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From "THE BIBLICAL USE OF THE TERM 'BLOOD" by Leon Morris

...The remaining passages seem to point to sacrificial blood. Six times there is reference to covenant blood, which calls for no comment to show the sacrificial reference; in Rom. 3:25 God is said to have set forth Christ as hilasterion ... en to autou haimati , where the word hilasterion points us to the sacrifices. In Heb. 9 the whole context with its mention of the blood of sacrificial victims shows that verses 12 and 14 carry a reference to the sacrificial system when they speak of the blood of Christ, and the same is true of 10:19. The unusual phrase 'blood of sprinkling' (Heb. 12:24) points to a sacrificial action, and the context shows that in Heb. 13:12 the sin offering is in mind. The sprinkling of the blood in 1 Pet. 1:2 again indicates a sacrificial action, while the blood 'as of a lamb without blemish and without spot' (1 Pet. 1:19) is clearly sacrificial blood, and the same is probably true of 'the blood of the Lamb' in Rev. 7:14, 12:11. Finally, the thought of cleansing associated with the blood in 1 John 17 seems to be an allusion to sacrifice.

1 Pet. 1:19 (KJV) But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Leon Morris clearly states above: The sprinkling of the blood in 1 Pet. 1:2 again indicates a sacrificial action, while the blood 'as of a lamb without blemish and without spot' (1 Pet. 1:19) is clearly sacrificial blood,

(In Rom 3:25 I used transliterated "hilasterion dia (tes) pisteos en to autou haimati" because the Greek font does not appear to work on Rick Ross, Morris uses the actual Greek and associated fonts.)

Differentiated context.

As Barr said ""illegitimate totality transfer," i.e. the whole range of meanings that a word could have in its various semantic contexts is thought to be present in each individual case. According to Barr, it is much more appropriate to look for theology not in a word but in a sentence or combination of words, a principle that most subsequent scholarly efforts to produce a "theological dictionary" have tried to follow.



Truthtesty

ps quote: you have to remember that it's the sins of mankind that has to be atoned for so why would God come as an Angel of Jehovah. That would not make sence. The God man not the God angel had to pay for the sins of man since Adam and the Woman sinned. The second Adam a perfect man had to be judged. His humanity had to be judged. The sins of mankind had to be judged on a perfect man.

Much of what you say has no logical connection, you just state it "as so" without proof (like Thieme). You have to remember Jesus' humanity being judged was not "spiritual death only". You and Thieme don't make sense.


Truthtesty

ps qoute: <sup>Why I think people call his ministry a cult is because of the knowledge and doctrines and accuracy gathered from the original languages and the thorough evaluation by means of ICE that others in the past have never gathered themselves or did not research to gather or never thought about investigating what was taught previously to them and thereby just accepting what was the norm of doctrine taught them for centuries without the benefit of ICE. These different doctrinal views are challenged by those who hold to the more traditional doctrine and do not agree with the current evaluation from ICE by applying the word "cult" to those who teach and accept those views.

I= isagogics helped bridge the gap by teaching a little more detail about the customs and culture of the people and of the periods of times the Bible and passage was written in. It takes us back into history and gives us a more vivid realization of what others experienced when they had learned and applied Bible doctrine. The Bible has to be taught with those things in consideration to acquire a more accurate understanding.

C= categories really helps with the dissolving the confusion that exist with so many Ministers teaching so many different doctrines and who have so many different views that it would be hard pressed to take a dogmatic stand on any doctrine or truth without the complete evaluation of any subject. The apostles were not confused but they spoke, thought and wrote in the original languages of scripture. Most of us today do not have that luxury of knowing the Koine Greek or the other original languages of the Bible, but if Pastors devote themselves to acquiring those tools the unity of the faith would be compressed whereby narrowing down with documentation and text what is accurate and what is false would be acquired by all believers.

E= Exegesis is the use of the original languages of scripture to study learn and teach to evaluate the doctrines of the Bible. The evaluation based on the grammar, syntax, ethamology of words and many other theological research systems are used to bring forth the Word of Truth accurately. This is the main job of a Pastor-Teacher. For this is a main key and foundation of any doctrine taught especially the mysteries of Christ.</sup>

Truthtesty:

You and Thieme are a sick psycotic joke. LITERALLY. People actually become Schizophrenic listening to Thieme.

You, like Thieme (your master), cannot see the forrest for the trees.

Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer was not a 1st Century Doctor of Theology. Dr. Chafer was the founder of Dallas Theological Seminary. Dr. Wall was not a 1st century Doctor of Theology. Dr. Wall worked with Thieme in downtown Houston before Sage, for years. I think someone said something about someone in Dr. Wall's family was in the Air Force with Thieme. Dr. Wall went to Dallas Theological Seminary after thieme did. Dr. Wall completed not only a Masters degree, but also a Doctorate. Thieme only completed a Masters.


