"Jane Doe" called me a few minutes ago. She said that Scribner recently preached a men's meeting at the church and told the men that they should not seek out any advice from women becuase they are stupid.

Unbelievable.

Keep writing Foursquare.

Sorry, I don't know Jack Hayford's email address. I can give you his home address (not here) but I don't have a home ph #.

I hate to say this, but Foursquare has become the Good Ol' Boys Club in the last few decades and respect for women in general has reverted into complete disregard in many way. Ever since Aimee died and her son Rolf took over as President this has systematically evolved into them making it extremely difficult for a woman to become a pastor, and for those that are there seems to be some un-written bylaws that are for the women in ministry because the usual by-laws seem to go by the board in matters of investigating complaints against them, the processes by which the matter(s) are handled and any restoration into any ministry. I know this for a FACT. I have a dear sister who has been dealt with unfairly from her Dist Sup. and any and all complaints into the matter to Regional Sup is disregarded. She could go directly to Pres. Jack Hayford but refuses to because it is improper protocol, even though she and her family are very close friends with Mr. & Mrs. Hayford. I don't believe Hayford espouses the Good Ol' Boy routine but he must turn his head the other way not to at least be aware of it.

As it was stated at slamthedooronthepottershouse, perhaps Hayford is successful in his agenda for a new era of reconciliation to those etstranged from Foursquare for whatever reason, and his efforts can be seen in the duallity of denominational alliance by Rob Scribner and his Lighthouse Church which appears to not only be a Foursquare Church which is a part of Wayman Mitchell's CFM, but the pastor seems to have dual affiliation as well! This is remarkable and should at least be noted by Charisma, Christianity Today and the rest of the mags and newsletters that carry news of this sort ot the Body of Christ. One wonders does Scribner receive a paycheck from both Foursquare AND CFM and does he tithe to BOTH??

Inquiring minds want to know!!

Quote
d0ub7ful0n3
The reason the Foursquare denomination has not pulled Rob from his throne is that he is a master manipulator - He tells people exactly what they need to hear to be alright with a given circumstance. Not only does he have the foursquare overseers so duped that they can dismiss any grievance brought to them against him, the denomination picked up the multi-million dollar tab of the Yale Street church.

you're getting warmer. let me help you out. the associate pastor is harrison sommer, as in berglund, johnson and sommer law firm in the san fernando valley.

either berglund or johnson is a major contributor to the church on the way. putting up with rob scribner is a small price to pay for sleeping with a very powerful, very wealthy law firm.

as for rob, you're giving him far too much credit. he continues to survive in spite of himself.

The other day I was talking to Jane Doe, and we came to the conculsion that Scribner strategically uses shame and guilt to keep them chained to the church. Jane says he learned this from Wayman Mitchell and Harold Warner. She said whenever they came to the church, they would preach that you had to be at all the church services, all the revivals, all the prayer meetings to prove that you are a real, committed Christian. They would use mockery and poke fun at any excuse that came to their mind. It was a way to verbally and mentally trap people into thinking there is no other way to be a "real Christian". You had to follow their way of thinking, or else, you weren't really "saved." Scribner has adopted their way of controlling people totally.

Then Jane said something to me that blew my mind. She said that Scribner will never back down from supporting Mitchell and that he thinks that Mitchell is like Jesus Christ! Mitchell can never do anything wrong in his mind, even if a any person brings up proof that Mitchell has done things wrong or hurts people, preaches shepherding doctrines or other false teachings, Scribner will always look past it. She said that Scribner has been completely brainwashed by Mitchell.

I asked Jane what she think of Scribner's recent comments about women being stupid. She said that is exactly the same mindset that Mitchell has about women. She said that when Mitchell preaches about women, he labels them bitches, whores, and Jezebels. One get's the feeling he really hates women deep inside, maybe even hated his own mother. Scribner is just parroting Mitchell's beliefs about women.

Jane told me that the women in the church really don't like Mitchell. They say he is creepy. I wonder what Scribner's wife Jennifer thinks of all this? Does she think when Mitchell talks about women in a demeaning and profane way does it bother her? What would happen if she called Foursquare and told them about Mitchell and all of her experiences. Bet she could tell a story or two. Would Foursquare then step in and stop the nonsense?

Just a thought I had tonight.

I just found out that Lighthouse is having Ernie Toppin for a revival this week. He is a another Wayman Mitchellite evangelist. Here is a interesting post I found about Toppin on the Yahoo Groups message boards.

This post is by a former member and he writes about Toppin's vision he had from God about being in hell and seing a man shot by a demon with "poo" coming out of the bullet holes.


