Azusa has made the same point again and again and again.

Walter Martin (now deceased) and Dave Hunt are both clearly coming from a Evangelical Christian religious perspective based upon their beliefs and offering up their theology.

Martin and Hunt are certainly entitled to believe what they want, but that doesn't objectively make Roman Catholicism a "cult."

And Catholic bashing is not what this board is for.

Frankly, one man's "Orthodox Christianity" is another man's Roman Catholicism. In fact Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic Christians are the oldest existing form of historic Christianity, along with perhaps the Coptic Christians.

Who's to say that they are not the "Orthodox Christians"?

Again, Azusa's rebuttal would likely be based upon his reading of the bible or someone else's.

And once again, that would be essentially a theological argument.

However, this is not a site to promote a certain religious viewpoint, such as many of the links Azuza offers up.

Sad to say I was in a very controlling, spiritually abusive church. When my husband and I left, my 21-year-old son was told to move out of our home because we were "full of demons". He choose not to leave our home and his fiance was encouraged to call of their wedding (which she did) because my son is 'rebellious' for not obeying the Senior Pastor.
I didn't agree with most of what they did, including not allowing anyone to see their financial statement and having no accountability. So first, I quit my job after 8 years of working there. Then, my husband who worked their for 2 years, quit because he was told "Keep your wife quiet, she is making me (referring to the Senior Pastor) look bad". He told the Senior Pastor that I had the right to my opinion. And that ended everything for him.
So just based on this small bit of information, (I could write pages and pages of similar situations) I would say I was in a cult-like Church!

In fact Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic Christians are the oldest existing form of historic Christianity>>>

The above statement is not true since the Catholic church did not exist until the third century unless you are reading Catholic History. It has been proven by James White that Catholic histour is unreliable. The Greek orthodox claim to be first and the RC ckaim to be first. Neither one were. Christians were first.

Azuza:

It seems that your purpose on this board is to advance your religion, argue theology and bash Catholicism.

That is not what this board is for.

The Greek Orthodox Church and Roman Catholic Church are the two oldest existing Christian churches in the world today.

Their history, as you point out, comes before any Protestant church such as the Baptist or Pentecostal churches.

The only possible exception might be the Gnostic groups, which died out. Of course the Coptic Church is also quite old.

Again, this board is not for you to promote your personal religious views.

And the long posts and links you have copied previously clearly are a repeated effort in this direction.

The Greek Orthodox Church and Roman Catholic Church are the two oldest existing Christian churches in the world today.

Their history, as you point out, comes before any Protestant church such as the Baptist or Pentecostal churches.>>>


My answer to this has nothing to do with bashing the RCC but to correct your misconception that the RCC was the first church. The first church was not any denomination such as the RCC. If you are talking about an organized denominational church then you are correct but the RCC did not exist as a "denomination" until the fourth century. That has nothing to do with bashing anyone. The Orthodox was a split from the RCC in the eleventh century.

Thanks for the interesting link on the history of the Coptic Church.

Here are some links on the issue of defining "cults."

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

I would have to say that I have known a group that is fairly destructive in nature but not a cult. Not outright at least.

The Capital Hill Baptist Church operates a site called www.christianity.com

This site is used to recruit christians, sell them books tapes, seminars etc. They are outright advocates for Church and State, and they believe that the USA was founded as a Christian State.

Their motto.... as seen on www.capitolhillbaptist.org

"Excercise an affectionate care and watchfullness of each other"
"Bare each others burden and sorrows"
"Walking in Brotherly Love"

These people run a company called LifeAudio.com, they are all or nothing born-agains and they believe that EVERYTHING BUSH is okay, so far to point out that anything other than Bush is unChristian.

They are borderline cultish if you ask me. Watching your every decision, and ruining peoples lifes through judgementalness.

Christianity.com and the Capital Hill Baptist's apart from believing that BUSH is doing God's Will, they believe that all other faiths and denominations are evil and demonic. Any action that a true Christian takes, is fare better than the acts of all other nations and faith groups.

They demand that you embrace a born-again view or you are banned from their community for life. The Bible is the Word of God and every dot on every "i" is law.

Using this logic they have found many topics to twist. Inner-racial Marriages, Gay rights, War on Terror, Womens Rights.

Their pushing of END-Time scripture is also a little disturbing. Everything is a sign of how the world will end. They promote seminars like "The Evangelist Explosion" and they believe Amway companies are good and up-standing solely because they are Christian based.

If you disagree in anyway on any point, you are gone.

1) Am I able to ask questions without being turned away by leaders and members?
We can learn a lot from Jewish Rabbis. 8) They constantly ask questions to your questions, so they can understand where your comming from. Jesus did the same thing when he walked this planet. :shock:

2) Is the teachings of the organization consistant with the orginal texts and creeds?
No holy books are "cut-and-paste" jobs by the religion. :wink: In every religion we must look to the source, which is the texts of that religion. What are they really teaching?

3) What kinds of "checks-and-balances" are there in that corporate body of believers? Who does the leadership answer to, outside of the Supreem Being? :idea:
Sometimes peoples egos are bigger than their minds and hearts. :( In all the religions I studied, all the members are equal to participate in the cerimonies. As long as they know about their beliefs. If you have some one say to you "This is how we do things around hear! :evil: " or "You all should do this, period! :twisted: ", get out!

I hope everyone hear can find a place where they can be blessed and also be a blessing! :D

Okay. Before I left a particular church organization, I began to see it as a cult. Now, I call it a cult. I am curious if it is thought here that it truly was a cult.

1. The organization's original two leaders were charismatic and were basically idolized, although the later three organization leaders seem to command less such esteem.
2. The pastors in its individual churches demand complete control of those who are members within those churches, but they follow what the organization's leaders say they must do/teach. If they do not, they know their jobs are absolutely on the line. I personally know some who have lost their jobs because they followed their consciences rather than the main leaderwhip's dicatates, even in matters of music style.
3. If any member questioned their rules of membership, that member was said to be a trouble-maker and was treated as such. If they continued to question, or if they acted upon their questions, they were made to feel very uncomfortable until they left the organization.
4. In fact, if any of those who preached in that organization were questioned, the questioner was marked as a trouble-maker and was treated as such. The preachers were not to be questioned or called to account for their actions by members, no matter what.
5. The members were told that they could not hold Bible studies in their own homes. If secret Bible studies were discovered, they were disbanded. If the leader refused, those who attended were told not to continue attending. If they continued, they were made to feel very uncomfortable until they left the organization.
6. Occasional sexual abuse occurred, but when the victims told, the leadership was always completely supported, and the victim was made to feel very uncomfortable until they left the organization.
7. The members were discouraged from going to other churches and were told not to use other churches' materials. The organization supplied such needs, to the best of their abilities, so that the people would not find other materials necessary.
8. Tithing and gifts were taught as part of being a member. We were told not to designate our giving, because they knew best. We were even told to do all our giving to the church and not to other entities.
9. We were specifically told that the church was our family and members were kept busy there, as they called it "G-d's work." In teachings that were supposed to help us prioritize our lives, line one, #1, was always "God -- Church"; line two, #2, was "Family"; line three, #3, was "Others"; line four, #4 was "Myself." In a teaching, I told one such teacher that I thought it should be "1. G-d; 2. Family; 3. Church," and was severely reprimanded, because all church matters were equal to His matters.
10. And most disturbing to me was that they were, in my opinion, so skilled in manipulating the truth, in saying just so much in such a particular way that it actually covered up the truth -- saying the truth in such a way that it conveyed a different idea, so that they could then say "We never said that! That was what you thought we said."

Now, is that a cult, or have I been too hard on them?