just exactly what Praise Chapel did you attend during those four years?

If you don't mind, I would rather not say "exactly" which Praise Chapel I was at, other than in the Los Angeles area. And just why would that be of importance to you anyway? As far as I am concerned they are all the same.

Let me just say this, the particular PC that I attended, the pastors have a very nasty reputation of trying to extract revenge upon former members and those who leave the church. One of the first things they do, is try and find out which new church that the person went to. Then they contact the pastor at the new church and paint a very bad picture of the individual who left. They say such things as the former member is a problem individual, has needs that only they understand and have been working with him about, and try to convince the pastor of the new church that the individual needs to come back. They also start a telephone campaign, continously calling the individual and persons the former member associates with in an effort to convice them to come back. It has been several months now since I left that church, but my phone continues to ring with their calls. Soon I am going to change my number.

I have a good friend and brother in Christ that left the same church over a year ago, and they are still calling him to come back. He intitally went to another Praise Chapel, and they used the same tactic on him that I just described above by contacting the pastor there, and badmouthing the individual. Also note that they badmouth former members from the pulpit, saying they are rebellious and have lost their salvation because they are no longer under the covering. Well, my salvation is dependant upon Christ alone, not by being a member of their church. I should also note that my friend was eventually told to leave the new Praise Chapel he went to because he was not paying his tithes, and thus was told he was not needed there.

If anyone ever goes to the headship at the mother church to complain about the pastors at the PC I attended, I have witnessed with my own eyes, them returning after having been turned away and told they are the problem, not the pastors. So there is no accountability, despite numerous complaints and members that I have seen complain to the mother church.

Praise Chapel may have broken away from and disassociated themselves from the CFM/Potters House origin, but they have in no way distanced themselves from the twisted doctrine or aborational cult-like techniques of the Fellowship. Rather they have established a parallel regime of their own, utilizing and mirroring the abusive techniques and doctrines of their original father Wayman Mitchell, not God the Father.

I have to say that it makes me so very sad to hear about the experience you had Hawk. I hope that you have been able to move passed it with God's help and have a healthy environment where you are attending church now.
I am a happy member of Praise Chapel. I have been there for about 3 years, but drifted in and out for the first year or so. In the beginning I was sick and had to have surgery, and was diagnosed with cancer. So I didn't attend regularly during that first year or so. Never was I approached about paying tithes, never was I not made to feel welcome unconditionally, never was I "love bombed", never have I ever heard my Pastor criticize, demean, or forbid contact with anyone from the pulpit or otherwise. I am not told what to do, or when to do it. If I were to ask to look at our books with a full account of where our money goes it would be made available to me, of that I am sure.
I started to pay tithes because I decided to start attending regularly and wanted to make Praise Chapel my home. Not because anyone told me I would go to hell if I did not. I was raised in church and my Mother, and Grandmother taught me that tithing is the right thing to do when you make a church your home.
When our Pastor is gone, the leaders in our church take over and the church keeps running. We are not in a dictatorship, and can question our Pastor if we feel that he is wrong. He has said, from the pulpit that if ever we doubt what he has taught we should definitely question it.
I know that there will be people in the Christian community that are just not right, but that is true in any fellowship. I know for certain that the things that I have read in this forum are not happening in my church, and it’s very hurtful for me to see them. What’s even more hurtful is that people will read them and think that any Praise Chapel they walk into is this way.
I will pray for healing for those that have been hurt by Pastors who are truly misguided. As far as being controlled… I was in a physically abusive marriage at one point in my life, and I pity anyone who ever tries to control me again.

my sentiments exactly "peace" what praise chapel do you attend if you dont mind me asking?

It is good to hear of a positive experience at PC such as the one Peace described, and it is my sincere hope that it remains that way. Initially, my experience there was positive, but only in the beginning. At one time I had been a very loyal and steadfast defender of my church. Over time however, I began to notice things that didn't seem right. I began to feel that something was wrong, something out of line but just couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was. Then I began to see many, many deviations from scripture and behavior patterns of the pastors and leadership that was unbiblical, non-Christlike, and abusive.