Dr. Wall's doctoral dissertation: [www.texaswalls.org]

Study Methodology
At the core of Thieme's doctrinal weaknesses and errors is a faulty methodology for Bible study. Although certain elements in his approach are commendable, others are theologically dangerous. Using the acronym ICE, Thieme uses and encourages the use of three major parts of Bible study: "isagogics," "categories," and "exegesis."...
His equating of knowledge with GAP obviously stretches the meaning of the proverb in question beyond its normal meaning. To avoid the abuse of interpretation by systematics (or categories) an appreciation for the contributions of the theologians and interpreters of the past is needed, and should be communicated to the hearers of the teaching. Also, systematic theology should depend largely upon "biblical theology;" that is, the study of the doctrines of Scripture according to the categories, emphases, terminology, context and place in the development of theology of the particular biblical writer. For example, Thieme quickly thrusts I John 1:9 into his category of "rebound," but John's categories are "walking in the light" and "telling the truth in personal fellowship relationships." The absence of sound biblical theology, we shall see in a later chapter, has produced a mechanical, in-and-out, view of fellowship and spirituality, rather than John's concept of continual personal relationships. Unless checked, Thieme's methodology will likely produce more and more doctrinal error in the future. Thieme would be wise, therefore, to develop a relationship with some respected theologians who could discuss with him any new theological teaching he develops and could direct his attention toward insights from biblical theology and historical theology.

People are better off just purchasing or buying Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer's 8 volume Systematic Theology. Having read most of Chafer I can clearly see that Thieme began by copying much of Dr. Chafer, but twisted and perverted Chafer's teachings, for Thieme's extremist views.


Truthtesty

ps quote: Pastors will have to give an account. Greek= APODIDOMI is the root word for APODUSONTES which is in the Nomnative. plural Future active participle, Meaning to render a due, to give an answer to a claim or expectation, and with it's grammtical construction meaning now and in the future at the judgement seat of Christ.

Logon is the accusative sing of Lego which means to say, to speak, make an address or speech, to tell, declare or narrate or affirm. Hebrews 13:17

So TT with the Exegesis being taught to you maybe you can learn new and important things also.

New is not the problem. Thieme makes mistakes and I let the public know. PERIOD. If you don't like it? Oh well. The KJV is very clear on Heb 13:7.

The sheep need to watch out for false teachers regardless of how much Greek a false teacher exegetes.

Dr. Wall: [www.texaswalls.org]
Basic view. First, he has an unbalanced view of spiritual authority. Pastoral or elder leadership authority extends to the overseeing of the operation of church ministries, the maintenance of sound teaching in the local church and the protection of the believers' souls from false doctrine (I Pet. 5:2; Acts 20:28, 29; Heb. 13:17). It clearly involves leadership by example, not by lording over or "bullying" the flock (I Pet. 4:3; Heb. 13:7). Thieme has added to these clear biblical directions. He claims that he must be the final source of doctrine for all in his flock, and that the individual believer cannot study Scripture for himself. Not only does the Scripture not teach such a view of doctrinal learning, but it teaches the opposite. Spiritual growth, Paul says in Ephesians 4, involves two major ingredients that are contrary to the Thiemite doctrine: first, the gift of pastor-teacher is an equipping gift (verse 12, katartismon) designed to prepare all believers (the saints) for doing the job of ministering and edifying; second, maturing takes place as all the members of the body minister the truth of God to one another in love (verses 15, 16), not just one select, gifted person.
Second, he confuses faith in biblical truth with a faith in a particular teacher (i.e. one's right pastor). At no time does Scripture exhort the believer to single out one particular teacher as his final doctrinal authority. On the contrary, there is precedence for diversity of teachers. At Antioch the thriving, missionary church was ministered to by five prophets and teachers (Acts 13: 1). Ephesus had both the personal and epistolary ministries of both Paul and John, and also had the ministry of Apollos and of the elders of Ephesus (Acts 18:24-28; 20:17-35). In 3 John, the apostle condemns Diotrophes for attempting to lord it over the flock, forcing division between his followers and other teachers in the body of Christ.
Thieme's right pastor doctrine could very well be called the "Diotrophes doctrine."


Truthtesty

ps quote: Christ died spiritually before he died physically. His spiritual death occurred when he screamed Eloi Eloi Lama Sabachthani My God My God why have you forsaken me.
Jesus Christ made it clear that God the Father with whom he had an unbroken relationship had to break that relationship for the 3 hours that Christ bore our sins on the cross. Since it is immposible for diety to die God the Son had to become a man in order to pay the penalty of sin, to take our place.

Truthtesty:

It wasn't spiritual death only, otherwise the theophany of the angel of the Angel of Jehovah could have died spiritually for us. God the son had to beome Flesh and Blood, to pay the penalty of sin, to take our place. God has not fully revealed the entire process of the physical and spiritual sufferings of Jesus. You don't know what spiritual process was at the exact moment of his physical death. What is the paradox of "spiritual death"? No one knows exactly. Eloi Eloi Lama Sabachthani My God My God why have you forsaken me is revelation that Jesus spiritually suffered. Jesus was physically suffering and Shedding Blood at the same time of this spiritual suffering. No one knows God's processes of the entire relationship of these three sufferings. It was partially revealed.

