Not at all Truth Seeker...If they committed sexual immorality, then they should have been removed.
But are you implying that the pastor there has done something of this nature?
It seems that all of your 'truth' is hearsay evidence. "Jane Doe" said this or that...or a third party said this or that...
Doesn't sound like 'truth' to me Truth Seeker...
How about you come to the church and speak to the man yourself and get to the 'truth' of the matter?

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A Truth Seeker
If you take the idea of the pastor being like King Saul or King David, and that their authority or actions cannot be question, then one condones attempted murder, murder and adultery with any consequence or removal from their position. Does that now mean that Ted Haggard, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart and all the other immoral pastors should have never been removed from their position of ministry, because they were anointed by God for that position? I think that is totatlly absurd!

I agree with you about going to the hospitals and healing them...but truth be told, in the new testament (and old for that matter) when people sought a miracle they usually came to the Man of God to seek it out.
Many came to Jesus and asked Him to heal them...Crippled man, Blind man, others...
I met the woman who was at the healing crusade and she testified about her healing at church one Sunday...she even stated that her doctor was shocked to see her xrays because she was completely healed.
Also, prior to visiting the lighthouse, I attended many other churches of different denominations...I've seen other miracles too.
My dad was healed of cancer just by a prayer and faith. The doctors couldn't explain it. Two xrays, one with disease a month prior and another after prayer a month later clear as a summer day.
How can you explain that?
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument" -
You can argue all you want, but I've seen God heal people not just at the hands of Pastor Mitchell but at the hands of many other Pastors, laypeople and ordinary Christians like me...

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A Truth Seeker

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confuzed1

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A Truth Seeker
I ran into very nice Lighthouse person the other day, she doesn't believe in the shunning doctrine that they preach there - ha ha ha ha! Anyways she said that the Wayman Mitchell video they put on the web site recently has made a few people in the church upset. Quite a few people there don't like the guy. Mitchell really sets off the women, he is chauvenistic and very derrogatory when he speaks about them in general. I have been reading the other web sites about Mitchell and have learn he can very nasty from the pulpit. He believes there is some sort of spiritual conspiracy by the female race that intends to bring down pastors through adulterous liasons intentionally setup by these women. This conspiracy is worldwide and threatens his global church empire, so he is constantly pining about these so-called pastor killers. Obviously this lunatic dogma is consumed by the faithful as gospel truth and then revomitted on innocent victims.

So if you want to see the boring video of Mitchell here you go:
[www.lighthousechurch.com]

Hey Truth Seeker,
I saw that 'boring' video and it was actually quite interesting...
It looks like this guy Mitchell REALLY heals people! Amazing...
But its all done in the name of Jesus Christ...
Do you know of any other religions or religious leaders who are healing people like that in the name of their god(s) or leaders? Imams healing in the name of allah? Buddists healing in the name of buddha? Help me out here because I see bonafide miracles happening here and I'm getting a bit confused about all that is being written...

There were no doctors there to verify before or after these claimed healings. Sorry to be so pessimistic, there is no accountability here to these claims.

Have you ever thought of this: If Mitchell is such a great healer, why isn't he visiting every hospital in America healing these people from their afflicitions? Why isn't he using this supposed healing gift to it's fullest extent? Why does he need to have healing crusades? Does he healing gift only work in tents or church buildings?

If Mitchell has a real healing gift, then he should welcome to have a group of doctors with him to verify the affliction and verify the healing. This would lend credibility to the claims and prove that he has a healing gift. All this is suspect.

"Mitchell's fellowship is no different than Hamas or Hezbollah. You are supporting spiritual terrorists"
Now Truth Seeker...you know that Hamas and Hezbollah are killing innocent people by strapping bombs on their bodies and blowing themselves up. To compare Christians who sincerely believe that people are going to go to hell without being born again is not the same as blowing people up and killing them. Come on 'Truth Seeker'...
Lets call a spade a spade and call terrorists what they are cold-hearted, cowardly killers. Bible believing Christians may not be perfect and they may even be hypocritical (I know I have been) but they aren't killing people in the name of God. They may offend some people, they may hurt some people, and they may even cause people to stumble but at least they aren't plastering bits and pieces of their bodies over cities because of a suicide bomber...Please dont' compare Christians to Terrorists Truth Seeker...OK? Thanks...

