I have done a lot of research on this site, but very little on the message board. I had a few questions...
1. What is the difference between New Age and New Thought?
New agers say their no difference, but the NT people I spoke to strongly stated that they were "in no way connected to any new age wacko stuff!"

2. Are all the various New Thought religions destructive?
I belong to a NT church and have recently been questioning the whole belief system and am looking for support on the road to critical thinking.

Any help would be appreciated, :(

I just finished reading the 4 page post on Unity
@ [board.culteducation.com]
I felt defensive about some of the critisism and yet I felt an eerie connection to some issues also. I feel more conflicted now than before.
How silly is that? I guess maybe I should do some more digging around the web to find more. There just does'nt seem to be much of a critical view out their.
peace,

Ok, I am posting again. After much reading I feel like I'm finding some answers. It is very unsettling to begin seeing the negative aspects to a belief system I have clung to for some time now. I am wondering how other people have coped with these feelings when they first began to earnestly question their own church and beliefs? I feel confused and depressed. I am also glad to have found this place, it has offered me a chance to confirm some of my own negative experiences with new thought. However it can be difficult to feel like there is no one to talk with. I could never share my concerns with my NT friends. This Sunday will be the 3rd one in a row that I am choosing to skip church. I know this sounds strange, but I feel a mixture of relief at not needing to be there and guilt for not going. Is that crazymaking or what? anyhooo I'm new to message boards so I hope I am not posting too much on this topic, I just needed to reach out to people not currently at my church.
Thanks for listening,

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mindful
Ok, I am posting again. After much reading I feel like I'm finding some answers. It is very unsettling to begin seeing the negative aspects to a belief system I have clung to for some time now. I am wondering how other people have coped with these feelings when they first began to earnestly question their own church and beliefs? I feel confused and depressed. I am also glad to have found this place, it has offered me a chance to confirm some of my own negative experiences with new thought. However it can be difficult to feel like there is no one to talk with. I could never share my concerns with my NT friends. This Sunday will be the 3rd one in a row that I am choosing to skip church. I know this sounds strange, but I feel a mixture of relief at not needing to be there and guilt for not going. Is that crazymaking or what? anyhooo I'm new to message boards so I hope I am not posting too much on this topic, I just needed to reach out to people not currently at my church.
Thanks for listening,

Hey! Welcome to the boards. I don't think you are posting too much on this topic. IMHO...that's what boards are for.

Honestly, I only skimmed over your posts since I have no concept of which you speak. I've never heard of NT or went out of my way to read anything about NA. It's all crap to me. But that's just me.

But I will say this, for you. If you feel guilt over something....you may want to look into why you are feeling that. There may be something there. I don't think you have to feel bad about anything you are a part of.

Those negative feelings that we get...they are like red flags. They are like speed bumps. They are like....pause for you to check out the cause. It may be, once you take a deeper look, that it is something that really "agrees" with you - you just had to get to a place where you could see it better. Kinda like a consciousness raising.

And others...it's because it's crap.

It's like a computer. A brand new out of the box just configured computer is suppose to work the way you think it is suppose to work. Even if you have never worked with a computer before. It's suppose to work.

It starts well, it runs smooth, it runs fast...you play games, surf the net, etc. But if you start getting pop ups or the system starts loading slower and slower or you can't open certain applications...yup, you guessed it - there may be something wrong.

Crude analogy - but it works for me!

Thanks for the advice. I go to a Unity church, and I know that it is not a cult. However, after being there for a few years I have seen that the open minded atmosphere can lead to cult type workshops and activities. I also feel like I have slowly been loosing my criticle thinking skills.
Thanks again for the welcome and advice. I just needed a safe place to clear my head.
Carol

Hi Mindful,

I think it's pretty normal to feel confused and even depressed when you begin questioning something that has been a part of your life for a while. After I left Unity, I still felt for a while that I needed to be part of a "spiritual organization" and did briefly try a couple of other things but quickly decided they were not for me. I no longer feel the need to be involved with a religious organization. I love the feeling of freedom to make my own choices. My life is not perfect - I still have issues and I still get depressed at times - but I would not trade my freedom for the prison of new thought/new age delusions.

I think the fact that you are feeling guilt is telling about your involvement with Unity. To me it says that you are not there 100% freely, of your own choice. That by not going to church at Unity you see yourself as a "bad" person. Are there any positive reasons that you would want to continue going to Unity? Do you believe the new thought teachings? If not, and you continue to go to Unity, does trying to live something you don't believe in bother you?

Churches would not exist without attendees and therefore they have a stake in getting people to attend. One of the ways of getting people to attend church is by manipulating with guilt - sometimes subtly and sometimes not so subtly.

Take care,
Patricia

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think the fact that you are feeling guilt is telling about your involvement with Unity. To me it says that you are not there 100% freely, of your own choice. That by not going to church at Unity you see yourself as a "bad" person. Are there any positive reasons that you would want to continue going to Unity? Do you believe the new thought teachings? If not, and you continue to go to Unity, does trying to live something you don't believe in bother you?

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think the fact that you are feeling guilt is telling about your involvement with Unity. To me it says that you are not there 100% freely, of your own choice. That by not going to church at Unity you see yourself as a "bad" person. Are there any positive reasons that you would want to continue going to Unity? Do you believe the new thought teachings? If not, and you continue to go to Unity, does trying to live something you don't believe in bother you?

Thanks for the reply. I don't see myself as a bad person for not going. I am however involved in a lot of projects there, and that makes me feel obligated to be there. It's nice to talk to a former unity person. I am sure you understand the unspoken pressure to sign up for stuff to fit in. Then once your obligated to different jobs, there is unspoken pressure to be there even when you don't have a specific activity to do. It is so difficult to explain the pressure to do more and fit in because it is not as covert as it is in out right cults. If you try to talk to anyone at church about it, you are reassured in a condescending way that their is no pressure, but it is all new age double speak. Very crazy making.

