Hi Morwyn

Weird how things turn out. I just had one of those "I'll just check this thread on Rick ross" tonight. Have dropped you a PM with my email. As you can see from this thread City Impact people tend to troll the net looking for who knows what

I want to know,or rather,hear from people who have attended The Church of Christ NZ Mt.Roskill and left.What are your views on it?

It has been a while since you posted this query regarding the Church of Christ. My family, including me, attended this church. I left there when I was 20. I have been effectively away from churchs, as a result, for over 30 years. I have been attending City Impact for over the last 10 months, very carefully I might add, and there are aspects that have concerned me. However, I have decided not to throw the baby out with the bathwater at this point in time. I will say this.............if any one thinks City Impact is a cult then they better think again. There is no comparison between City Impact and churchs such as the Church of Christ as it existed when I attended. The Church of Christ ticks most of the boxes that this site uses as a yardstick. I am happy to discuss both but it appears that this thread may have died a natural death.

As I recall "City Impact" is a somthing like a splinter group with historical links to the ICOC, once led by Kip McKean.

Do they still teach discipleship and have discipling partners?

Do they teach members that churches outside of their own have salvation? What churches do they specifically name that people can go to outside of their own that they can be equally spiritually fed?

Do they have democratically elected church government? That is, a board elected by the general membership to fixed terms, which must stand for re-election according to church bylaws? If they do can the board fire staff such as pastors etc.? If they do does the elected board control the church finances?

Is an independently audited annual budget published and distributed to all donors that discloses in detail all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from church funds?

These are some things to look for to better understand if the group might be potentially unsafe. Without such safeguards churches often are authoritarian and may become essentially dictatorships with little if any meaningful accountability.

RR moderator, City Impact was orginally Browns Bay christian fellowship which was founded by the now senior pastors. As far as i know there are no overt links to Church of Christ

Windyrock

I would agree that on the surface City Impact does not resemble a cult.

Just watch what happens if you find yourself disgareeing with the messages coming across the pulpit and happen to express that to any members of leadership. You will find that you get over looked for volunteering or told that you need to sit under the word of god more.

A couple of questions

Does the mini sermons on tithing still occur during the services?

Do they still preach that God can only bless you if you are under correct authority and giving a minimum of 10% a week plus tithes, plus offerings

Do they still have the sacrifical offerings, where in the weeks before hand, you get to hear all the stories about how people pegged their prayer requests to their sacrifical offering and how god only granted their requests because they gave to sacrifical offerings

You may have heard about how gifted Peter Mortlock in words of knowledge. How that works is that all information from pastoral care sessions is shared with the senior pastors in their weekly staff meetings. If you've been or any of your family through baptism you may have been pretty amazed at how accurate that word of knowledge was that Peter spoke over your life.

Does Peter still preach that you would be in City Impact church on a sunday under the word of God. Or that a christian shouldnt get into church hopping?

I could go on.

Not a cult in the traditional sense. A very unhealthy environment, and be aware that if you ever end up talking to the pastors about anything confidential, it doesnt stay with them, it is discussed in the weekly staff meetings.

I have a special needs son. I was suprise when I was told he is not allowed to go to the Kids church. There story was that some mums will not like it when they walked in and see him in there with there kids. Is these kids not part of Gods creation as well.? Paster Tim and Jeanine was the leading pastors here. I did ask Pastor Peter to contact me as I was not sure that this was his view as well. Well it is 4 month now and he is still contacting me. Make you think

Yeah, well it isn't exactly Biblical is it? I would agree with you, and what a strange response from them.

I think that the event taken as a whole is actually quite a blessing to you though - I used to attend City Impact Church for an extended period of time, and I would firmly advise that you make the decision to stay away from the church. If you aren't sure I can give you many reasons as to why.

If you like “lights, camera and action”, then you’ll love City Impact Church! They certainly know how to put on a show.
They aren’t ALL bad, the worship is great and there are some nice people there who obviously have no idea what is going on. But they’ve got a LOT wrong.

We only spent about 3 months at that church and nobody really knew us. We were very hurt and disillusioned by this church and would warn anyone we meet against it.

We were passed on to various people who frantically tried to keep their heads above water. People were outwardly friendly – but we could tell it wasn’t really from the heart. It was just to keep up appearances. Their administrative system is a complete mess and there was a lot of confusion with their “training” programmes. How sorry I am that I wasted $50 on that (and never even finished it)! They do not make disciples, they make converts. Has anyone checked how many “members” actually stay at that church long-term?

Nobody explained anything about how things worked there – we were just expected to fall in line and start doing what everyone else did – VERY WEIRD and impersonal. We were told to lift our hands – I was even told to keep quiet – (I was softly crying at the time while I was moved during prayer). It felt more like a cattle herd to me than a church, especially when there was a function on with free food. There was no order – everyone just pushed and shoved and old people were left to fend for themselves as everyone including children pushed in line, piling up their plates and helped themselves to as much food as they liked while others didn’t get any. They believe in the covering or protection of their head pastor – this is foreign to us.

There were a lot of little “odd” things that happened, but the worst for me was the fact that they preach a different Gospel than the Gospel Paul preached (Paul said anyone who did that would be accursed). This I found out whilst attending their intro course. I made the fatal mistake of questioning one of their leaders about the grace of Jesus Christ and was met with aggression. This was followed up by and affirmed by comments from a senior pastor in their employ that if we didn’t feel City impact was for us, we should “move on”. Obviously our “doctrine” was not “in line” with theirs. They feel they have to earn God’s love and you can see it on the fake smiles on the faces of the leadership in this church.