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A Truth Seeker
WOW! Over 6000 page views!

Who is reading this board?

Rob Scribner?
Harrison Sommer?

You think nobody reads this do you "Pastor Rob"? People are reading this - people in your church! They know that Mitchell's fellowship is no different than Hamas or Hezbollah. You are supporting spiritual terrorists who misuse the Bible for their own personal gain and who uses fear and manipulation to make people submit to their demands.

You are just like Mitchell.

You will reap what you have sown.

Truth Seeker, I read on this website Rickross.com
about the Ten signs of a safe group/leader.
A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive. (Yes to that one...The Pastors have ALWAYS been willing to answer our questions)

A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know. (Another YES on this one...)

A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight. (YES on this one too)

A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them. (This one too...I've never heard they vilify or forbid us from associating with others who left the church. But we have been told to pray for them)

A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them. (Well, except for this forum, I haven't heard anything else negative about our Pastors...I guess you are one of a few who are a little bitter about your experiences at the LH...I'll pray for you)

A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened. (we are always told to pray for our family members and invite them to church, church events, etc...)

A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others. (yes)

A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem. (yes)

A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice. (yes)

A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas. (yes)

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A Truth Seeker
I appreciate your response. It lets me know that I am not alone in my thoughts about this destructive church and pastor.

I hope that my story here helps others who want to leave churches like the one I was a part of.

A Truth Seeker

Why the paranoia? "[i:c641ee3d4c]First off I'll be Honest with you..I think you're up to something."
[/i:c641ee3d4c] Man, I'm just trying to get information about this church thats all. Relax man.
i've been to a variety of churches in my life (I'm 52 years old) and I've seen lots of error and hypocrisy. I know that churches are not perfect and I've learned to never look at man but at God.
So, yes, I am sincere...[i:c641ee3d4c]" If you are sincere, I will tell you more"[/i:c641ee3d4c]
Will you email me directly? PM?

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Free Agent
"Wow...I didn't know all this happened before.
I've just started visiting the lighthouse after i got a flyer at the 3rd st promenade.
I've actually enjoyed the sermons they preach. But I would like to know more about the division that happened in the church before i place membership there. "-Confuzed1

First off I'll be Honest with you..I think you're up to something. Sorry But What I have just been through at the lightHouse in Hesperia..I TRUST NO ONE That is attending ANY LIGHTHOUSE.

All I can say is Run while you still have a fresh mind. Rob and friends will bully you beyond belief. They Will LIE to cover thier butts, which I have witnessed first hand, The will manipulate God's word to keep you in check, I seen What they did to my Pastor, and just because He followed what God Wanted for his life and Not CFM...They took 18 years of his labor away and turned about 75% of his congregation against him. Rob will tell you different..to cover himself...But I seen This all go down first hand. The Hesperia LH Is moving not on a spirit of "Revival", But a Spirit of Gossip and Slander. And all of it is Rob's doing. What kind of "Man Of God" post's a letter in the church hallway for everyone to see slandering and LYING about "Thier version" of what happened to John schmidt. To this day That congregations message is not Christ love...Its "Let me tell you about the rebelion of John schmidt." If you are sincere, I will tell you more...If not God will expose your motive somhow...It always happens!

One more thing...Let NO MAN tell you God only moves on those that attend a CFM church. Jesus loves you for who you are. AND YOU SHOULD NOT FEEL OBLIGATED to only feel right with God if you "serve and obey" Rob Scribner. You will soon know why this thread is up.

Run while you can.

