To the Forum:

I apologize without hesistation, my last post is incorrect. The Sodini blog stated "Integrity of G-d" not "Christian integrity". I intended to deceive no one.

I am on my Blackberry and on the road. My searches are not quite as efficient as my computer. If someone would care to go to [www.mustseethisone.com] and download "integrity of G-d" and do a keyword search for "focus" and "absorb", it might help to move the discussion down the line.

However, it is highly probable though I have no facts but Sodini was probably a Thieme booklet reader and taper. If so Sodini probably did read "Christian Integrity" and/or had probably heard Thieme say the exact thing or similar on tape.


Truthtesty



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2009 10:44AM by Truthtesty.

Thanks for the correction, Testy.

Sistersoap

To the Forum:

I think the word search of "integrity of G-d" compared to Sodini diary is a step in moving this conversation forward.

Also for those who would like to research and contribute actual evidence to this forum. I think there are a removal of FOIA restrictions on Thieme's military record. More information is probably available, with Thieme's status.


Truthtesty

Sistersoap,

Survival of the fittest and natural selection. Innate in the animal kingdom. Subjegate or Adapt. Chimpanzees can be a very highly territorial and violent species raiding rival clans while the Bonobo Monkey is a peaceful species that actually resolves things through sex and governed by the female in animal studies of animals. Some insects consume their prey after copulation. Some animals mate for life face to face like Albino Bengal Tigers. People who try to rationalize behavior on animal behavior or find characteristics in animal behavior that is similar to ours is what it is. A stretch....I can tell you I like my dog more than a lot of people. My dog is not going to rob from me or betray me. An agenda for human inquiry or rationalization can hone in on many things. Darwinism that we know of was the first attempt at studying the innate features of carbon based life forms, behavioral studies, adaptation and their origin. And his theories have evolved as he is just the first to take a chisel at it. Several of his theories discounted. Is his study an identification of innate characteristics that humans have in comparison to animals or characteristics animals have according to humans? As his mind was the origin and he had a very high opinion of some humans and a very low opinion of some humans. Is it a belief? For some it is fact and their beliefs are seperate. For some it is belief and for others it is evolving scientific inquiry and Darwin get's a paragraph before moving into Molecular and Cellular Biology and Botany.

I never read anything about Darwin regarding human races being supreme and would have brushed it aside. Though I know of others who probably got that from him or they rationalized their pre-existing racism based on something of a different origin. But there is a lot more to Science and Evolution than Darwin. I like watching a tadpole evolve into a frog in that stage where they can swim and have frog legs but as soon as they can hop. Yuck. Or a catapillar into a butterfly. Or, how evolving technologies like nanotechnolgy or cloning certain cells based on the study of cell structure and its evolvement in other organisms, and then compared to ours in the body, can cure disease.

Is Lucy who was named by the the paleotologist's or fossil diggers because of the location in Ethiopia, Africa, where like in the Old Testament, lions roamed, and perhaps shift in the earth, or not, Eve? And perhaps Adam is somewhere near her? Or they just old fossils of humans?

Humans have the capacity to do much worse things than animals and at times if they were half as peaceful as a chimpanzee or as carefree as dolphins.....Oh how nice it would be if I could say without pause our origin is something that does not have the faculty to do so much regarding innovation and good including believing in God's Infinite Glory and Jesus Christ Manifest on Earth, ordained us as sovereign over the animal kingdom for their care and their care for us....our needs. And yet we can walk into a crowded room of innocent people and mow them down, without it being about food or territory or it be about food, territory or a rival clan? I wish it was Darwinism that was the reason 911 and The Crusades happened...Darwin is a lot easier to deal with than Wahabi and Radical Islam, the Palestinian Israeli Conflict, and Radical Christianity Pillage and Plunder...It's long and complicated with no straight up father of racism.

Martin Luther - Raving Anti-Semetic starting the big snow ball that had already been in the works for Hitler's Germany and Germans...Germany at that time. It did not spring up overnight because of Darwinism...Stalin and Communism turned its finger on its own people 150,000,000 million because of No God or because Communism was a religion in essence...a Utopia everyone could reach and why on their own and not another race? There are many answers to that question. Scapegoats are found when things are going bad like the Witch Trials in Early Modern Europe. 150,000 women killed because of Darwinism? Many racist attitudes that come from all walks of Churches and Groups and Humans who absolutely do not support Evolution...They become racist at those who believe in it.

We can discuss origins all day long as racism was in practice long before Darwin or Evolution came on the scene.