Don't get me wrong, pastors are human beings and make misatkes. We are all fallible and all fall short of the glory. I realize that. As Christians we need to be patient and forgiving. I believed that and practiced it as well. Perhaps that is why I remained as long as I did, while others I noticed had apparently picked up on the cult tendencies right away and quickly departed.

I paid my tithes during my entire time there, also the love offerings, the donations for this and for that, the pledges, etc., etc., etc... but got so tired of Malachi 3:8-11... week after week after week. All about how those of us who tithed were loyal and faithful servants, but the rest were robbing from God and unfaithful, and to quote the pastor, "Robbers cannot enter the kingdom of heaven." Or, "I'd hate to be in the shoes of those of you who don't tithe." I began to feel as if it were all about being shamed and paying money, not about the love of Christ. Near the end of my time there, the pastor would openly threaten members from the pulpit, "Those of you who don't tithe, I know who you are! God knows who you are! Would you like me to bring the tithing records up here for all to see? Would you like me to show everyone he who you are?"

I confronted the pastor with that, but had already made my mind up to leave. His opinion was that is was necessary to do that, to threaten people, "because the church needs the money." I told him that Christ never did stuff like that, but only the Pharisees. I told him that I thought he should appeal to the heart, not to threaten. He told me that he was sorry I felt that way.

If you disagreed with any of the pastors, they'd set out to humiliate you, point out any faults they may have preceived in you, or just made some up. How so? For some who disagreed or criticized, they would tell them.. "You know, I remember when your first came here you had a pretty bad drug problem, but we helped you with that," or, "you were in a pretty bad marriage a whild back, weren't you..." etc... I mean the list can go on and on. They would state on many, many, many occassions, "God will punish anyone who says bad things about their pastors." People were reluctant to speak out, and many were just plain afraid. After all, these were people that were trusted as leaders, spiritual and people of God, right? No they are not, they are nothing more than modern day Pharisees.

Whats up Jimmie,

Let me just say that it does sound like you had a bad experience at your Praise Chapel "Montebello", but that doesn't make it right to label all Praise Chapels like you are. I've seen other blogs @ different forums and you just continue to rip pastors and churches from our fellowship, sounds just like something Jesus would do. My suggestion to you is let it go "man" life is to short to have all this anger built up inside you. God still loves you brother.

I myself know the Pastor there and he is a good man and loves God very much, and just because you had difference of opinions doesn't make it right for you to keep acting like you are. Look i'm 34 with 4 kids and have been with my wife 18 years and know life can be hard sometimes. That doesn't give me the right to blame somebody or continue to put people and especially churches on "blast" for such subtle differences.

I serve @ a Praise Chapel as you know and have been to many others in my brief stint with this fellowship and i have never heard of anything like the things you describe. Tithing is biblical and it seems like to me you just don't WANT to give, because if you did you would not complain about it. Give willingly and not with a grudgingly heart and if you continue to worry about where it goes that WILL stop your growth in Christ Jesus. Look -give- because your supposed to and the rest will fall in line. God PROMISED you he would bless you so stand on that alone period.

Lastly i myself have had difference with people in our church, cmon your going to were all human, brother, nobodys perfect, but you can't let that stop YOU from serving God in that church. Anyways you know where you need to serve God and maybe it's not there, but it needs to be somewhere. Like our Pastor says "SUCK IT UP AND JUST SERVE GOD". Don't matter where just serve him and quit talking so much garbage and move on. I think i have been pretty fair with you even though you did talk smack about "my Pastor" and under other circumstances that would not be tolerated by myself, but my God says to let it go and just love you so i will.

God bless you brother hope you can move on and just "let it go"

believerof1:

Is it different?

Here are two things that would prove that objectively.

