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Hillsong Church (AOG) - Brian and Bobbie Houston
Posted by: Concerned Oz ()
Date: February 17, 2006 07:13AM

I have started this thread as a fact finding method to investigate any links to this Church in the North Western suburbs of Sydney, Australia with Landmark Education.

As background information, please refer to:
[www.culteducation.com]

And the Hillsong Church website:
[www2.hillsong.com]

This Assemblies of God, (AOG) Church preaches the Prosperity Gospel - basically, God wants you to be healthy and wealthy and if you are not, you need to turn to God and be healed.

My Girlfriend and I visited this church last May, 2005 on a Saturday Night to listen to the music, (ther music is actually very good). [b:1d918677c5]Both her and I recognised specific jargon/ terminology and philisophical thought from one of the preachers that was identical to Landmark Education.[/b:1d918677c5]
My concern is that this Church which preaches to near to 20,000 people each week has been infiltrated by Landmark Graduates from the top down and that these people are not only receiving false gospel teaching but it is also impregnated by Landmark philosophy.

Does anyone have information on this?

Oz

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Hillsong Church (AOG) - Brian and Bobbie Houston
Date: February 17, 2006 09:16PM

Hi Oz,

I made some comments in the LGAT area regarding what i had thought was some unusual terminology that i was listening to when looking for a church home here in Perth. (I didn't know at that time about LGAT's).
I guess with Hillsong being very large and influential and a 'modern' assembly, that this kind of thing could possibly exist.

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Hillsong Church (AOG) - Brian and Bobbie Houston
Posted by: kkbird7 ()
Date: February 19, 2006 11:38AM

anything is possible...but to classify Hillsong as a destructive church is a little far fetched. Hillsong music is extremly annointed. Human nature is not going to be perfect. there are going to be influences from the outside no matter how good the church. We can't judge a church on a few teachings that you don't agree with. Look at what kind of fruit is growing on the tree.

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Hillsong Church (AOG) - Brian and Bobbie Houston
Posted by: lightwolf ()
Date: February 20, 2006 03:18AM

Quote
kkbird7
Look at what kind of fruit is growing on the tree.
I think you have to do more than this. I don't know this church -- after all I'm on a different continent! But I would still say you do have to look at the fruit, AND you have to look at the roots. Check the geneology. This is what Concerned Oz is doing. Desireable fruit can be counterfeited or deceptive. But I think it harder to hide the origin of something. If the tree comes from something bad, the fruit is bad, regardless of how it looks.

If this church is infected with Landmark at the top, that needs to be exposed.

Good job Concerned Oz. Keep digging.

-lightwolf

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Hillsong Church (AOG) - Brian and Bobbie Houston
Posted by: kkbird7 ()
Date: February 20, 2006 03:52AM

if a tree is not healthy it cannot produce good fruit if the roots are bad fruit is not going to grow. I agree with looking deeper... I would be curious to know more about this other group and what terminology that is being referred to...have any examples? I am also on a different part of the world, but I have been to the services when they came to the US, seen many interviews, known quite a few friends to go to the conferences in Sydney. I will check out the websites listed above. I own several Hillsong CDs and if there is something not right about the group I do not want to support it.

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Hillsong Church (AOG) - Brian and Bobbie Houston
Posted by: Concerned Oz ()
Date: February 21, 2006 03:17PM

Judging an organisation or event by its fruits and/or roots alone can lead one into a false conclusion. Bad roots can produce good fruit - ie: the Masonic Hospitals.

Given that our visit to Hillsong was in May 2005, I can't recall the Landmark terminology spoken by the pastor but at the time we definately noted it. The reason for its existence and the Pastor's exposure to a shared philosophy with Landmark is the question. There certainly seemed to be a direct link given the purity of the content preached. This link may be from the top or through individuals of the church taking the Landmark Forum. In Sydney which has an estimate of 5,000 Forum graduates per year, it is not unlikely that members of the church have done the Forum given that they come from the same socio-economic group that Landmark targets. A Catholic Church equi-distant from where I live and where Hillsong is located has had the misfortune of all its lay leaders being Landmark Forum Graduates so Hillsong would not necessarily be immune to Landmark infiltration.