So what is your point?

I do not think all people who are racist are thinking about the origin. Most are subjegating and racist because of their conceptual framework in relation to their construct of peers, environment, and attitudes that develop from where and what? Many elements. Things would be solved if we could just point to an origin and then go....There you have it. Great. Darwin is the father of all racism. His favored race was the monkey is what flashes through most people's head when they think about Darwin. Cool. That solves it. So why are we fighting about favored human races?

Because we all have biases and are imperfect, suseptable to racism even if we shun Evolution. I get cranky with Abdullah at the gas station sometimes and I let him know it. Selamah Allekeim and Bes Me La! if you do not hurry up and quit haggling with me or try to upsale one more thing, because this is not the medina or bazzar this is the US and we have a fixed economy. I just want a pack of gum! Done. And he usually grins. I do speak moderate Spanish but we have to have standards or this is going to be the Tower of Babel so even though I speak more Spanish than most...I do not as a habit. I do not support and never supported bi-lingual education and have been called a racist. No...I am not proud of my race and I want yours to not be stumped by not knowing our Mother tongue and simply do yard work. I know Amigo Diplomacy got everyone excited but Vicente Fox was a jerk and at least this new Premier is making an effort regarding Drug Cartels. AND, I don't want to have to learn anymore languages. I am a racist against Aggies though I am working on it. Darwin has nothing to do with any of it. Language, Communication, Environment, and Tunnel Vision Aggies who make the worst Engineers but whatever...


I cannot recall the name of the young gay man who was literally crucified on a fence post because the people who did it were Darwinists or even thinking of Darwin? They hated gays. Two years ago a boy was sodomized with an object and maliciously raped in the backyard of his home here in Houston by a gang....Maybe he had on the wrong type of shoes but I believe he stared at a rival clans girlfriend. They were filled with something but not the works of Darwin. A similar occurance happened in a small town when a different big city new kid in town moved to a small town by members of a football team who used a coke bottle...Survival of the fittest was not an issue with these jocks as they were the most favored. And since they had a State winning team were not even taken off the team. Why did they do it? Because they did not believe they were from Adam and Eve? I can tell for a fact they did believe they were from Adam and Eve and were Christians. I do not think they read a Science book and went... Hmmmm......I feel this way because of Darwin's study in evolution, natural selection, adaptation, survival of the fittest, and favored race. Or even heard of Darwin growing up in the Bible belt.


I wish it were that simple Sistersoap to point to an Origin. Unfortunately, before Darwin hate and racism was in practice.

And the children in schools in America score way behind globally with respect to Science, Math, and Technology so the Alpha Girls who hate the Betas because they are popular and "That's hot!" Paris Hilton Glam Girls, I wish were more like the Gammas, not interested like the Betas in being part of the group but achievement and read a few more Science and Technology books and The Bible. Our kids are spoiled, fat, narrow, degenerates in comparison to travels outside the US and they have had plenty of God formally under eight years of W and caustic examples of Christianity. What they are absorbed in is Narcissism not texts about Darwin or anything much regarding texts but texting...yes. It is interesting to see that the ones who showcase humanity and end up showing a strong belief in God and faith in Christ are not the little narcissists but the explorers who's faith is not dogmatic or switches like situational ethics because "that is what I am told"...They become strong believers. Because of their quest to know, are challanged, and not censored. Their guided and not pushed. Their convictions are true and not based on compulsion. Christianity is not compulsion. That is doctrine. We give our youth little credit. And, the ones that get told "It's this way! Darwin and Evolution is the origin of racism! Bad!" tend to do what kids do...Join a Punk Rock offshoot of some Arian Nation band to really test their parents and rationalize that their is a name to associate with the origin of racism...Cool an origin...That's his name...Darwin. So rationalize their behavior, angst or hate or self-loathing or lack of self esteem. Adolecent angst is Darwin? If they did not have someone handing them an origin or putting words in their mouth...We could listen and hear them before things like Columbine. As I doubt many would or could pin point an origin to what their feeling but need to talk. "What would you tell those kids if you could tell them anything if you had a chance?"

I wouldn't tell them anything. I would listen for a long while. And then apply the tourniquet. I am sneaky though...I would never tell them what I was doing was applying Christian love and discipline as "Ughhh...." eyes role, "Not that!!!" When it comes to "Not that!!!" and typical rejection or exploration of something of their OWN. Two and Teenagers... I guess I am like Mr. Meagi was with the Karate Kid. You might not get it now but it will zing your later. I drop bread crumbs.

