Believerof1,

[b:479404cf09]Your an animal and I love you for it. I wish more guys had your passion, we'd kick the devil's butt all over the place. You will make huge impact in the kingdom of God. Jesus likes guys like you, your kind of like peter, cutting peoples ear off for those you love. I am proud to call you a friend. It takes a man to apologize the way you did.[/b:479404cf09]

Hawk I hope we can all work something out. The He said she said gets old. Again believerof1 is just trying to defend what he loves. I am sure he will say that at times he could direct his frustration a little better.

As you seem to be defending your point also. Apart from the personal attacks I think that progress can be made.

How about a treaty?

Beliverof1 I prefer a guy like you any day of the week. I always know what your thinking because you say it, no beating around the bush, the world would be much different if we were all like you.

Hawk honest question: Do you think any Pastor could control a guy like believerof1? If you ask his pastor I am sure that he will tell you the believerof1 shares his opinion frequently without fear of being persecuted or ostricized. He might also tell you that believerof1 has a mind of his own (and he is still a welcome part of the church), he definitley is not a puppet for his pastor, however I know from personal observation that he is a faithful disciple that can take direction, but he is by no means controlled. Case in point do you think his pastor would have OK'ed his last few post.

Pastor Jason Townsell

PASTOR J,
I THANK YOU FOR YOUR KIND WORDS, AND WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SAY THAT I KNOW GOD AND MY PASTOR WOULD NOT OK MY ACTIONS, BUT I ACTED IN A MANNER OF DEFENSE, ONLY IN DEFENSE. I FELT THAT OUR PASTOR WAS UNDER ATTACK AND I CHOSE TO DEFEND HIM, REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME, POOR JUDGEMENT, PROBABLY SO.

NEVERTHELESS, “HAWK”, YOU DID SAY SOME PRETTY JACKED UP THINGS, ESPECIALLY AFTER I APOLOGIZED TO YOU THAT WAS NOT COOL. ONCE AGAIN I FELT YOU ATTACKED ME PERSONALLY, WHICH YOU DID DO WHETHER YOU ADMIT IT OR NOT. ANYWAYS, LIKE PASTOR J SAID, YOUR OPINIONS AND MINE ARE JUST DIFFERENT, NO NEED TO CONTINUE TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE.

THIS IS JUST A SUGGESTION, THAT’S ALL THIS IS. “HAWK” NO HIDDEN STRINGS, NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE YOU OF ANYTHING, SO DON’T TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY. COME TO OUR CHURCH ONCE, SAY YOUR NAME IS BILLYBOB OR SOMETHING, WHO CARES, JUST COME AND SEE WHAT YOU THINK OF US AND THEN YOU CAN FORM YOUR OPINIONS. I “GUARANTEE” YOU WOULD NOT BE DISAPPOINTED AND MAYBE LIKE IT. AGAIN THIS IS “NOT” A PLOY TO GET YOU TO COME SEE WHAT WERE ABOUT, I THINK ANY REASONABLE MAN WOULD DO IT. IF YOU DON’T WANT TO COME THAT’S FINE ALSO, BUT DON’T TAKE THIS OUT OF HAND AGAIN, ITS JUST AN INVITATION, THAT’S IT. EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DECLINE AN INVITATION, NO BIG DEAL

ANYWAYS, I WILL TO STOP THIS MADNESS AND MOVE ON TOWARDS ALOT BIGGER AND BETTER THINGS. (LIKE JUST SERVING GOD)

I AM WILLING TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT I CAN IN THE BEST WAY I KNOW HOW.

IM OUT,
JASON S.
PCLH

No need to shout. Please turn off your caps lock. -EZ[/color:0c501ae190]

Preacherman and believerof1 seem to be here to simply defend and offer apologies for Praise Chapel.

Their admissions and refusal to address key points is very interesting though.

Apparently there is no meaningful accountability and no financial transparency at most if not all Praise Chapels.

No regular member seems to know what exact salaries and compensation is paid out to pastors through independently audited and published annual disclosure.

And the pastors apparently have no accreditted educational requirements either, such as a college degree and post-graduate seminary degree.

The Praise Chapel clergy appear to rule much like petty dictators essentially doing whatever they want.

If this is not the case there would be democratically elected church government, detailed and published financial disclosure and educational requirements (college and seminary) for pastors.

Notice how those defending the group attempt circle around, ignore and/or evade these objective points.

Most Protestant churches have these safeguards and standards, but it seems Praise Chapel does not.

ONE LAST WARNING.

RANTING ON AND ON AND POSTING PERSONAL ATTACKS OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS NOT MEANINGFUL PARTICIPATION ON THIS BOARD.

IF YOU ARE HERE TO HARASS THOSE POSTING CRITICISM OF PRAISE CHAPEL, YOU WILL EVENTUALLY BE BANNED.

Hawk:

Don't let these people chase you off the board.

If they continue in the same pattern they will be banned.

Hang in there and don't be intimidated.

As far as I am concerned, I really see no need for me to post any further comments. Persons post here and change their usernames, blatantly violate the rules of this forum, take on and confront the moderator, and just add confusion to the mix.