1. Does the church have a democratic process and elected elected board, which can hold the pastor accountable? What are its bylaws?

2. Is there meaningful financial transparency? That is, does the church publish an independently audited financial statement, which details all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out?

If the church doesn't have such meaningful accountability it may be little more than a dictatorship run by the pastor, much like a family business, though it may have tax-exempt status.

I am deeply offended by the comments made to brush a very brioad stroke over every Praise Chapel by the comments of Hawk and others. I also find it a bit suspicious that the writer will not identify what church he is speaking. I think that this is a malicious attempt to slander an organization being powerfully used of God.

These abuse tactis simply do not exist. In fact there are many check and balances to ensure that something of that nature the writer is speaking of does not happen.

I am also a bit concerned about the moderators assertion that churches should be run as corporartions. We must rememeber that we are the body of Christ not General Electric. More than 75% of our Pastors are working Pastors which means that for most churches the Pastors are taking a very limited allowance if any. Everyting is documented and available. Every member in my church has full access to all financial records. We are all accountable, but again we do not run a business.

Every church has a leadershiop team, and every pastor has a board of Pastors they are accoutnable to.

I resent the implications that we are a cult. We have nothing to do with CFM.

In fact I just preached at a few churches in the Philippine Islands that was a part of a group of 60 churches to leave Potter House. They were seeking restoration and healing after a great deal of abuse. We at PCCF are here to see the saints equipped for the work of the Lord, all saints.

It's sad when a group doing powerful things for God is persecuted by those who claim that they also want to see the gospel preached to all creation.

Moderator have you ever been to a Praise Chapel?

Pastor Jason

Preacherman:

I have not said that Praise Chapel is a "cult."

See [board.culteducation.com]

Please understand that the overwhelming majority of churches have democratically elected (by the general membership) government and the kind of financial transparency described above.

Typically churches are nonprofit tax-exempted corp. entities.

Most Praise chapels are probably so incorporated.

The question is do they have meaningful accountability through bylaws, democratically elected boards and audited financial statements.

It doesn't appear most Praise Chapels and pastors have meaningful accountability as described.

If you don't care that's your choice.

It is not necessary to attend a Praise Chapel to note or discuss these issues.

Well, well, what have we here? Is that a spirit of pride and elitism that I detect? I can tell that you’re just beaming in what you apparently perceive as your own cleverness. “What’s up Jimmie?” I don’t know son, you tell me what is up? You know nothing about me, my life or experiences, you know not who I am nor what I have been through. Yet you’re quick to judge and try and identify, classify and intimidate. I would expect nothing less from a modern day Pharisee such as yourself. Excellent post by the way, as it only serves to further prove my point. In fact, now I am fully convinced that all Praise Chapels are indeed cults, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Different? No, your ends somehow justify your means in the twisted world of cults. You claim to be different, yet your attitude and words have CFM written all over it. You’ve been indoctrinated quite well. By the way, I am impressed with the way you sidestepped what I wrote in my last posting. Anyway, let’s break it down, shall we?

“I've seen other blogs @ different forums and you just continue to rip pastors and churches from our fellowship, sounds just like something Jesus would do. My suggestion to you is let it go "man" life is to short to have all this anger built up inside you. God still loves you brother.”

Blogs? Different forums? Pastors and churches from your fellowship? Really? Which ones? Be specific. Must you resort to outright lies? I only post on one other message board. I give my input of the truth as it pertains to the subject and my experiences in the cult known as Praise Chapel. We also discuss scripture, speak freely, exchange ideas, experiences, give opinions and different points of view. Something you are not allowed to do at PC.

“Sounds like something Jesus would do?” I certainly agree with that, especially the way He spoke the truth about the Pharisees such as yourself.. just like He overturned the tables of the money changers who were using His Father’s House for their own profit. Tell me then, what percentage of your revenue is sent to the Mother Church in H.P., and explain why it is not a legalized version of a pyramid scheme?

