R.B. Thieme Jr.
Date: May 02, 2006 07:25PM

I have read that it is rather hard trying to find a counsellor who knows about the effects of being in such groups and how the environment works on people.
That statement of Bobby's, when you think about it, is loaded with red flags.
Linda, I have sent you a pm.

R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: Wright_Again ()
Date: May 05, 2006 02:38PM

Linda Holley

Her husband asked for a divorce (of course he was in revisionism at the time - is there really such a word?)

I think the word you may be looking for is "reversionism" and that refers to a state where a believer is more or less unable to access God's grace. Sort of like the being spiritually dead. This is unlike apostacy where a person never really believed at all...they just faked it.

R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: Linda Holley ()
Date: May 05, 2006 09:07PM

Sorry, I spelled the word wrong. Actually I was only being facetious because I no longer believe I need to follow Theim's rules to access God's grace.

R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: Wright_Again ()
Date: May 06, 2006 12:41AM

Not to worry Linda, I just wanted to make sure that others understood the pervasive jargon that is used by this group. At least they are using a new word rather than using an old one and giving it a new definition.

I do believe that there is a spiritual war going on all around us, but that groups like Thieme's tapers are missing the boat since they define sin simply in terms of material wealth, sexual chastity etc They might consider that being a snooty jerk is not following the will of God.

From where I sit it looks like there are a great number of reversionists follow Thieme. :?

R.B. Thieme Jr.
Date: June 16, 2006 04:51AM

For those who wish to read further concerning the Thieme group history:-

There is an 800 page pdf (mainly text) document available which is a collection of former group members accounts and published articles, indexed according to coercive themes, with contents page.

Note that the document is 2 x 9meg files, which can be joined together in Acrobat (I will have to send it one part at a time) once received.

Send me a private message (you can send private messages, after 10 posts) with the email address you wish me to send it to.

R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: WarrenSchroeder ()
Date: June 22, 2006 07:22PM


Was looking for information on Thieme and ran across this forum. Can't post private under the rules yet, but just wanted to say hello.


R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: riosilk ()
Date: July 09, 2006 09:37AM

I am frankly stunned to see so many who feel that they were "controlled" by R. B. Thieme. If anything, he was more of the feeling that you could go somewhere else if you felt disagreement with his teaching. The only "control" that he imposed, was that of respecting him during his teaching. All that meant was that if you were there for the Word of God, then please shut up and pay attention. You had all the time in the world outside of class time to speak to anyone that you chose. He never claimed to be "the one and only", but was one who tried to be very specific in his accuracy, as he made it plain that whomever lived against the teachings of the Word were in for punishment, but that also, if he TAUGHT it wrong, he was in for DOUBLE punishment! He was indeed a hard-nosed old man...but he was meticulous in his method of giving you word for word translations, and altho he left me feeling chastised at times, I still realize that for all his mannerisms, he was also HUMAN; being human, he could be guilty of sin just as the rest of us. I learned MORE from Thieme than from anyone else out there, regardless their method of reaching people. Thieme was also not "in it for the money" as some claim, since now as always, any information and teaching aides are all FREE for the asking. They only ask that you order for yourself alone, and let anyone else's volition direct THEM to do their own ordering, so that supplies were not uselessly diminished. There were no rolls kept, no visitors information, donations were strictly volitional and no one was dogged to keep going, nor was anyone "shunned" who stopped listening or going to class. Various OTHER sects use the "shunning" device to SHAME people...but Thieme kept himself to teaching and left an individuals "shame" up to dealing between themselves and Christ. I am amazed by all the nay sayers here. Arrogance was something taught against as well...as one who said there should be something said about being "snooty". Well, Thieme's word for that was arrogance. That is something to be confessed to God as well. All confessions being between yourself and God. This congregation named as a CULT? Ridiculous! Anyone comes and goes as they please. They give or DON'T give as they please. If you follow the message as it is given in this church, then please do attend at your will. If NOT, then please don't take up space and waste everyone's time. That is NOT the attitude of a cult! I could go on for pages, but I am sure this is not the time or place...and I didn't realize I was going to do this anyway, I was actually ON MY WAY OUT to do something else, and I am not sure how I ended up here remarking on any of this.

R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: thiemite ()
Date: August 08, 2006 01:36AM

It is always interesting the arguments that folks offer up to try to demonstrate that Thiemite churches and Thieme don't try to "control" anyone. One should go to the sources, Thieme, et. al, and see for yourself. Here are some quotes (I'll be adding more as time permits):

Also, quoting from Thieme's publicly distributed notes on Pastor(s):
Spir Dynamics 1612(c)13 10/28/99; PPG 46, 218; Eph 109, 234, 647, 811, 840ff, 904
1. No believer can attain spiritual maturity and become an invisible hero or glorify God apart from postsalvation epistemological rehabilitation.

a. This means that no believer can read the Bible and attain spiritual maturity. The Bible is our textbook, but the gift of pastor(c)teacher is designed to communicate the specifics of the mystery doctrine that cause spiritual growth. Doctrine must be learned under authority, and that authority is vested in the spiritual gift of pastor(c)teacher.

