following
statement:

(John 20:17)
'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and
My God and your God.'"
,
Rev 3:12
12'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in
the temple of My God, and he will not go out from
it anymore; and I will write upon him the name of
My God, and the name of the city of My God, the
new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven
from My God, and My new name."

It is a fine thing that you trust in Christ Jesus' words.
If we cling to every word he spoke, which his father
and his God gave to him to give to us, then I
can fairly say 'you will do well.'
But, if one doesn't make sure of what we are
taught by men, then we can be mislead.
Like the Bereans, who were spoken of as being
more noble minded because they compared what
was being spoken by men, to God's word, the Bible.

I was born and raised in a denominational Ecclessia,
but until I searched God's word and compared doctrine,
I quickly found I was not being taught correctly.
Now I eat the bread and drink the wine, just as
Jesus (Yahshua) instructed. Some have said this
was only given to the disciples of Christ. But when
I read all of Jesus' instructions, I could see this is
for all who want to obey GOD. (Matt 28:19)

Just be very careful and know I care very much for
you.

landover