Preaching your religious beliefs here and posting personal attacks is not permitted within the guidelines.

Quote


I apologize if my comments as preacherman seemed like an attack. I did not intend that. Neither did I intend to impose any religious beliefs I am what I believe.

I just feel that there is a unfair amount of spin being put on everything said. I have stated several times that I believe in financial accountability, and that we practice financial accountability through an independent accountant, but my oint is consistently twisted.

I never stated that all other churches were wrong or that boards and committees are wrong. My point was simply that these can become the focus instead of the true purpose.

I never comdemned other groups or belief systems.

Does the organization have a clear and strong commitment to a certain project area?

Is there an independent board that accepts responsibility for the activities of the organization and oversees its operations?

Are the financial records audited annually by certified public accountants?

Are copies of the audited financial statements provided to anyone who requests them?

Is information provided to donors about any program that the donors have supported?

How does the organization avoid conflicts of interest?
What are its guidelines and standards for fund-raising?

Is there a review procedure to assure compliance with fund-raising standards and guidelines?

The answers to all the above questions is yes. I don't understand the spin.

What sentiments do I make clear.

I welcome questions, I have not attacked anyone. It's the spin and slander that I resent.

I feel posting here is pointless. Members like Hawk don't want to discuss issues or even be open to understand anything. The focus seems to be slander and spin. I will pray for all who have been abused. However I will no longer post here.

Hawk I hope your situation never happens to another person. I hope you learn to deal with your bitterness and that you find a good church home where you can be used of God. It seems like you have a lot of zeal.


God bless
A PC Pastor

pastor:

This is your first post, unless you posted under another name?

Did you do that?

It's against the rules.

If the answer was "yes" as you claimed on the above points you would be able to send a copy of the independently audited financial report that is published by your Praise Chapel distributed to all members.

However, you just decided to sign off instead.

And regarding the sentiments of "Preacherman," this in part was pertaining to a constitution and bylaws at any Praise Chapel that would provide for accountability through democratically elected church government, which can discipline and if necessary fire a pastor.

Again, instead of providing objective proof of such safeguards exist at your church you have chosen instead to not post.

OK.

There doesn't seem to be any misunderstanding here at all, regarding "Preacherman" and/or your sentiments.

This is a "no spin zone."

Moderator,

Yes there is a misunderstanding. When I posted on another computer it automatically logged me in as preacherman. Maybe it hads been used before by another. So a few of my post came in under that name. I am now on a computer in another office so it required me to re register.

Any breaking of the rules was incidental an unintentional, no games are being played I have identified myself as Pastor Jason everytime. The records are posted and given to members. However I would be very happy to do what I can to clear up this slanderous talk. It's just not right.

I never said that the congregation can fire a pastor. I stated that the board could intervene in disciplinary situations.

Those were my sentiments.

Pastor:

The previous posts covered this.

If you have democratically elected church government and meaningful financial transparency send the paperwork to demonstrate this.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Mailing address.

Let's have substance not "spin."

I will note on this thread when and what documentation is received.

"I feel posting here is pointless. Members like Hawk don't want to discuss issues or even be open to understand anything. The focus seems to be slander and spin. I will pray for all who have been abused. However I will no longer post here. "

I think the Lord wrote a few more things in the sand before all of the remaining Pharisees finally left, and then He said, "Where have your accusers gone?"

I don't want to discuss issues? Well, I mentioned several points in my last post of things that consitute a cult. But seems noboby cares to deny them. Instead, again you launch into attack mode, then accuse of slander and spin? Both slander and spin I recognize as typical Praise Chapel responses. Nobody slandered you. In fact you slandered yourself as evidenced by your own attitude and comments. The only spin I see here is what you try to promote and cloud the issue of PC being a cult.

Open to understanding? Understanding what? What constitues a cult? Just because someone disagrees with you, that gives you license and opportunity to slap a label on them, classify them as not being open to understanding, then dismiss them. Well I'll tell you what, I gave four years of sincere and honest effort of trying to be understanding. Now I wonder if perhaps Jim Jones didn't say something along similar lines. You should be open to understanding.

"Hawk I hope your situation never happens to another person. I hope you learn to deal with your bitterness and that you find a good church home where you can be used of God. It seems like you have a lot of zeal."