I see that you choose to focus on my anger and therefore attempt to make me the target. Why not focus on the reason of my anger, which does happen to be a Godly anger. The result of being in the bondage of the Praise Chapel legalistic system, otherwise known as a cult. Oh Great and Wise Praise Chapel defender, tell me what brings you to this forum in the first place if not PC has previously been identified as being a cult by many others, many others?

“Let it go?” Why? Can’t handle the truth? You will not silence me. Yes, indeed God still loves me, even though I happen to be rebellious as you subtly attempt to classify me. Funny thing though, how the Lord has opened my eyes to your cult, and has now blessed me even greater than He has ever before.

“I myself know the Pastor there and he is a good man and loves God very much, and just because you had difference of opinions doesn't make it right for you to keep acting like you are.”

You mean the pastor who insists that parishioners refer to him as “their spiritual father, and his wife, their spiritual mother?”

Sorry but that is a whole lot more than a difference of opinion, it is outright blasphemy. I only have one father thank you very much, Who happens to be God the Father. Which it does say in His Holy Book that I shall call no man my father but He who is in heaven. That’s a lot more than a subtle difference.

Yes, apparently Jim Jones and David Koresh also loved God very much, but neither did that make them right.

You mentioned Montebello… Are you referring to the Praise Chapel over there that is known in the community as, “The Throw up church?” The one where leadership brings trash cans to the altar during altar call so the pastor can exorcise demons out of people and have them vomit into the trash cans? Strange how no matter how much I read my bible, nowhere can I find an instance where it calls to do that. Is this the same Praise Chapel where the community and members of traditional churches say that the pastor there, “sees a demon behind every bush?” Is this the same PC where the pastors wife foretells your future with her prophecies? The ones who refer to themselves as specially anointed? This of course is the same place where people are directed to babble gibberish and then told that they are speaking in tongues, right?

“Tithing is biblical and it seems like to me you just don't WANT to give, because if you did you would not complain about it. Give willingly and not with a grudgingly heart and if you continue to worry about where it goes that WILL stop your growth in Christ Jesus. Look -give- because your supposed to and the rest will fall in line. God PROMISED you he would bless you so stand on that alone period.”

Your apparent brainwashing shows your inability to test the spirits. Again you know nothing about me, accuser, and your thus your ignorance defies logic. According to my tithing records, my grand total comes to over $16,000.00 Let me tell you what I don’t want to give to… I do not want to give to help a pastor purchase a new Mercedes Benz, while members of the congregation are struggling and people are hurting. Neither do I care to pay for their vacations in Hawaii on their whim, stating that they must go there to be specially anointed. Or to bail their house out of foreclosure… You don’t know me and you don’t know what I went through over there, yet you assume a lot and certainly you do know how to judge and accuse. Though I consider the source, exactly where you learned how to do that was obviously at PC.

“Anyways you know where you need to serve God and maybe it's not there, but it needs to be somewhere.” First of all youngster, that is my business and is between myself and God. Why? Should I be in fear that I’m no longer under “The Covering?”

"SUCK IT UP AND JUST SERVE GOD". No, I decline on sucking up any more rhetoric from any cult. Instead I choose to stand on the word of God and on His truth.

“I think i have been pretty fair with you even though you did talk smack about "my Pastor" and under other circumstances that would not be tolerated by myself..” Oh, that is really Christ-like attitude isn’t it? Hold me back God.. hold me back… he’s pushing it! Let me at ‘em God… he talked bad about my pastor, let me at him.” Yeah, you’re real Christlike all right.

The only thing I continue to “rip” as you call it, is the methodology of a totalistic system. Specifically, an aberrational fringe church that has all the markings of a CULT. Look at the word again, cult. The same exact system that was created and propagated by Wayman Mitchell at CFM and where Praise Chapel began. The same exact system that continues today, apparently alive and well and fully backed by the mother church in Huntington Park.

No, I won’t move on. You will not silence me and I will not let it go.