Darwin is not the father of racism.

Was Darwin involved in Sodini? Or, the origin innate and inherited cell structure of the Sin of Adam that evolved over time passed down through the ages to continue as a race that would always overcome?

Like you said, the human race makes racism.

'thereporter'

Sistersoap:

I was actually trying to bring things back into topic regarding R.B. Theime and Destructive Churches mentioning the Rabbi fund. And Truthtesty and you brought up G-d. Or, -od first. I simply stepped in to inform, as like I stated if the alleged slur was made, I was offended, not to chastise as I like free debate and discussions. The Moderator will step in based on what he Moderates using discretion regarding my posts or answers to posts. And when the Moderator does, I have no issues with that and will comply.

'the reporter'

To The Forum/Moderator:

You may review all my posts as they by and large are about Gnosticism/Theime/The Integrity of God, Cult Like Behavior/His Method, Observations of followers, Observations of Thieme/tapes/reading his books, experience, and Sodini connections and questions of influence regarding the aforementioned. Only when I have been asked questions, I answer them. And attempt a re-direct like the last correspondence with Sistersoap or intervene regarding a question of offensive slur as perhaps not an understanding to continue.

It is crystal clear even in repetition or clarification what I am addressing and that is what this forum sub-heading is, A Destructive Church.

Sistersoap I have taken your insinuations, in-directs, perhaps displacement, and nickname or name calling brush-offs with respect to the VERY ISSUES we are discussing now and in part I raised. Sometimes a fresh perspective revives and connects with older discussions and provides focus or adds something. I know exactly who I am and did not just wander in as a crossed-eyed stray.b]

This last comment however, "Thieme followers go absolutely everywhere over the spiritual apectrum when they exit. If one comes here testifying of his atheism after Thieme, are you saying we can't comment on that because it is off topic?" is over the line.

You have made a lot of assumptions regarding me and a huge one "Theime follower" and if you are insinuating "Athiest" disguised as a hypo "If one comes..." Sister, you should reread my posts.

Your painting of people who come to this forum with substantive arguments, analysis, evidence, experience, or documentation is either marginalizing them or "all over the place" victims who probably couldn't tie their shoe laces, is pedestrian and transparent.

The Moderator has the capacity to distinguish a comment made in context of a discussion and one re-quoted and taken out of context.

Moderator

I am not going to go through and re-quote all the in-directs and slides to me or others in this forum I already notice, most recently, to Orange, that neither give a refutation or a support. Just a thanks for sharing and marginalizing through innuendo regarding Sistersoap. This needs to be diffused. Thank you.

'the reporter'

********************************************************************************************

Orange and Truthtesty,


Replying to Truthtesty's request regarding where I drew parallels to Theime and Gnosticism in the NASB version, I need to correct number 2 as I left something out in the second posting of this diatribe.

And, Truthtesty send me your commentary on the scriptures I sight from 1 John because I don't have your version. I like to see what the transmission is cherry picking from...I used the NIV before. And, observing people at Berachah they used all types of versions. Theime III would quote from the King James at times.

2. Salvation is the escape from the body ("Overcoming Sin Nature of our physical bodies" as the Colonel harped constantly and even wrote a hymn about it)

Correction:

2. Salvation is the escape from the body achieved by not by faith in Christ but by special knowledge (the Greek word for "knowlege" gnosis, hence Gnosticism).

It is number 2 in my original post the reason I say "EPINOSIS sound familiar Theimeites!?"

Like I said, this heresy as I am not a Theologian and or familiar with all Cult or heretical breaking offs it is not a direct mirror to Theime's but later more intricately developed systems were developed in second and third centuries...and perhaps beyond is my question, assertion, and found Theime's system to be close enough for me as heresy. Though I did not need to find this to know this was a Destructive Church with some major issues. But, here's the abbreviated parallels.

1. The Colonel's pseudoscience was a parallel because of his dualistic belief of total separation from God as humans were spiritually dead with the evil inherited sin nature of Adam. His premise in The Integrity of God and throughout all teaching and tapes. "We must recognize that the sin nature is not endemic to the soul but resides instead in the cell structure of the human body." - Integrity of God?

2. Salvation an escape from the body, the spiritually dead and evil inherited sin nature body, through Salvation from Christ and "epinosis" of doctrine. - Integrity of God?

3. Christ's true humanity was denied in two ways at this time that does not apply to Theime's system. Though, Christ's true humanity as has been argued and analyzed by myself, and many others in this forum, as something Theime failed to focus on at large. Faith in Christ is bigger than Salvation through Christ.