So I have to learn to deal with my bitterness? No thanks, I kinda like it, since I do consider it a Godly anger. But again need I point out that this is how they treat you at PC... See, I'm the one with the problem. They don't like to be criticized, that's for sure, because the moment you speak out against them (Pharisees) suddendly they turn it around and try to put the blame on you. See that? Not only am I rebellious, but now I have bitterness as well.

Seems I need to find a good church home. Hummm. Yes well I do happen to be in a fellowship of believers, but I will not mention where. Let's just say it's along more traditional lines, without the high demands and forced compliance tactics that PC uses. But let me point out here as well, this is a typical PC doctrine, that you must be in a church in order to be saved. And, early on I stated, that my salvation is not dependent upon being in any church. My salvation is through Christ alone. I hope my situation never happens to another person, but as long as cults like PC continue, others will continue to fall victim to desctructive churches.

Funny how the thief who died on the cross next to Jesus, the one who repented... Just how did he get admitted to heaven without being in a church and out from under the covering? See, I'm no better than that thief. And if there is anyone in that bible who I would compare myself to, it would be him. So check it out. No discipleship classes, no tithing, no love offerings, not outreaches, no works, no guilt trips from pastors... Gee, that thief wasn't even in leadership. In fact, all he did was believe in Jesus and repent.

Here's an issue I very much would like to discuss though... Exactly how much, what percentage, what cut of the pie does each Praise Chapel send of their tithes and offerings to the Mother church in Huntington Park. I ask again since no one cared to comment last time I mentioned pyramid schemes or multi-level marketing.

Oops! Did I just overturn a moneychanger's table?

Hawk, seems to me you keep flapping your lips with absolutely no merit, when it’s been you all along with your slanderous words and attacks. All small caps would be you, again I say small. Let’s Read and I Quote:

“They are a sham, only attempting to rob God of the glory to keep it for themselves, and robbing from the people in the form of tithes and offerings and even your personal life as ransom or tax for which you are now indebted. Praise Chapel and Potter's House, God does not hear you, but He does hear the individual believer.”

“The Pharisees considered themselves the elite, but in fact were the biggest of liars and hypocrites. Not unlike many of today’s Pharisees, the cult leaders and leadership in places like PH and PC.”

“Truly PH and PC Pastors and those in leadership are spiritually blind. Show me the difference between this Pharisee.”

“"Slick" Sylvia

“Thanks Bro Naboth... I just went there and had to post, my user name is Hawk. I read all the garbage that "Greg" individual posted, to include his phone number which he was told not to do. And for what purpose? So he can get people on the phone and try and talk them into attending his church? Use the old silver tongue to razzle dazzle em into his church because he's the best?”

NOW HE’S TALKING SMACK ON MY PASTOR, OH , BUT HE NEVER TALKED ISH.

“Praise Crapple (Chapel)”

“Praise Chapel pastor available to
interpret it for you, aye? Or your friendly neighborhood Pharisee”

“Also I
expressed that if the Praise Chapel churches were different, then why
does the mother church ignore complaints, and the fact that at least 3
people I know who have reported the same incidents at other ones.”

YOUR KIDDING ME A WHOLE (3) OUT OF THE THOUSANDS THAT SERVE GOD THRU PC AROUND THE WORLD. BETTER SHUT EM DOWN A WHOLE (3) ARE UPSET.

“I hope that I got the point across that this is not about one renegade
pastor in a lone church that has gone amok”

MORE ISH TALKING!!!!

BELIEVEROF1---------“I've seen other blogs @ different forums and you just continue to rip pastors and churches from our fellowship, sounds just like something Jesus would do. My suggestion to you is let it go "man" life is to short to have all this anger built up inside you. God still loves you brother.”

HAWK------------Blogs? Different forums? Pastors and churches from your fellowship? Really? Which ones? Be specific. Must you resort to outright lies? I only post on one other message board. I give my input of the truth as it pertains to the subject and my experiences in the cult known as Praise Chapel. We also discuss scripture, speak freely, exchange ideas, experiences, give opinions and different points of view. Something you are not allowed to do at PC.