However from my investigations so far which are shown below, there is already an indirect link through a shared philosophy and by association:

1. The attached link describes a connection in philosophy with Prosperity Gospel/Positive Confession/Postitive Mental Attitude and the New Age Movement's Human Potential Movement of which Landmark is a major player:- [www.rapidnet.com]

2. The attached link is the "creed" of Hillsong - note the 3rd last statement stating its belief in Prosperity, consistant with the above link :- [www2.hillsong.com] Navigating through the Hillsong site will further illustrate the belief and proclaimation of the Prosperity Gospel.

3. A former Paster of Hillsong, Pat Mesiti, (now a paster of Christian City Church (AoG) in Brookvale, Sydney, is on the motivational speaking circuit addressing audiences of MLM members. Promoters who sponsor him also sponsor Robert Kiyosaki & Blair Singer of Scientology and Money & You LGAT fame though the associated link seems to be through Multi Level Marketing:- [www.asiamlm.com]
[www.mlmaustralia.com.au]
[secure1.ilisys.com.au]

4. Pat Mesiti's website is a little different to your average pastor's presentation :- [mesiti.com] Dated 21 Feb 2006, the page shows: "UPCOMING EVENTS!

Pat's Wealth Creation Seminar
Tuesday Feb 21
7 30pm - 9pm
Hillsong Auditorium (HUB)
For tickets please click here[/color:15e9a820b9]

...Even though Mesiti was sacked from Hillsong as a Pastor for commiting Adultry back in 2002 :- Sydney Morning Herald: [www.smh.com.au]

5. Finally, (or for now), the following link makes interesting reading as the writer refers to thought reform techniques used by Hillsong:- [www.chaser.com.au]

Hmmm...

(I still like there music though...)
Oz

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Hillsong Church (AOG) - Brian and Bobbie Houston
Posted by: kkbird7 ()
Date: February 22, 2006 08:20AM

Very interesting reading... I have to say that the "Prosperity Gospel" part of it and the emotional faith is a little disturbing. The last article was the most intrigueing when he talked about giving to God with a credit card! It seems to me that they are making God into a formula. That if you do (fill in the blank) then God will (fill in the blank). That is concerning to me. Then people put their trust in the formula, it does not work and then blame God...

thanks for the info... I will keep reading.

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Hillsong Church (AOG) - Brian and Bobbie Houston
Posted by: Concerned Oz ()
Date: February 22, 2006 09:24AM

On a recently posted news article on this site:
[b:c6edc32626]”God’s Millionaires”
Pentecostal churches are not waiting to inherit the earth. They are taking it now, tax-free.

Business Review Weekly Magazine, Austalian/May 26, 2005
By Adele Ferguson[/b:c6edc32626][/color:c6edc32626]
[www.culteducation.com]

I quote:
Quote

Nabi Saleh
Elder of Hillsong Church, a director of Southern Cross College of the AOG, a director of Jerry Savelle Ministries International, [b:c6edc32626]and a director of Kenneth Copeland Ministries Eagle Mountain International Church. [/b:c6edc32626]

He has a 50% share in the fast-growing coffee shop franchise Gloria Jean's Coffees, which is valued by BRW at more than $40 million.

The other partner, Peter Irvine, is a member of Hillsong. Saleh has stakes in many businesses (see the brains of the operation, page 41).

This very respected Australian Financial Magazine has presented the above statement that shows further evidence of Hillsong's strong links and philosophy/theology as consistant with the Human Potential Movement's ideology as stated above in my first posting:
Quote

1. The attached link describes a connection in philosophy with Prosperity Gospel/Positive Confession/Postitive Mental Attitude and the New Age Movement's Human Potential Movement of which Landmark is a major player:- [www.rapidnet.com]


As a note, I am not debating the theology of the Prosperity Gospel but rather showing how it is a not so strange bedfellow to the existential philosophy of the Human Potential Movement of which Landmark Education is a major player.
Oz

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Hillsong Church (AOG) - Brian and Bobbie Houston
Date: July 06, 2006 09:52PM

I suspect any and all of these new movements will resemble each other with their quick fix, plant-a-smile-on-your-face-and-get-on-with-it profiteering.