4. Since the body was considered evil, spiritually dead matter and treated harshly "ascetic". I drew parallels to his method, framework, harsh, no emotion, and militaristic focus. Even though starting with his premise he resolved this dualism and seperation from God through Salvation in Christ, he continued as if the body was still spiritually dead matter primarily focusing on "epinosis" of doctrine.

5. Pardoxically, this dualism also led to licentiousness and breaking of God's law and no moral consequence. The parallel I draw is that his premise of dualism, total seperation of God from the spiritually dead with the inherited sin nature of Adam in our cell structure, necessitated Salvation from Christ as a bridge to Perfection, and therefore by Grace alone we were saved. Righteousness or works were moot as spiritually dead and seperated anyways. The Colonel had a habit of associating righteousness and good plus post-salvation righteousness and good, or embodying the Bible's message especially Christ's message as:

"Perhaps you are beginning to see that what truly impresses God and what you may have assumed impresses Him are two different things. Imperfect, sinful man has nothing to offer God that is worthy of His love. Even after salvation, we cannot earn divine approbation or blessing. The only things we have that please God are what God Himself has given us, first at the moment of salvation and subsequently through the filling of the Spirit and intake of doctrine." - Integrity of God?

My commentary interlude:

EPINOSIS OF DOCTRINE ANYONE??? God was not pleased whatsoever with what he created because he made a huge mistake. So why do anything regarding the laws of God, righteousness, good, or Christ-like because what impresses God is God as He is Perfect Righteousness. And He is not even impressed with Himself really at this point. Because even after God Man comes down to Earth and does all those good and Perfect Righteousness acts, as the vanguard of humility, good, forgiveness, and tolerance...... The Colonel's definition of Perfect Righteousness is not Perfect Righteousness.

God is only pleased with God, Not pleased with His creation, AND YET not pleased with Himself, and therefore His sole purpose is to die.

He's got God taking a nose dive off a skyscraper based on his formula which Necessitates this... Rather, than Salvation based on what is in the scriptures as a gift, sacrifice, to save mankind. And, he has humans swallowing all the pills in their medicine cabinet, self-destruction, or licentiousness, a bonafide license to really do some bad stuff.

Sooner or later you must learn two things, so you might as well be prepared for the shock. You have to learn first of all, that God is not impressed with you. He is not pleased with your self-righteousness, your personality, your talent, all the human good deeds you perform. He is not excited even a little about what you were, are, or plan to become. And that is the second thing: Not only is He unimpressed with you now, but He will never be impressed with you. It is an absolute impossibility for you to make any kind of positive impression on God. You and I have no ability to attract His love. We lack the talent, brains, the personality, and especially the righteousness; not even our very best can make the grade. - Integrity of God?

Made in God's image, God did not like His image. This is probably why Theimeite's have issues with emulating Christ's humanity or feeling God's love. Though not perfect our human talents, personality, plan, potential...Our human make-up is of no consequence to our Creator.

The Colonel's dogma goes on and I understand the complexities of it....unfortunately. After, the three prong God, Perfect Righteousness (which does not include a lot of righteous behavior), Justice as the Point of Contact for Humans, and Love the Motivation....This arrangement is based on his premise.

thereporter

Trusthtesty,

This link doesn't provide a link on my system for a download just all the chapters. But I will find a work around.

'the reporter'

TO THE REPORTER:

Re your evolution remarks. I found a number of errors in the contents of your long post re evolution, but because that is not Thieme related I don't think I can offer further discussion on them. Of course, Thieme never taught that evolution was compatible with the Bible that I know of so perhaps it is a moot point for this thread.

Regarding the "atheism" retort, I WAS NOT ACCUSING YOU OR ANYONE ELSE HERE of being an atheist. I simply pulled that one possiblility out of the mix of people I know of who left Thieme and ended up in a wide variety of religious and non religiouos beliefs because of their experience with Thieme's teachings. I also was not making atheism a "bad" thing, though I disagree with its claims. So I did not attack you or anyone else here by that post. If you took offense, I surely don't see why. If you would like to correct my claims here, send me a PM if you like since it may be deemed off topic by the MOD.

Finally, reporter, sometimes I find your prose difficult to follow so there are times when I don't respond to your posts or even finish reading them all. I am sure the fault is entirely mine. This isn't an attack on your writing skills it is just a statement of a problem I have in understanding some of what you write.