I THINK I’VE PROVEN WHO THE LIAR IS AND WHO THE ISH TALKER IS HERE @ THIS SITE, JUST LOOK ABOVE. I HAVE NEVER ONCE HID BEHIND MY KEYBOARD “HAWK” LIKE YOU. WE ALL KNEW WHERE I SERVED AND WHO I WAS.

“According to my tithing records, my grand total comes to over $16,000.00”

IM IMPRESSED “NOT” LETS BRAG SOME MORE (PHARISEE).

“It's all about Humbleness and Humility”

TRY ACTING LIKE IT!!!!!!!!

“Thanks Brother. Yesterday you mentioned moral cowardice with regard to this individual. You know, even before you mentioned it, that thought came to mind. On a lighter note, to me he kind of sounded like the Cowardly Lion from the "Wizard of Oz." I could almost hear the words from one scene where the Lion said something like, "Where's he at? Let me at 'em, let me at 'em! Put up your dukes! Put 'em up!"

”But really it is pathetic... seems like a schoolboy on the playground with his mention of "being fair" and what he wouldn't tolerate. All he does is repeat everything he's heard in PC and everything has been brainwashed to say and do. It was also an eye-opener for me to see exactly how his attitude and mentality are exactly the same as in the PC I was enslaved at. Perfect example. They're all the same.”

LETS SEE, I TALK ISH ACCORDING TO YOU AND GET CALLED A PHARISEE, THEN I COME OUT AND APOLOGIZE AND THEN GET CALLED BRAINWASHED, SO WHOS ATTACKING WHO HERE. “SCHOOLBOY” WHOS ATTACKING WHO HERE, LET IT BE KNOWN AND KNOWN WELL, YOU KNOW WHERE I ATTEND, SO QUIT HIDING BEHIND YOUR KEYBOARD AND LIKE BOB BARKER WOULD SAY “COME ON DOWN”. ODDS TELL ME YOU WON’T, BUT YOU JUST WANT TO KEEP TALKING ISH. YOU MADE THIS PERSONAL I DIDN’T. ALSO WHOEVER EDITS THIS SITE NEEDS TO POST THIS, TURNAROUND IS FAIR PLAY. HE (HAWK) MADE IT PERSONAL IM JUST DEFENDING MYSELF AND FAMILY.

“Just a note that may be interesting how the Pharisees all come out to defend when they think their church is under attack.”

AGAIN THIS IS YOU ON THE ATTACK!!!!!!!
SO LET ME ASK YOU IF I CALLED YOU OUT AND SAID YOU WEREN’T NOTHING AND WHAT YOU STOOD FOR WAS I JOKE, WOULD YOU DEFEND YOURSELF, LETS WAIT AND SEE. I WOULD GATHER TO SAY THAT YOU WILL AND WILL SOON. NOW YOU KNOW HOW WE FEEL, WERE JUST DEFENDING OURSELVES. NO ONE HAS ATTACKED YOU UNTIL NOW DESERVINGLY SO I WOULD SAY, BUT ACCORDING TO YOU WE TALKED SO MUCH ISH, WHEN ITS OBVIOUS WHOS BEEN ATTACKING WHO. LOOK ABOVE, THIS FORUM WAS STARTED TO DISCUSS VIEWSAND YOU TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THAT. I THINK I PROVED MY POINT ABOUT YOU AND WHO YOU ARE, NOTHING BUT A ISH TALKER WITH NO CLUE OF WHAT IT TAKES TO SERVE GOD.
SURE, YOU MIGHT SAY I CANT BELIEVE HES TALKING LIKE THIS, BUT YOU MADE PERSONAL ATTACKS ON ME FROM BEHIND A KEYBOARD. I WILL DEFEND MYSELF AND PASTORS OF THIS FELLOWSHIP REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU “THINK” OF ME. LET ME HEAR IT, HES NOT A CHRISTIAN, TYPICAL PC, PHARISEE, ETC, ALL IM DOING IS FLIPPING THE SCRIPT ON YOU.
SO WHY DON’T YOU AND NABOTH, CAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE IT’S JUST YOU TWO WITH THE PROBLEM OVER THERE ON HIS LINK, STAY OVER THERE CAUSE THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A TWO WAY DEBATE, NOT A BASHING AND ATTACKING FORUM, AGAIN LOOK ABOVE.
LASTLY IF YOU DO RESPOND TO THIS, MY POINT IS FURTHER PROVEN. HOW? YOUR JUST DEFENDING YOURSELF,RIGHT. WELCOME TO OUR SIDE OF THIS DEBATE.
P.S. YOU NEVER ONCE TALKED ISH ABOUT PC OR ITS PASTORS MY BAD, SORRY BRO.
A PROUD SERVANT AND LEADER OF PCLH
JASON S.