Whichever "Jason" it was, the one who claimed to be a "PC leader," he has already demonstrated my point on what constitutes a cult, along with exhibiting the attitudes and behavior patterns that are developed and thus become prevalent within the parameters that define a cult. In fact, the type of attitude I've seen displayed here only serves to solidify my position. And I find no admonishment of this one who claims to be a “Leader.” Instead I find the opposite, with what I consider to be hearty thumbs up, praise and pat’s on the back, not to mention excuses made for the individual. So again I see that Praise Chapel exists not so much to bring others to Christ as it does solely to support the cause; and praise those who are in their leadership establishment no matter what they may say, no matter what they may do, no matter what methods they may choose to employ to accomplish their goals. Clearly I see that as a lack of accountability. While some may call it "zeal," others may see it as I do, authoritarianism under the totalistic system. And, clearly that which has been demonstrated time and again as a defensiveness that results in the intolerance of member-critics.

It is my opinion that Praise Chapel operates on the same principle as the “Frog in the Boiling Water Theory.” In other words, incrementally. If one were to drop a frog in a pan of boiling water, the frog would immediately jump out, realizing immediately that something was very seriously wrong. But if you place the same frog in a pan of cool water, then slowly turn up the heat incrementally, the frog will find himself boiled without even realizing it. This is how the manipulation and conditioning techniques are employed over a period of time that I estimate to be approximately six months.

While it may serve its purpose for some, the ends do not justify the means as far as I'm concerned. I don't think many would like to attend a church where this type of behavior is evidenced, whereas these types of “leaders” are praised, whereas efforts are made to keep it concealed, whereas excuses are made for the individual who supports the cause regardless of the methods used.

I think that believers should be hearers of the Good News, and come to Christ on their own, willingly, and then remain in a fellowship of believers because they want to by their own choice, their own volition, and their own free will. Not by control techniques such as guilt and fear, and many other methods that have already been named. Finally, I have come to the conclusion that Praise Chapel is not about Christ as much as it is about adherence to the system they have established, a mirror image of the Potter’s House mold.

I apologize to any and all I may have offended with my sarcasm, analogies, and most especially my satire. Many Blessings to all the Jason’s out there and the believers, may you always be led by the truth, and best of luck to you.

Hawk

Hawk:

Again, don't let these people chase you off.

This message board is not perfect, but it is fairly well moderated and a safe place to express yourself and share ideas.

You have made some very good points and brought out interesting things for the public to consider.

Thank you.

Moderator: Understood.

Praise Chapel seems to exist in a state of spiritual lawlessness. And such an existence without proper rules, guidelines and boundaries opens the door wide for the spiritual abuses that take place. One can think of it as a wild west scenario, like a "Tombstone" or "Dodge City" without any sheriff or marshal to keep things under control or at least in balance. And thus the townspeople are left under the authority of whichever warlord or gang leader happens to be in charge. Agree with your warlord and everything will be fine, but don't dare to question their authority... or else.

Hawk:

Exactly my point regarding church government, educational requirements and financial transparency.

This is how the overwhelming majority of Protestant churches keep the peace and provide meaningful checks and balances.

Without such safeguards it really can easily become a wild west show.

It's really a kind of "put up or shut up" situation. Either a church and pastor prove that such objective and meaningful safeguards exist, or shut up and admit you don't and the group is essentially a "war lord" run dictatorship.

Preacherman and believerof1 seem to be here to simply defend and offer apologies for Praise Chapel.

Their admissions and refusal to address key points is very interesting though.

Apparently there is no meaningful accountability and no financial transparency at most if not all Praise Chapels.

No regular member seems to know what exact salaries and compensation is paid out to pastors through independently audited and published annual disclosure.

And the pastors apparently have no accreditted educational requirements either, such as a college degree and post-graduate seminary degree.

The Praise Chapel clergy appear to rule much like petty dictators essentially doing whatever they want.

If this is not the case there would be democratically elected church government, detailed and published financial disclosure and educational requirements (college and seminary) for pastors.

Quote


Moderator, I don'[ think this is a fair statement. It was never sais that our pastors don't have any kind of accreditted education.

I think that it has attempted to be demonstrated several times that there is meaningful financial, and dicsiplinary accountability.

Although you may think that we are petty dictators who do whatever we want, I respectfully disagree.

It has ben stated several times that monthly reports are completed and submitted, according with the donor's bill of rights you posted earlier.

It's important to understand that not all churfhes do all thinks the same, but that doesn't incriminate those that do it differently. In fact many denominations have their own training system for pastors and leaders. In fact most have their own educational system, why is it wrong for PC to have it's own educational system. Seminary is not a badge for the holy.

Moderator I don't believer anyone his attempting to run Hawk off the board. In fact I think it's the opposite.

You said that many posters are just PC defenders, well I can't disagree it's natural and proper to defend what you love.

Moderator all the checks an balances you have spoken of are present and have been adressed. I don't think there is any side stepping of issues. I am an open book.

I don't think you want to see that accountability is of the utmost importance if it weren't I wouldn't say the it were, I would just defend with no justification.