mm:

You are not here to dialog or discuss anything.

You seem to be little more than an "Internet troll."

I contacted LDS HQ in SLC regarding one complaint and they did nothing.

The repeated nature of the problem and the rigid control the Mormon Church exercises over missionaries should preclude repeat problems.

It didn't.

Hey I am a Mormon and it is plain to me that it is a cult. I've been involved all of my life and finally abandoned it because it was so disgusting and full of double standards and lies. I will not be lied to.

Yes, the missionary thing is true. I've known many growing up that were manipulated in that way by missionaries. I was a missionary too, but I had morals and ethics. I didn't betray those to get numbers which was why I was not "leadership material". Fine with me. I couldn't stomach the racism from the missionaries from Utah and Idaho either, it almost came to a fight once with an Area Leader. Don't get me wrong, most mormons are decent enough, just brainwashed. But I really have a problem with leadership that knows better. They are evil. FARMS is a bunch of evil, manipulative liars, protectorate of the grand fraud. And the heads of the church are some of the most evil people in the world, using the church to control 100s of billions of dollars worth of worldwide resources among a few families. For sure they will not betray the truth. There is a reason Joseph Smith was killed - he was the head of one of America's first organized crime groups - murder, manipulation, blackmail, robbery, fraud, violence were the modus operandi. Joseph Smith was a conman who never wanted to work an honest day's work. Instead he dreamed up scheme after scheme until coming upon the grandest scheme of all - inventing a religion and become the all-powerful spokesman for God. What balls! And what rewards - money, power, sex, 14 year old girls, what more could he want.

Mormons were not "because of their beliefs (sob, sob)". They were Americans, they really didn't care what the Mormons believed. They did care about disgusting gang behavior. Porter Rockwell, my namesake was one of the henchman in the name of God and Joseph that was know for violence and murder. And if you thought Joseph Smith was bad, Brigham Young was another piece of work. So much for sanitized history.

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rrmoderator
mm:

You are not here to dialog or discuss anything.

You seem to be little more than an "Internet troll."

I contacted LDS HQ in SLC regarding one complaint and they did nothing.

The repeated nature of the problem and the rigid control the Mormon Church exercises over missionaries should preclude repeat problems.

It didn't.

Hey there. I was a Mormon missionary and it was never the practice. I've also been in leadership positions in the ward and stake and have never seen the practice. I have seen situations where one parent is happy for their child to be taught and the other isn't.

As for contacting LDS HQ, I don't know why you would have expected them to do something. Can't these families work out their own problems?

I'm always fascinated by the "cult" label. Why is it so important for people to label something unfavorably? Is that so it can be more easily dismissed? I shudder to think what your readers would have thought of the earliest Biblical prophets/apostles/christians if we had more background information than just the Bible. In fact, doesn't the Bible itself speak of opponents making all kinds of claims against the behavior of the apostles etc? Obviously our own judgments on the matter mean very little. The most important witness we can have on the matter is from God himself. Then at least we don't have to argue about it.

Thanks for your time.

This thread stroke a chord with me. I was LDS until I joined a cult that is organized by, and whose members are in the large majority, Mormon. Hans Berger of the Impact Trainings in Bluffdale gives mormons the charismatic, prophet-leader they hunger for, and it is my thought that the LDS pre-disposition and pre-conditioning for cultish behavior is what makes them such easy rubes for recruitment. God, could you imagine being in TWO cults at once? No wonder they are crazy. I've thought about this before, obviously, but I still try not to attack the mormons who are involved with Impact on the LGAT thread too much. I do have a certain empathy for their situation. I will say the LDS environment tends to breed independant thought out of its members. Even the non-Utah born and/or converted are not safe. I have an uncle-in-law who used to be cool and understanding until he married my aunt. Now he might as well be like the rest of my mother's family. Judgemental, gossip-mongering and intolerant.

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passerby
The most important witness we can have on the matter is from God himself. Then at least we don't have to argue about it.

Thanks for your time.

Moral Orel couldn’t have said it better.
Remember my observation about the "breeding out of independent thought"? Thank you for your validation. It’s this catechism that destroys lives. Your comment is on the same logical par with comments like “shoot ‘em all and let god sort ‘em out”. Ideas of blind obedience is eating the church alive from within, and there are droves of devout Mormon philosophers and dare I say it, THEOLOGIANS who are combating this injustice of instilled belief, despite continued resistance from the undereducated. The church will change or it will break.
The commonmost argument I hear from other church menbers about these problems is, "why are you just focusing on the bad when there is so much good in the church?" or something of the like. If a doctor ignored the lung tumor because the patients digestive system was working fine, he'd stop being a doctor pretty quick, and possibly the new meat in block D. Those who live by blind faith also tend to turn a blind-eye to what is going on. This free-agency argument is weak. Who trained these missionaries to use this acency? Who trained their parents? The church is responsible, either directly or indirectly. I'd have more respect for them if they would simply admit it. But, when something infavorable occurs within a powerful organization, they blame the agents. Why? Because they can. It's the easiest way to recover, keep power, and keep losses at a minimum. And for an organization who claims to be led by an infallible God, the loss of face is a deadly threat.

Dear Demon,

I am sorry to hear you have been ostracized by family and friends. Leaving "The Church" in Utah can be pretty rough.

I was raised mormon, in Utah, but got out at an early age. Fortunately, my immediate and extended, mostly mormon, family has continued to love me and include me consistent with the mormon emphasis on the importance of family. I realize this is not everyone's experience and I am sorry it has not been yours.

Whether the church is a cult or not - I don't know. I do think it is overall destructive to it's members. There isn't much room for individuality. Being a mormon woman is pretty much a Stepford Wives experience.

Regarding the selection of a new prophet, I have never understood it to be a democratic process. I was always told that the identity of the new prophet is "revealed" to the "quorom of tweleve". As a practical matter, it is always one of them.

I was surprised to hear of these restrictions:

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Demon of Kolob
Extreme Sexual rules even for Married. No oral ,rectal ,birth control, toys,dirty talk etc.

Certainly my devout mormon parents and siblings use birth control (and do some of the other stuff too). My understanding is that LDS encourages people to have as many children as possible because there are spirits who are waiting for bodies, but there is no prohibition on using birth control.

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rrmoderator
In court the right to proselytize does not include minor children. Parental rights over the minor would trump relgious rights in such a situation.

This is the way our laws and judicial system works.

First, I agree with this statement in this particular debate. The logic of it, however, raises an interesting question: Do you use American law exclusively to determine whether a group is a cult? What is illegal in this country might not be in another or vice versa. Say, for example, filing of annual financial reports. That seems to be one of your criteria, if I'm not mistaken, for determining if an organization or church is a cult. Can you say with all certainty that all nations require that for religious organizations, and if not, why does American law have precedence in that regard?

Just curious.

Financial transparency is not a determining factor regarding the definition of a "cult."

See [www.culteducation.com]

The lack of financial transparency and meaningful accountability is a "warning sign" listed concerning potentially unsafe groups and leaders.

See [www.culteducation.com]

This thread is specifically focused on Mormons.

Parents do have the legal right to determine the religious training of their minor children. Outside groups do not have that right.