Hummm… Interesting. So I see you’ve found some more stones to cast Jason ol boy. Bravo! Funny you should use the word “slander” in your previous posting, though it does stand to reason. Why? Because the word itself is a legal term that carries with it a legal definition. Given the highly extreme LEGALISTIC nature of Praise Chapel, I’m not in the least bit surprised. Neither am I impressed. Words like Slander and spin are nothing more than PC “Buzz words” to try to divert your audience away from the truth.

So you think you’ve proven who the liar is? “However I will no longer post here.” Then why are you still posting? Now who is the liar?

Anyway, so you claim, but I have lied about nothing, and neither have you proven anything at all… well besides your ignorance perhaps. (Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools…) Do you really think you’re going to prove you case and make your point by taking things I wrote at the Slam the Door site and then bring them over and post them here? That’s a pretty cheap shot if you ask me, but everyone should know that PC is very good at cheap shots and underhand tactics. Why is it a cheap shot? Because everything that was cut and pasted by you over here is taken completely out of context from the forum in which it originated. You have some of my remarks, carefully chosen, yet without the proper context they have little relevance here. That should be expected though as PC Pastors are very good at taking things out of context like the bible for example. But that’s beside the point, you’ve got nothing else to go on so here you are clutching at straws. Well I stand behind every word that I wrote before, whether in another forum or here, and such as I write now. You bring things from another source and thus once again attempt your smokescreen maneuver and try to cloud the issue. Guess what? It’s not working.

“Schoolboy” I like that one, reminds me of my younger years… well also I can relate because it does express the true nature of your playground mentality. Such as I expect any PC Charlatan to Bully, whether from the Bully-Pulpit or here in this forum. Keep talking because the more you do, the more you further prove my point. This is the true nature of your Non-Christlike behavior, and all can see how PC pastors treat others who are in disagreement with them.

This is the essence of the cult known as Praise Chapel… You must agree with everything your pastors say and do or else. If not, there will be repercussions. They will threaten you with humiliation, public or otherwise. They threaten you with going to hell or receiving punishment from God if you dare to “badmouth” your pastors. They threaten you with going to hell or punishment from God if you leave the church they claim “God placed you in.” Then once you leave they do not leave you alone, as they constantly attempt their guilt-based, fear based manipulation tactics to get you back. Yes indeed it is a true dictatorship with no accountability whatsoever. Praise Chapel is a guilt based, shame based ministry. That’s how they keep you under their control. By making one feel guilty by not attending each and every event they have, they take all of your free time to maintain their control. You end up not having any time for anything but their church. Cult. They need to keep you guilt ridden and in fear. They equate serving your pastor the same as serving God. They have a heavy push on tithing and claim those who don’t pay up as “robbers of God.” But the true robbers are the PC establishment in and of itself. They equate everything they say as having received it from the Lord, which only the have the ability to do. They hint at (heavily) and some even come out and claim they are the “Specially anointed” ones, and only they have the ability to understand and interpret the bible. If you challenge them with scripture they are quick to point the finger and accuse, and shut you up as quickly as possible. They have no special skills (other than deception, manipulation, mind control techniques) and are NOT required to attend any Bible College. All they need is a thumbs up from another pastor whom they have cloned themselves as. Sure sounds like a cult to me. Oh and by the way, when dealing with Pharisees, I’ve found that using humbleness and humility does not work, because whey you do, they try to twist things around and deny the truth.

You claim that I made this personal? Really? You mentioned my name (Hawk) first son. You’re the one who said that I’m not open to understanding, did you not say that? Did you not say that I don’t want to discuss the issues? Did you not say that I need to deal with my bitterness? Hummm. Sounds like making it pretty personal to me. But I’ve come to expect it, since that’s how PC operates, they like to turn any challenges around and place the blame somewhere else but never ever on themselves. And you’re a pastor? Hoo-boy! Great that everyone can see what they’re in for once they enter a Praise Chapel. Yikes! Get ready for the (mental) manipulation ride of your life.