"Lets call a spade a spade and call terrorists what they are cold-hearted, cowardly killers. Bible believing Christians may not be perfect and they may even be hypocritical (I know I have been) but they aren't killing people in the name of God. They may offend some people, they may hurt some people, and they may even cause people to stumble but at least they aren't plastering bits and pieces of their bodies over cities because of a suicide bomber...Please dont' compare Christians to Terrorists Truth Seeker...OK? Thanks..."-Confuzed1

Let me tell you something about Terrorist...terrorist are THE BIGGEST COWARDS in the world. They live secretly amongst you, They are friendly, They claim to be patriotic, And they kill Spiritually and physically with secret PREMEDITATED attacks that they have been planning for years.

The Lighthouse Church was Infitrated by Spiritual terrorist that literally high jacked a congregation and bullied them by saying they will be in rebellion if anyone leaves the LH and follows John out the door. Terrorist? 5 families That I thought, along with Pastor John, Were friends, Family, Having the vision of seeing souls saved, Stabbed Pastor John and many others in the back because He didnt believe in THIER plan for him. The man's wife died and God redeemed him and brought him to another woman a year later and John Confided in these 5 families about his decision to marry this woman...And in his face They gave thier blessing..And behind His back, They Grumbled amongst each other and PLANNED a way to stop this marrage from happenning. By SECRETLY meeting at "a brother's" house with rob, And voicing thier displeasures and spewing lies THAT ARE DOCUMENTED AS LIES (and rob and the LH knows it). And through all this John was not allowed to the meeting to defend himself. All this just to have 15+ years of laboring tooken away and handed to a bunch of terroist. TODAY as I type this to you, These same Spiritual terrorist Spread lies, and gossip, Having Bar-B-Q's in honer of Johns deceased wife as a slap in the face...What more do I need to tell you? And Rob will deny this all to your face. I confronted Rob himself about all this....And you know what he told me? "just come to church on sunday and youll be ok". What? Thats you explenation? And all he did was threaten people about "Following man". Practice what you preach rob!

So Confuzed, Please before you decide to defend this group, know the facts and QUESTION the Lighthouse and CFM. You will get nothing but lies. So please, dont tell me about how "Christians" cannot be identified as terroist... I have seen spiritual terrorism first hand. And I have had my faith shook because of this .

I disagree, your analogy is still faulty by using the supposed King Saul principle even when it comes to authority and submission. Too many pastors think they can control and manage people's lives because they have this supposed authority.

My question to you, what are submitting to? Why do you need to submit to a pastor? What do you need from him that you can't get from God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or the Bible on your own? Think about that.

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confuzed1
No. I am not implying that the Pastor is a "King". But he is the authority we are to submit to in the church.
I just wish I know more about this church and its leadership before I get caught up in the confusion...

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A Truth Seeker

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confuzed1

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A Truth Seeker

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Uywhan
We all make mistakes Truth Seeker, even in our personal lives. Unfortunately, all of us tend to forget Pastors and Leaders are only human too even if they do hold an upright position. I actually read in the bible before I entered this site that God told us to obey those he puts in leadership, even when we think they are wrong, because GOD will have his way with them. And, my Pastor always encourages me to read my bible for answers if I don’t understand things or question certain ideas he may have. When I look back at the whole situation now, I think about how great GOD is that he gave us his Word, the Spirit of Truth. It’s a hard walk the Christian walk and yes, sometimes we tend to forget about our salvation, our personal lives and concentrate too much on the Work of GOD, which all in all, requires balance. Because all of us have been affected (in my church), we are never turned away if we have something to question. Whether it’s something the Pastor has said or somebody else, we’ve been taught (and with GOD’s grace and meditating with him) that it’s not wrong to do this you know? We’re not turned away anymore like how we use to be. Maybe that's what everyone needs to remind themselves of including myself.
quote]

Hi U,

This paragraph popped out to me.

Are you trying to tell us that you must continue submit to your pastor even if he is wrong or in sin?

So, if your pastor decides to murder someone, he still should be regarded as a pastor and you should still submit to him? I know it sounds extreme, but your statement bears this out.

And to think that you are suppose to let "God will have his way them" is to me a cop out.