Hi Nancy...and anyone else reading this. I couldn't help myself when
I read of your request to Ken so here is my offering to you and all
who post here. The Potters House Guide to hell. Sit back and enjoy.

Some of you may remember a well balanced and moderate minister by
the name of Ernie Toppin that I posted about several times on the
slam site a couple of months back. Well during a conference he had
this amazing vision. He seemed very concerned that we would not
believe him so he angrily reminded us that the visions he had were
not result of eating too much pizza before bedtime. Anyway, here it
is.
[i:974c560da8]
I suddenly found myself in hell and in front of me was this guy and
he was screaming no! no! Then I heard this really evil laugh woah,
hahaha, woah, hahaha. Then a demon appeared and pulled out a gun and
shot him, the demon shot him several times and the blood splattered
all over me only when I looked again it wasn't just blood. I was
covered in poo. Then I looked at the man. He was shouting argh!
argh! but he couldn't die and when I looked there was poo coming out
of his bullet holes. There was lots of poo coming out of him and the
demon said ahahaha! Then he shot him some more times cause he
couldn't die and more poo came out of him. There was lots of poo.
Yeah. Hell is real man. You'd better get right with God.[/i:974c560da8]

Toppin recounted this vision several times and each time seemed more
paranoid that people didn't believe him than the last. This was
despite the fact that nobody even dared suggest he could ever be
mistaken. The last straw for me was when I went with a zealous new
convert to the house of a muslim friend of his and he exitedly
recounted in graphic detail what a powerful man of God the pastor
was and how God shows this man visions of hell. I stood there while
he described this all in detail to the muslim guy and I stood there
not saying a word. {I was speechless. All I could think was why is
this new convert doing this to me. Please shut up}

To top it all off, our preacher friend in a sermon some weeks later
suddenly went bazerk. For no apparent reason he went completely 'off
topic' and started laying into a preacher that he had heard of. He
really tore into him like he was a false prophet or something. The
thing that hacked him off about this man was that he had a vision of
heaven and pastor Toppin raged 'that's not God man! That's not the
bible!'

I assure you that the last time I saw pastor Toppin, he was fully
clothed and in his right mi....well, fully clothed anyway.

regards...naboth675
[/color:974c560da8]

Hey, I wonder if Toppin is going to tell his "poo" vision to the Lighthouse people? Scribner is polluting this Foursquare church with Mitchell's toxic imbeciles. Barf!

Naboth was a former member of Toppin's cult church, The Potter's House.
Here is another post about the insane pressure he puts on to his church members:

Over the years I've heard some perversities of legalists who twist
what a relationship with Jesus is all about but this one I am going to
share with you comes close to Toppin' it {excuse the pun}

My old pastor Ernie Toppin started to make a big issue every sermon
about prayer. It was his latest in a long line of dubious revelations.
His preoccupation with prayer at that time was based on a philosophy
of fear {now why shouldn't that surprise me} He started to get more
and more extreme with this warning us that if we did not pray in the
mornings then Satan would wait for us round the corner with a big
stick to 'beat the bejesus out of us'. According to the prophet Toppin
we needed to pray for at least five minutes every day to 'power
ourselves up'. If we didn't do this then we would be leaving our homes
naked for the devil to molest us. He would mock us and run rings
around us.

What got me about this was that I thought prayer was primarily about a
relationship with Jesus. Wasn't that what I had told new converts and
people I had been witnessing to for the last several years? Now it's
about getting the power and spiritual warfare. Now there is a power
element to it all and a warfare element. I'm not saying that there is
no truth to all that but think about it. What is the primary
motivation for prayer? How often did I actualy hear about relationship
or praying because you love him? How about some sermons which inspire
us to love Jesus and WANT to pray to him. What we got was mainly duty,
fear, obligation, qualification for destiny and warfare.

Another problem with this ridiculous exageration is that when converts
don't pray and the devil does not smash the living liver out of them
then they figure that they can get away with not praying at all. Fear
no longer works with them. Fear is always the tool of the little man
who wants to have the control and authority of a big man. I have heard
the 'power praying' of Toppin in morning prayer. He sounds impressive
but that depends on if you are impressed with a big booming voice and
king James oratory {I'm sure God is impressed anyway. lol}

Soon after all this he started making noise about morning prayer and
so we dragged ourselves out to pray on our own but under the same
roof. Please tell me what sense this makes. We all pray seperately but
under the same roof. Why not pray at home. You save journey time and
you can pray longer or get a bit of extra sleep. I don't suppose it
occured to this man of prayer that God is everywhere and so we don't
have to be in the same place at the same time to pray. Anyway, he
seemed pleased to see me there.