b. No believer can read the Bible daily for himself and discover and learn the mystery doctrine for the Church Age, and understand the mechanics of the protocol plan of God. It must be taught through authority. Authority is always the key to teaching. "

Seems pretty clear to me, that telling people they can't read their Bibles and get anything out of it is "controlling" language. Jesus said the opposite of what Thieme said: "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." John 17:17

R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: riosilk ()
Date: August 08, 2006 03:08AM

First of all, thiemite, since I have listened to Thieme for close to 40 years, I understand his "jargon". I know full well what postsalvation epistemological rehabilitation means. Once you have been saved, then your duty is to take up an intense study of the Word, in order to understand how your life should change, and the mechanics for accomplishing that, along with learning what gifts from God come along with it all. Thieme does indeed knock you over with verbiage, but that is designed to make you THINK...something that most today don't care to indulge in. Indeed, enemies of the cross...ie, Satan and HIS crowd...[i:73b376bda9]prefer[/i:73b376bda9] that you DON'T think, therefore making it much easier to push his lies and distortions. If you can THINK in words of more than one syllable, then likely you can take up more complex thoughts than just dropping the bible open and pointing to a passage with your eyes closed and call it the "Mystery of God" when it lands on something totally out of context. That is why he stresses that doctrine must be learned under authority. When the Word was being taught, in OT as well as NT times, the guidelines were always that of obedience. How is Thieme's request different? It appears to me, that what you are complaining about, is that there is someone out there who has the qualifications to do what they say, once they say what they do. There are reasons why it is called "the straight and narrow", that is, the road to heaven. There are so many wacky ideas out there from people who are NOT under the mentorship of one who has any kind of education, and it leads to such things as the groups who go in for the snake dances and drinking poisons and the like. That is an extreme, in my opinion, but it all is an attempt to subvert the true Word of God, getting people totally distracted from a worship of God thru Christ, which is the basis of Christianity in the first place. It is not "doing" something weird, like kissing snakes and drinking drano, it is the habitual study of the Word, with seriousness, in order to realize what God truly meant, and not using it as some sort of mystical Ouija board for those who are not educated in any manner, but want the power and profile of someone who is "gifted" but in reality is a charlatan. They existed back in the day, and are in proliferation today, obviously. Everyone wants their own version of things to substantiate whatever agenda they are pushing...mostly their own self image. Thieme never called anyone out except for not paying attention or interrupting during his teaching. No one was ever taken to task for not being in class except in the issue of their own soul. In fact, I recall him asking people to be so kind as to LEAVE and not return, if learning doctrine was not their interest in being there. Controlling? Heh, well it appears to me, that since he is the ordained and duly authorized pastor of that church, he has the right to ask visitors to behave in a respectful manner. All you ever have to do to escape Thieme's "control" is just leave. You don't have to visit, or listen to him, ever again. Your choice. You don't have to contribute one penny, ever. You don't have to "do works" for the church. EVER. Controlling? Only to someone who is trying to malign probably one of the greatest teachers of doctrine in this age. They don't come often, and more often than not, are the nay sayers, and the magicians and prophets, who are mostly out for profit...pun intended. You can tune in to any show, on any channel, and hear things that are just ridiculous, because they are a slant of whatever that person's agenda is. Thieme puts things in a particular vocabulary in order to make a person use their OWN brains to think. Once you do that, you are in a position to judge the message, and to make a real attempt to "rightly divide the word of truth". However, if listening to someone who is a professor in the word of God insults you, then you are surely going to be disturbed not only with Thieme, but anyone who has actually studied the word with intention to distribute it in it's entirety and it's accuracy, since your complaint seems to be that the directive here is to study under someone who has that knowledge and that gift. The ouija board method is no gift. Any twit can do it. Any self appointed "psychic" can do mysteries, but only someone who is gifted with the endurance to go and study and make SURE they are giving accurate teaching is going to get the job done with any measure of continuity, and continuity is something that is necessary with the Word. It is not a one shot deal, it is a life long pursuit. I prefer someone who is dedicated to that life long pursuit, much more than someone who says a few words and then lets you know where the offering plate is, in case you missed it the first time around. As far as I know, Beracha church has not had any "fund raisers" in order to keep the church from going into the red. All materials for learing have been free. Offerings were and still are strictly volitional. TSK!! Such control methods. I can see how distasteful this must be to someone who chooses not to follow any particular method of protocol. Then it is simple 'mite. Just stop. There is always someone who is positive to fill that space you vacated.

R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by: thiemite ()
Date: August 08, 2006 10:23AM

RIO, read your Bible. Learn Greek and Hebrew if that is what it takes. Find a good, local, Bible believing church that will teach you HOW to read and study the Scriptures and teach you good Theology. Here are some links that may be helpful to you:

See folks, it is supposed to be "the message, not the man", in the Thiemite system, but when someone discusses the message, posts dirrect, verifiable quotes, etc, that demonstrate controlling language as in the no one can read their bibles and get anything out of it variety. The supposed rebuttal is nothing more than a long diatrible about how I must not understand, multiple ad hominem remarks, etc.

RIO, for the record, it is Berachah and Thieme isn't and never was a "Professor". You are the one making an issue out of the man, ad hominem, towards both Thieme and me.

Again, I'll be posting more verifiable quotes on the blog as time permits.

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