It is quite disturbing you think this way.

A Truth Seeker

I'm new to this site and have a few questions for Truth Seeker...
Truth Seeker, tell me why King David submitted to Saul even though Saul was trying to kill him? David had an opportunity to kill Saul but he refrained because he knew that that was God's anointed leader (even though he was doing wrong!) and that God would remove him eventually.
Its not a cop out...Its obedience to God first.
As a former soldier, we always listened to our superiours first and obeyed commands and took comfort in knowing that we did what we 'signed' up to do and did a good job in the process.
Its the same way in the church. We want to obey God so we do it in faith...
:idea:

You should re-read what you just wrote. You are implying the pastor is like a king. No where in the Bible does it say, the pastor is the king of the church and NT doesn't teach this idea. This is a false teaching that has come out of the shephereding cults from the 1970's and 1980's.

There have been other posters to this site such as Free Agent, Nightdork and others who have validated the same experiences at the Lighthouse.
It is not hearsay. As for speaking with Scribner, I was about to do that, but I got advice from other Foursquare pastors and they told me just forget it. He is stuck on Wayman Mitchell.

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confuzed1
Not at all Truth Seeker...If they committed sexual immorality, then they should have been removed.
But are you implying that the pastor there has done something of this nature?
It seems that all of your 'truth' is hearsay evidence. "Jane Doe" said this or that...or a third party said this or that...
Doesn't sound like 'truth' to me Truth Seeker...
How about you come to the church and speak to the man yourself and get to the 'truth' of the matter?

Quote
A Truth Seeker
If you take the idea of the pastor being like King Saul or King David, and that their authority or actions cannot be question, then one condones attempted murder, murder and adultery with any consequence or removal from their position. Does that now mean that Ted Haggard, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart and all the other immoral pastors should have never been removed from their position of ministry, because they were anointed by God for that position? I think that is totatlly absurd!

It is not that I don't believe in divine healing, it is that so much of what is done in these "crusades" is subjective and questionable. Why not have doctors there to verify the illnesses and the healings at these crusades. It would squelch the claims of emotionalism and manipulation, don't you think?

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confuzed1
I agree with you about going to the hospitals and healing them...but truth be told, in the new testament (and old for that matter) when people sought a miracle they usually came to the Man of God to seek it out.
Many came to Jesus and asked Him to heal them...Crippled man, Blind man, others...
I met the woman who was at the healing crusade and she testified about her healing at church one Sunday...she even stated that her doctor was shocked to see her xrays because she was completely healed.
Also, prior to visiting the lighthouse, I attended many other churches of different denominations...I've seen other miracles too.
My dad was healed of cancer just by a prayer and faith. The doctors couldn't explain it. Two xrays, one with disease a month prior and another after prayer a month later clear as a summer day.
How can you explain that?
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument" -
You can argue all you want, but I've seen God heal people not just at the hands of Pastor Mitchell but at the hands of many other Pastors, laypeople and ordinary Christians like me...

Quote
A Truth Seeker

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confuzed1

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A Truth Seeker
I ran into very nice Lighthouse person the other day, she doesn't believe in the shunning doctrine that they preach there - ha ha ha ha! Anyways she said that the Wayman Mitchell video they put on the web site recently has made a few people in the church upset. Quite a few people there don't like the guy. Mitchell really sets off the women, he is chauvenistic and very derrogatory when he speaks about them in general. I have been reading the other web sites about Mitchell and have learn he can very nasty from the pulpit. He believes there is some sort of spiritual conspiracy by the female race that intends to bring down pastors through adulterous liasons intentionally setup by these women. This conspiracy is worldwide and threatens his global church empire, so he is constantly pining about these so-called pastor killers. Obviously this lunatic dogma is consumed by the faithful as gospel truth and then revomitted on innocent victims.