Sistersoap

Quote
thereporter
Trusthtesty,

This link doesn't provide a link on my system for a download just all the chapters. But I will find a work around.

'the reporter'

To thereporter did you find a work-around?

"The integrity of G-d" is listed ont this page [www.mustseethisone.com]

What operating system and what error are you getting? You say you are seeing chapters?


Truthtesty

To thereporter:

We are kinda bouncing between 1 John 2:27 and Sodini. I can handle it(on my Obama Blackberry). Lol

Quote
thereporter
And, Truthtesty send me your commentary on the scriptures I sight from 1 John because I don't have your version. I like to see what the transmission is cherry picking from...I used the NIV before. And, observing people at Berachah they used all types of versions. Theime III would quote from the King James at times.

Truthtesty: Below is my view that I posted before. I am not "pulling" from commentaries. I looked at KJV YLT and the greek as explained by Vines and also Crosswalk.com. I really like www.laparola.com/greco

Well the post below is my view and I did not reference any commentaries.

Does this answer your question?

Quote
Truthtesty
thereporter: "John?s response was that what the readers were taught under the Spirit?s ministry through the apostles not only was adequate but was the only reliable truth. teaches you. The teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit (what is commonly called illumination) does not involve revelation of new truth or the explanation of all difficult passages of Scripture to our satisfaction. (that be arrogance) "

Truthtesty: I don't have an NASB. It would be helpful if you seperate and clarify your comments and the NASB's(NASB was highly recommended by Thieme by the way.)

I disagree with this commentary, because 1 John 2:27 says 3 times "didasko" "teach" and it is specifically because of the teaching annointing that you know(unction)and not a "certain one". It is the annointing chrisma( [www.antioch.com.sg] ) which teaches, not man. IT IS NOT NECESSARY to be taught by man(a certain one", that is CLEARLY the dynamic at work. There is no mentiong of a need for a corrupt human teacher at all, Christian or gnostic, in 1 John 2:27. It simply says the annointing teaches you all things. It does not restrict all things to what has already been (limitedly revealed in comparison to infinite knowledge of -od or even limited by what was differently revealed in different Christian communities at the time) revealed by -od. And what of the Corinthians did they already know everything as the Christians who heard the gospel of John? And vice versa? What of what the Bereans and other Christian communities? They could not email each other back then. But there was more to learn than what they had revealed to them.

chrisma the corresponding noun to chrio, signifies "an unguent, or an anointing." It was prepared from oil and aromatic herbs. It is used only metaphorically in the NT; by metonymy, of the Holy Spirit, 1_John_2:20,27, twice.

[www.antioch.com.sg]

To say the anointing with Holy Spirit is insufficient(seems to be greiving the Spirit to me) and to say it is required that a human teacher teach you is the same as saying a corrupt human "high priest" is necessary for learning. Wrong. Jesus is the only High Priest NECESSARY for Christians.

Nave's Topical Bible
...
OF SAINTS
...
Taught by God - Isaiah_54:13 ; 1_John_2:27

[www.antioch.com.sg]

1 John 2:27 You have no need that a "certain one" teach you.

[www.biblestudytools.com]

Christian human teachers have there place in the church community, but they are NOT NECESSARY for the HOLY SPIRIT to teach the Christian "all things".

Take note 1 john 2:20 says because of the anointing you KNOW all things. NOT because everything has already been written down(which everything had not yet been written down), and now you have human teachers to teach so you can learn all things NO it says YOU ALREADY KNOW specifically because of the annointing with the Holy Spirit.


[www.biblestudytools.com]

As some appear to be insinuating, If John had meant that all revelation was completed and corrupt humans teachers can now act as your high priest instead of Jesus as your high priest, to teach you or that corrupt human teachers had already taught you, then why was 2nd John and 3rd John written? That would be after 1 John 2:27. If all revelation had been already been revealed and was ready for teachers to teach it? If it had all not been revealed how could they know "all things". Lol

Also, Why does John refer to the anointing/unction teaching you, instead of the written revelation for teachers to teach you? Could it be the Christian knows all things spiritual through the Spirit of the Holy Spirit? It was because of the anointing they already knew, not that even all revelation was even complete then.

To limit -od is arrogant on its face and roots.

Truthtesty

Also Dr. L. S. Chafer spoke of "spiritual death". However, Thieme took "spiritual death" from Chafer and distorted it. You might want to search the research I did (and I posted it on this website). I'd search keywords "spiritual death" and "Chafer" on this website.


Truthtesty