The "Don't be negative! All you need is a determination to succeed. And a credit card" baloney is the linking factor. I'm sure sociopathic Landmark graduates are infiltrating all sorts of areas and with their new gungho autism, probably loan themselves terrifically to these soul-less money-spinning enterprises.

I always find myself wondering where these organisations draw the line between their personal money-making and recruitment, and the integrity of their spiel. Does Tony Robbins really believe his power-babble is unique and powerful...AND ONLY LATER MAKE A FORTUNE? In concocting the latest campaign or marketing the new jargon-laden book, where does Bobbie and, who?, Brandy?, stand regarding their thinking about the product and their thinking about the profits? Not just on which side of the line but on a scale of one to a thousand?

I suspect the masterminds behind all these schemes, Landmark and Hillsong, Scientology and the Church of I-can-now-deal-with-life-with-100%-efficiency-and-a-glazed-look-on-my-face, all fall deep on the side of money-making. And I suspect the similarities lie therein.

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Hillsong Church (AOG) - Brian and Bobbie Houston
Posted by: wizeone ()
Date: July 10, 2006 04:42PM

Em, of smilar ilk to city impact church

Very heavey on prosperity and would suspect new apostolic reformation movement as well

Do you have a link for the landmark stuff

[www.christian-witness.org]

[www.smh.com.au]

Quote

Hillsong Church 'misused welfare'

HILLSONG Church is generating money by recycling public funds aimed at disadvantaged people back into its own coffers through tithes, a NSW MP has alleged.
Labor MP Ian West has written to a NSW ombudsman asking him to investigate the claims that Hillsong is giving electricity vouchers to financially strapped people, then drawing them into the church, where they are asked to pay 10 per cent of their income as a tithe.

The allegations are the latest raising questions about the relationship between Hillsong Church, what it calls its benevolent arm, Hillsong Emerge, and the millions of dollars Hillsong Emerge receives from governments for public services.

In his letter to the Energy and Water Ombudsman, Mr West notes Hillsong Emerge is one of the organisations entitled to hand out state-funded Energy Accounts Payment Assistance vouchers. "I understand that current arrangements for EAPA vouchers are intended to assist persons suffering financial hardship caused by, for example, a loss of income, a very high electricity or gas bill, an illness in the family, a family crisis or unexpected expenses of bills," Mr West writes in the letter.

Mr West says he has been in contact with social workers dealing with disadvantaged people.

"In assisting them to identify weekly income and outgoings, it came to their attention that the low-income persons were in receipt of EAPA and food vouchers on a regular basis," he writes. "However, the low-income persons were also adamant they were required to pay a tithe to their local church, Hillsong.

"I would be concerned if taxpayers were, through EAPA vouchers, effectively subsidising activities not related to financial hardship," he said.

The Australian has been in contact with a social worker who said she had encountered people who had been through this experience with Hillsong.

Hillsong Emerge's media officer, Maria Ieroianni, would not answer questions and said the organisation's chief executive, Leigh Coleman, would not make himself available for interview.

But Hillsong Church's "new people" pastor, David Crafts, said his understanding was that when Hillsong Emerge was assisting people, it would "encourage people to come along to the church".

Asked if the church asked people to donate tithes, Mr Crafts said "very much so".

"We ask for 10 per cent of their income," he said.

Apart from the state funds Hillsong Emerge receives, it has obtained millions of dollars in funds from the federal Government, most recently a controversial $414,000 grant under a crime-reduction program administered by federal Justice Minister Chris Ellison.

Mr Ellison has refused calls from NSW Labor MPs and a mayor for an investigation into the grant, which has yet to be paid out. Mr West has alleged in parliament that Hillsong Emerge applied for one grant in partnership with the Riverstone Aboriginal community, which was unsuccessful, then put in a second, similar application on its own.

He said Hillsong Emerge had made the second, successful application without the knowledge of the Aboriginal community, and falsely claimed its support.

In an earlier statement to The Australian, Ms Ieroianni denied allegations that Hillsong Emerge had "sexed up" the second application to highlight violence in the Aboriginal community.

But the grant application, of which The Australian has obtained a copy, refers to "indigenous and non-indigenous young people" who "join gangs" and commit crimes.

"The partners will also work with the victims of crime, people who live in fear of leaving their homes, in fear of robbery or assault, in fear of youth gangs," the grant application say

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