So if you want to see the boring video of Mitchell here you go:
[www.lighthousechurch.com]

Hey Truth Seeker,
I saw that 'boring' video and it was actually quite interesting...
It looks like this guy Mitchell REALLY heals people! Amazing...
But its all done in the name of Jesus Christ...
Do you know of any other religions or religious leaders who are healing people like that in the name of their god(s) or leaders? Imams healing in the name of allah? Buddists healing in the name of buddha? Help me out here because I see bonafide miracles happening here and I'm getting a bit confused about all that is being written...

There were no doctors there to verify before or after these claimed healings. Sorry to be so pessimistic, there is no accountability here to these claims.

Have you ever thought of this: If Mitchell is such a great healer, why isn't he visiting every hospital in America healing these people from their afflicitions? Why isn't he using this supposed healing gift to it's fullest extent? Why does he need to have healing crusades? Does he healing gift only work in tents or church buildings?

If Mitchell has a real healing gift, then he should welcome to have a group of doctors with him to verify the affliction and verify the healing. This would lend credibility to the claims and prove that he has a healing gift. All this is suspect.

I'm sorry to hear about all that happened. First off, I'm not defending anybody...I'm just interested in what is or has transpired at this church, thats all. I still don't agree with calling Christians terrorists. Rosie O'Donnell compared us to terrorists on national T.V. once before.
How many times have you heard about a true, bible-believing, Holy Spirit filled Christian blowing themselves up in the name of God, or taking over a plane and crashing it into a crowded building so that they can get their 70 virgins, or shooting innocent people, cutting their heads off on video tape to make a statement about their 'holy war'? I haven't heard of one yet...
Listen, I like John Schmidt, actually I love John Schmidt because I could totally related to him and his testimony so please don't think I'm defending anyone over another...
I just would like to know more before I make a decision to stay in this church. Thats all.

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Free Agent
"Lets call a spade a spade and call terrorists what they are cold-hearted, cowardly killers. Bible believing Christians may not be perfect and they may even be hypocritical (I know I have been) but they aren't killing people in the name of God. They may offend some people, they may hurt some people, and they may even cause people to stumble but at least they aren't plastering bits and pieces of their bodies over cities because of a suicide bomber...Please dont' compare Christians to Terrorists Truth Seeker...OK? Thanks..."-Confuzed1

Let me tell you something about Terrorist...terrorist are THE BIGGEST COWARDS in the world. They live secretly amongst you, They are friendly, They claim to be patriotic, And they kill Spiritually and physically with secret PREMEDITATED attacks that they have been planning for years.

The Lighthouse Church was Infitrated by Spiritual terrorist that literally high jacked a congregation and bullied them by saying they will be in rebellion if anyone leaves the LH and follows John out the door. Terrorist? 5 families That I thought, along with Pastor John, Were friends, Family, Having the vision of seeing souls saved, Stabbed Pastor John and many others in the back because He didnt believe in THIER plan for him. The man's wife died and God redeemed him and brought him to another woman a year later and John Confided in these 5 families about his decision to marry this woman...And in his face They gave thier blessing..And behind His back, They Grumbled amongst each other and PLANNED a way to stop this marrage from happenning. By SECRETLY meeting at "a brother's" house with rob, And voicing thier displeasures and spewing lies THAT ARE DOCUMENTED AS LIES (and rob and the LH knows it). And through all this John was not allowed to the meeting to defend himself. All this just to have 15+ years of laboring tooken away and handed to a bunch of terroist. TODAY as I type this to you, These same Spiritual terrorist Spread lies, and gossip, Having Bar-B-Q's in honer of Johns deceased wife as a slap in the face...What more do I need to tell you? And Rob will deny this all to your face. I confronted Rob himself about all this....And you know what he told me? "just come to church on sunday and youll be ok". What? Thats you explenation? And all he did was threaten people about "Following man". Practice what you preach rob!

So Confuzed, Please before you decide to defend this group, know the facts and QUESTION the Lighthouse and CFM. You will get nothing but lies. So please, dont tell me about how "Christians" cannot be identified as terroist... I have seen spiritual terrorism first hand. And I have had my faith shook because of this .