To answer your question, I do believe some of the teachings. However I have discovered some real contradictions in the dogma. One example is how you are considered "Perfect as you are" While at the same time there is an underlying message that you need to go to all these classes an workshops to fix you. How can you be perfect and fundamentally flawed at the same time?

It can be difficult to walk away from a church were you have so many friends and have invested so much time and energy. I feel like there is something wrong with me for staying and at the same time I keep going. Now if that is'nt cazy I don't know what is.
What helped you decide to leave? Was it easy or difficult?
Thanks Patricia,
Carol

Carol,

I think what helped me decide to leave Unity was the realization that there was no genuine intimacy with the members of the group. Even after going regularly for over a year, I had not established even one close relationship. The Unity Church I was going to was all about volunteering and chasing after any new age gurus that happened to be in vogue. Yet none of the teachings helped to bring people closer together.

After I left Unity I eventually decided to try a different type of volunteer work. I now volunteer at a shelter for orphaned cats. I am not only doing something very practical to be of help, but I am also meeting my needs. It feels a lot more meaningful to me than volunteering in Unity. There were many services where members were exhorted to volunteer, sometimes with subtle guilt manipulating tactics thrown in.

Then of course there were the Abundance classes where you are told that in order to be abundant you need to tithe your income (even if you don't have it or can't afford it). I suspect the people who become the most abundant using this method are those who are receiving the tithe. Seems pretty self-serving to me. Don't get me wrong - there is nothing wrong to donating money to what you believe is a worthy cause. I just think no one has the right to tell you how much to give.

Anyway, I did not find it too difficult to leave. It did leave sort of a hole in my life for a while and, as I said previously, I did check out some other spiritual groups before deciding to chuck the whole thing all together.

If the friendships you formed in Unity are genuine, then if you leave Unity those people should still be there for you. Maybe you could just take a leave of absence from Unity and see what you learn. You don't have to make a final break unless and until you decide to. I think I may have initially done just that.

Also, there is nothing wrong with you for staying in Unity or even if you continue to stay in it. I believe people have a need to feel connected with others and perhaps to share a common sense of spirituality. And in our fragmented society it is often difficult to find people to connect with. However, this need can often make us vulnerable to group think and losing our critical thinking ability in order to belong to the group.

Bye for now,
Patricia

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I think what helped me decide to leave Unity was the realization that there was no genuine intimacy with the members of the group. Even after going regularly for over a year, I had not established even one close relationship.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me. I am going to take a break from church and see how a feel after awhile.

carol

New Thought, heh funny that sounds so familiar to me. I don't know much about the Unity church folks keep bringing up. My exposure to new thought is through this Church of Religious Science my folks go to. Ernest Holmes being the founder I'm told.

Anyhow much to my annoyance I constantly hear my mother talking about 'new thought' as some sort of huge boon to everyone. I don't think i'll ever understand it myself. I'd have to study there books and dogma for some time to understand it and that's not likely to happen.

Anyhow exposure to her church on occasion introduced me to Lekkies galore, a bunch of Deepak Chopra shit, pyramid schemes, and totally superficial ceremonies that mimick a kind of mass of sorts. The whole linear progression was worse than pointless short of improving my awareness of how fucked up a good portion of man kind is simply for not thinking for onesself.

I just want to scream from the rooftops, welcome to the new dark age, as this bullshit scam goes on unchecked like it did for many milleniea before us.

Anyhow I'm greatful for this site, and I must continually say this as the tone of my posts grows more bitter and irrational heh, I truly am greatful for at least one bastion of sanity in the world.

I'm a newly minted athiest if anyone cares, I feel pretty marginalized as every attempt I make to interest the media in the danger that lurks seemingly everywhere these days, hell most media is busy espousing the benefits of a lot of wacky 'spiritual' shit.

Canada's national media outlet had a splash on Falun Dafa the other day, CBC yes. It was pretty pro Falun Dafa, softballed the whole way, basically CHINA=EVIL Canada = GOOD cause we give safe harbor to the Falun Dafa practitioners and in the article they mentioned there were critics of Falun Gong but they never bothered to mention who they were besides big bad evil china. I'm not sure I would have bothered to find the real criticisms of such a group if it weren't for the suprise of having my mother go banana's @ the forum, when I came and read RR site it was bang on like every other account and when I went to the information session it was bang on like every account posted here.

My upstairs roommate is an introduction leader to the Forum, as is his girlfriend. Their lives are a mess to such an extent, I am still in disbelief to some extent but it's hard to fathom how screwed up they are for their beliefs. They go to the same church my folks go so there's this cumalative effect on them.

I see my mother's involvement to church of religious science as a real danger. It seems a gateway to many other cult-like and questionable groups.

Just writing this off the top of my head, it seems lately she's started taking a NLP course, and she has some brainwave meditation cd's that seem pretty fucking scary if you ask me. She knows nothing of how they work and yet she dutifully goes forward completely blind to any danger. When i criticised Deepak the other day I mentioned he was a student of the Maharishi, the same guru the beatles ditched, she said no way. See didn't respond when I showed her innumerable sources for the fact, she just seemed to get distracted and filter me out. I know better than to push too hard, she's a real believer despite my efforts. I'm just glad I was able to be supportive enough to keep her out landmark. But I think the real reasons are not my love and support but moreso the Lekkie neighbour being such an asshole and loser in life heh.

This whole speel is just from the gut, i'm not terribly adept at exposition, but bear with me. New Thought for me has been a nightmare. It effectivly destroys reality and replaces it with 'unlimited possibilities' and the 'power of positive thought'. Sounds so benign but it's such an evil trap.