Two–way debate you say? Well not one of you defenders has come out to explain the legalized pyramid scheme and multi-level marketing you engage in. And you say that Naboth and I should remain over on the other site, so you don’t have to read any “PC” Bashing over here. Funny. Then why are you over there reading in the first place. No, sorry, I decline. I kinda like this site since it’s about cults and the topic of this forum happens to be… (Drum roll please) “IS PRAISE CHAPEL A CULT?” You’d like nothing more than to try and run me off. Why? What are you afraid of? Could it be the truth that is causing you so much turmoil? Sorry, as much as you’d like to silence me.. I won’t shut up. Neither am I afraid. It is a free country after all, and I do have a right to free speech! Oops! I forgot, free speech isn’t allowed at PC. Sorry.

Oh and by the way, I’m not the one having trouble following the rules here PC Pastor. Try not to get called on the carpet again aye? It makes you look bad. Also terrible PR for PC as well. I guess when you happen to be the one running a dictatorship, and making up your own rules, it’s probably very hard to comply with the rules set by others. Oh yes and one more thing.. Aren’t you the one who sent me a personal email with more of your rhetoric this morning? Now whom is hiding behind whom’s keyboard eh? Should have put you name on that one. Whoah, talk about personal attacks!

Almost forgot… “However I will no longer post here.” Then why are you still posing? Now who is the liar?

Anyway, for those who would like to discuss the issues.. Once again I would like to talk about the MONEY. Where it goes and how it’s spent. How much is sent to the Mother Church (percentage) and why is PC not a pyramid scheme? Multi-level Marketing?

What qualifications are required to become a PC Pastor?

And the most important issues are the things that make PC a cult. Those things I mentioned before are:

1) An emphasis on spiritual experiences.
2) An increased focus on the role of demons.
3) A large proportion of members with personal, emotional, and dependency needs.
4) A teaching emphasis on attitudinal sins (such as rebelliousness, lack of submission, pride, and self-centeredness.)
5) An unhealthy dependence on those in authority.
6) Few checks and balances.
7) Minimal leadership accountability.
8) A defensiveness that results in intolerance of member-critics.

Let’s hear about these issues shall we? If not, I can elaborate.

HAWK,
DONT KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO TELL YOU, THAT IM NOT A PASTOR, SHOW ME WHERE I SAID I WAS A PASTOR, ONCE AGAIN FORMING YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS. YOU KNOW WHAT I THINK I THINK YOU SUFFER FROM LMC ,YES THATS RIGHT AND YOU BEING YOU KNOWS WHAT THAT MEANS. I MYSELF HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE, MY SALVATION I THINK NOT. YET YOU STILL CONtINUE TO TWIST AND TURN WORDS AROUND.

"Anyway, so you claim, but I have lied about nothing"

OH YES YOU DID, OR ARE YOU JUST BLIND. WELL WHAT ELSE COULD WE EXPECT FROM A WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING.

"Oh and by the way, I’m not the one having trouble following the rules here PC Pastor"

AGAIN WHERE DID "I" CLAIM TO BE A PASTOR.

OH, AND BY THE WAY WHERE DOES IT SAY IN THE BIBLE YOU NEED TO GO TO BIBLE COLLEGE TO PREACH THE WORD. AHHHH NOWHERE, AS A MATTER OF FACT I THINK IT WAS JESUS WHO SAID "GO INTO THE NATIONS AND PREACH THE GOSPEL" NOT, WAIT GO TO THE COLLEGE OF JERUSALEM AND GET YOUR DEGREE AND THEN PREACH THE GOSPEL.

"So you think you’ve proven who the liar is? But yet you said, “However I will no longer post here.” Then why are you still posting? Now who is the liar?"