Imagine basing your relationship with Jesus on fear. What kind of
relationship is that? Does this man have any idea what kind of
religion he is developing in his congregation?

regards...naboth675[/color:43a53b8520]

Another Naboth story about Toppin:

I've just read an old post from a U.K Potters House member who
contacted The Cracked Pots site. Right up until the end I thought I
knew who it was but it turned out not to be that person. However the
post did remind me of one of my more unusual moments in the Potters
House.

Several years ago I went with a friend to a bowling alley. The
alleys were fully booked up and we would have had to wait for some
time so we decided to go to the nearby cinema instead. {I was not in
ministry at the time} Anyway, we chose to watch a film
entitled 'Chicken Run' which was a cartoon film and had a universal
rating which means that there is no age restriction on who can watch
it. Being a Potters House disciple I was zealous about not being
exposed to anything that could be viewed as corrupting.

Some days later however, ny pastor at the time {Ernie Toppin} took
me aside to talk to me. He informed me that it had come to his
attention that I had been to the cinema. I began to explain what we
watched yet he said that I shouldn't watch things like that because
even kids films have 'subliminal messages' that can stay in your
brain and cause you to depart from God at a later date.

I found this a bit bizarre and frankly totaly over the top. There
was nothing untoward about the film at all and I thought he was way
over the top. Anyway I decided that his advice was unbalanced and
decided it didn't matter anyway as I rarely went to the cimema. That
was my first time in about 4 years.

Then something really strange happened. Ernie Toppin was preaching a
sermon and he started raving about this film he watched called the
Matrix. He said it was a fantastic film and used the lead
character 'Neo' as an illustration of Jesus. He was so impressed
bythis that he used him as an illustration in another sermon as
well. Anyway, a few months later I was visiting my sister who had
bought the matrix on D.V.D. as the pastor thought it was o.k to
watch this I said I would watch it. It turned out to be a fantastic
film. But I couldn't quite understand why Toppin used Neo as an
illustration of Jesus when the character Neo was based on a cultic
view of Jesus that came from Gnosticism. It was a Jesus of slow self
realisation and not the JESUS OF THE BIBLE.

So here I am trying to figure out why a pastor can watch a film only
available to those over 15 years old that is based on a Gnostic
heresy and use it as a sermon illustration but I can't go to the
cinema to watch a childrens cartoon despite the fact that the media
rule didn't apply to me at the time.

It's a silly little thing really but I began to notice lots of silly
little ways in which the pastor would interfere in peoples lifes.


regards...naboth675[/color:2c818dfb5b]

Quote
nitedork
rob is suffering a slow demise. here is a man who took hard-fought ministries away from people who labored from scratch and handed them over to his closest family members.

consequently, "God" (lets give honor where honor is due!) <i>god</i> has been taking things from rob.

he has lost 200 to 300 members since 2002.

the school has dropped in enrollment from 220 to maybe 110

the high-school is rampant with alchohol (Oh really? )

his number 1 disciple (john s) left this year

his number 2 right hand guy is suffering from mental insanity and has abandoned his wife and 4 kids this year (#2 right hand guy? He was just a church member...where do you guys get this gossip? LOL...Funny stuff)

he just lost his top family to texas (this week) (This is true...but they left for other reasons...)

and as a humorous daily reminder, the city of santa monica just demolished an illegal structure on the church property (this week)

(Ah...hello, the city did not do the demolishing...You need to get your facts straight 'truth' seeker...)

So, why don't you enlighten us with your inside knowledge?

Quote
Warrior4Christ

Quote
nitedork
rob is suffering a slow demise. here is a man who took hard-fought ministries away from people who labored from scratch and handed them over to his closest family members.

consequently, "God" (lets give honor where honor is due!) <i>god</i> has been taking things from rob.

he has lost 200 to 300 members since 2002.

the school has dropped in enrollment from 220 to maybe 110

the high-school is rampant with alchohol (Oh really? )

his number 1 disciple (john s) left this year

his number 2 right hand guy is suffering from mental insanity and has abandoned his wife and 4 kids this year (#2 right hand guy? He was just a church member...where do you guys get this gossip? LOL...Funny stuff)

he just lost his top family to texas (this week) (This is true...but they left for other reasons...)

and as a humorous daily reminder, the city of santa monica just demolished an illegal structure on the church property (this week)

(Ah...hello, the city did not do the demolishing...You need to get your facts straight 'truth' seeker...)

hey warrior, it's obvious you're new to the lighthouse so i'll cut you some slack.

the city ordered the garage demolished. it's in the public records. rob installed counterfeit electrical panels and got caught. "doh"!!

and since you're new to the lighthouse then of course you're not aware that jf was the associate pastor for over 10 years and his wife was in charge of women's ministries.

go back and check these 2 tidbits out and then i'll update you on other stuff.