How can anyone be truly happy, whilst living under condemnation and serving out of a sense of duty? Jesus came to set us free – this church doesn’t preach freedom in Christ.

Hi there,

do tell me what are the churches in Auckland's Pakuranga, Howick, Botany area I could attend ?
I prefer messages from pastors who preach bible based messages which are uplifting, positive, encouraging, Godly messages...
pastors with charisma and stage presence...and also good Godly worship.

Charisma and stage presence and worship very important....Pastors or Speakers with "fire" in their heart and conviction in their message.
Lots of sincerity.

However, Don't want to support any hypocrite money-minded or self-serving Pastor or Church Staff !

I am sick and tired of flat boring dull messages which are not encouraging.. messages which did nothing for my spiritual walk.....and seem so "out of touch" with current challenges in our lives... or Pastors who are pompous and used big words or used too many bible verses which did not seem to help their message....but simply to impress the congregation.....or I am turned off by pastors whose messages are so shallow and simple and empty....point form messages or bullet point messages...or pastors who are insincere or who don't share their own lives or experiences or weaknesses or challenges....turned off by pastors at the pulpit who seem to be preaching as a "job" or "career" and no passion or not preaching from his / her heart.

I have been to City Impact Church services many times and enjoy the messages.
I take the messages as positive and uplifting.
It is all about encouraging our own personal relationship with God, between each individual and Jesus and our daily lives.

Nonetheless, I am wary of churches who kept asking for money.
Hence, I am always very careful about giving money away.
I also watch to see where and how God's money is spent.
All these are God's money !!
The money does not belong to the Pastors or church staffs or Congregation.

I believe if the pastors and church staffs are not using God's money for God's purpose...then God will discipline them.
God will punish them. The Holy Spirit will "GET" these corrupted individuals.
Justice is God's.

What kind of houses the pastors and church staffs / directors live in ?
What kind of cars they drive ?
What kind of life-styles they live ?
Where do they eat ?
What do they drink ?
Where do they holiday ?
How do they entertain ?
What watches do they wear ?
What clothes do they wear ?
Shoes ?
What salaries and benefits and any other form of income does the church pay the pastors and staffs and directors ?

If the church's pastors and staffs are living HUMBLE lives....then, you will know.

God Bless all Christians.
We are Christians.
Lets uplift each other UP.
Do Not fall into Satan's trickery....which is to tear down and weaken and divide God's people....so be wary. Be Wise. Be alert.
Listen to the Holy Spirit living in each and every True Christian.
Listen to the Holy Spirit living in You and Me.

WeAreChristians:

You say that you want "pastors with charisma" and that you are "sick and tired of flat boring dull messages".

Cult leader Jim Jones was a charismatic leader that offered exiting messages. And so was evangelist Jimmy Swaggart and TV preacher Jim Bakker.

See the following links about this pastors.

[www.culteducation.com] Jim Jones
[www.culteducation.com] Jim Bakker
See also [www.culteducation.com] about TBN, Swaggart and Bakker

Jesus said that many would come in his name, but he would not know them.

You said, "I believe if the pastors and church staffs are not using God's money for God's purpose...then God will discipline them.
God will punish them. The Holy Spirit will "GET" these corrupted individuals.
Justice is God's."

No. Paul wasn't God, but he judged leaders and preached against corrupt authority in Galatians. The New Testament has specific requirements for deacons, elders and evangelists. Believers can and should hold people in leadership roles accountable.

Churches today have created and developed meaningful safeguards to protect the members of a congregation against abusive leadership. This includes creating church constitutions that provide for democratic government that protect congregants through bylaws that include specific delegated checked and balanced powers. Typically Protestant churches have democratically elected church boards elected by secret ballot. Board members are elected by the general membership, they then serve fixed terms and must stand for re-election. The board often has officers (e.g. President, treasurer, secretary, etc.) and the board decides upon such things as the budget, hiring and firing of staff, etc. The pastor can be fired for misconduct or for doing a poor job, depending upon the terms of his contract.

You said, "What salaries and benefits and any other form of income does the church pay the pastors and staffs and directors ?"

But that needs to be checked by specifically provided for and regular disclosure. This is typically done through detailed annual budget, which is independently audited by an outside accounting firm and then distributed to all church donors. That budget should disclose in detail all salaries, benefits, compensation and expenses that are paid out from church funds. Without this type of transparency there is no meaningful accountability regarding church money and no one really knows where the money goes other than the leaders.

The overwhelming majority of churches today have these simple safeguards to protect congregants and insure meaningful accountability.

"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". It's not about belief it's about behavior. Human beings have a tendency to fall short and make mistakes. Democratic church government and meaningful financial transparency hold leaders accountable and provides for safety.

If your church doesn't have such checks and balances it's little more than a dictatorship no matter how you attempt to rationalize or spin it.

Does the church have a constitution and bylaws that have all these provisions?

Are there regular elections by secret ballot to select board members?

Can the elected board members hire and fire staff including the pastor?

Does every church contributor know about every salary, benefit package and expense paid out from church funds through an annually audited church budget that they have received?

These are questions that will demonstrate what kind of church you are in, either one with meaningful safeguards or a dictatorship.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2013 11:38PM by rrmoderator.