IS THAT ALL YOU GOT IS ONE LIE, AFTER AGAIN APOLOGIZING TO YOU, YOU BASH ME AGAIN FOR NO LEGITIMATE REASON, OF COURSE IM GOING TO DEFEND MYSELF. YOUR GOING TO COMPARE THAT TO THE 15-20 LIES THAT I POSTED ABOUT YOU. CMON, YES, I THINK WE REALLY KNOW THE TRUTH ,PHARISEE.
BY THE WAY I KNEW YOU COULDN'T RESIST IN RESPONDING,WHY? MAYBE CAUSE YOU WANT TO DEFEND YOURSELF. "KEYBOARD TALKER"

P.S. I PUT YOU ON BLAST AND CONFRONT YOU ABOUT ALL YOUR LIES AND YOU COME UP WITH 1, CMON, 1 ON ME, THAT’S IT!!!! NOT ONCE DID YOU TRULY DENY AND POINT OUT ANY OF YOUR LIES, BUT YOU CHOSE TO SIDE STEP ALL THE REAL ISSUES.

“Oh yes and one more thing.. Aren’t you the one who sent me a personal email with more of your rhetoric this morning? Now whom is hiding behind whom’s keyboard eh? Should have put you name on that one. Whoah, talk about personal attacks!”

I HAVE NEVER SENT YOU AN E-MAIL PERIOD. NO REASON TO, WHATEVER I HAVE TO SAY I’LL RIGHT HERE, SO I GUESS YOUR WRONG AGAIN THAT’S 2 NOW.
“You’re the one who said that I’m not open to understanding, did you not say that? Did you not say that I don’t want to discuss the issues? Did you not say that I need to deal with my bitterness? Hummm. Sounds like making it pretty personal to me.”

HERES #3 SHOW ME WHERE I SAID THESE THINGS, I CLEARLY DON’T REMEMBER SAYING ANY OF THESE THINGS. WHY? CAUSE I DIDN’T. AGAIN WITH YOUR LIES. KEEP THEM UP, CAUSE YOU SURELY WILL ENTRAP YOURSELF, WHEN YOU REALIZE YOU WERE WRONG AND NOT ONLY ABOUT THESE 3 THINGS, BUT OTHERS ALSO.

…………………….GULP……………. FEEL LIKE A DONKEY YET? BET YOU DO.


REGARDS.........JASON S

Don't elaborate please, I am not attempting to silence you but it's getting ridiculous on both sides. There is so much anger here that nothing is getting accomplished. Issues are not being discussed only accusations and name calling. I think we can all agree that it's not the right thing to do.

Hawk has his opinions as does believerof1. It's not against the law to have opinions. That is what they are on both sides just opinions.

I think it would be healthy for all side to stop the madness. This arguing only hurts both sides.

Again I am a PC Pastor I do not endorse or practice any of the tactics being spoke of. I am sorry to those who may have experienced them.

I am sorry to any that have experienced pain in our fellowship, as Naboth said there is no such thing as a perfect church.

Regardless of what any of us has said or thinks we are all part of the same body of Christ. Regardless of what church you attend. You do not have to go to church to be saved. Although you should attend a Bible believing Bible teaching church.

The second commandment that Christ left us was to love our neighbor as ourselves. Can this just stop?

Is it OK to agree to respectfully disagree?

Pastor Jason Townsell Praise Chapel La Mirada
(jason Stricker and Jason Townsell) are 2 differnt people from 2 different churches. Although I consider Jason a very close personal friend, who has a whole lot of passion and zeal alot like Peter of the Bible. He was quite passionate even though it got him in trouble sometimes.

Hawk you and Jason have gone back and forth quite a bit. I can say that I am sure your a good guy. I know Jason is, he is just defending what he knows and loves. If he had some of the experiences you did he might feel like you, but he hasn't.

In fact by the passion and zeal you two have diplayed here it seems as if you guys might make good friends.

I RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT NO MORE ARGUMENTATIVE OR ANTAGONISTIC REMARKS BE MADE HERE BY ANYONE HAVING ANYTHING TO DO WITH PRAISE CHAPEL. RESPECFULLY STATING YOUR CASE IS ONE THING BUT ACTING IN A MANNER THSAT DOES NOT DISPLAY CHRIST IS NOT WHAT THIS FELLOWSHIP REPRESENTS. THERE WILL BE TIMES WHEN PEOPLE WILL COME AGAINST YOU, THE MEASURE OF GOD IN YOUR LIFE IS HOW YOU REACT.