As Chafer said:

Vol. 3, Page 53 The Son cries, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Ps. 22:1; Matt. 27:46), yet it is affirmed that it was the very God to whom He cried that was, at that precise moment, “in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself” (2 Cor. 5:19). To finite minds all this is paradoxical,...

Substitution Vol. 7, Page 296 (1) The non-sweet savor oblations were, first, the sin offering and, second, the trespass offering. In these the perfection of the offering itself had to be insisted upon since Christ the Antitype is perfect in Himself, but of course, at the same time, the offering is invested with the sin of the offerer. They are called non-sweet savor offerings since God cannot look upon sin with allowance whatsoever. In fulfilling this type of sacrifice Christ cried, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matt. 27:46).

Death Vol. 7, Page 115 The death of Christ becomes an exception to all aspects of human death. While He died physically, it was not, as with others, a penalty for a share that He ever had in Adam’s sin; for with that He, being unfallen in His humanity, had had no part. In respect to spiritual death, there is no clear declaration of how far Christ entered that realm. He of course did say, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matt. 27:46). Where God is silent the devout mind should hesitate to intrude.

Christology Vol. 7, Page 80 3. The Efficacious Sufferings, Death, and Burial of the Son of God. Considering these three events separately:
a. HIS SUFFERINGS. The evidence presented in John 19:28 intimates that the actual bearing of the judgments of sin fell upon Christ in the hours of His suffering which terminated in death. It was just before He said “It is finished” that John declares of Him, “Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.” What was actually experienced by Christ in those six hours upon the cross cannot be known in this world by any man; yet the value of it is received by those who believe.
b. HIS DEATH. It was required of any efficacious sacrifice that it should be delivered unto death and the shedding of blood. The death of Christ is the antitype of every typical sacrifice and determined the nature of that particular type. Typical sacrificial deaths through bloodshedding were such as God required because of the truth that Christ would thus be sacrificed. The range of Biblical testimony respecting Christ’s death may be examined in seven divisions, namely: (1) types, (2) prophecies, (3) historical declarations of the Synoptic Gospels, (4) declarations of the Apostle John in his Gospel, Epistles, and Revelation, (5) declarations of the Apostle Paul, (6) of the Apostle Peter, and (7) of the Letter to the Hebrews.
If it be inquired, as constantly it is, Who put Christ to death? it may be pointed out that He was offered by the Father (Ps. 22:15; John 3:16; Rom. 3:25), of His own free will (John 10:17; Heb. 7:27; 9:14; 10:12), by the Spirit (Heb. 9:14), and by men—Herod, Pilate, the Gentiles, and Israel (Acts 2:23; 4:27). To this may be added that part in His death which was contributed by Satan (cf. Gen. 3:15).
The death of Christ achieved a vast array of objectives. At least fourteen of these are indicated in this work under Soteriology (Vol. III).
c. HIS BURIAL. As the scapegoat type anticipated, Christ carried away the burden of sin into oblivion. He went into the grave a sin-bearer and He came out the Lord of glory.



Truthtesty

ps quote: Although learning from my own personal study and from others teachers God has kept me advancing with the help of and ministry Pastor RBThieme.

Truthtesty: You are intentionally misrepresenting the facts, if you are trying to suggest to the public that personal study was the "norm" at the Thieme temple. It was not. Thieme did not encourage personal study at all. Thieme said "whether you like it or not your are dependent upon me". This is part of the reason Thieme is considered a cult leader. The Holy Spirit is the Master teacher. The Christian is dependent on the Holy Spirit, not Thieme. The flesh and blood of authority of Thieme is corrupt. No Christian should forgo thier own personal study for another Christian's study.

Dr. Wall is correct when he said: Third, he gives a false impression as to the believer's personal responsibility relative to testing the reliability of teachers and relative to his own personal study. For Thieme, once one joins a church fellowship, he is to unquestioningly respond to the pastor's authoritative teaching and rely on this pastor to do his study for him. This contradicts the biblical example of the Bereans (Acts 17:10-11) and the clear exhortations to test the doctrine of teachers (I Cor. 12:1-3; 1 John 4:1-3; Gal. 1: 6-1 0). It also contradicts the intent of the gift of pastor-teacher. According to Ephesians 4, it along with the gift of evangelist and the temporary gifts of apostle and prophet were primarily given to the church to prepare or equip the saints to minister and edify the body of Christ. It would seem strange indeed to think of one's being equipped to minister as a self-sustaining, contributing unit in the body of Christ, and yet unable to be selfsustaining in his own personal study of Scripture .

1 Timothy 5:
19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. 20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Innocent people are truly harmed by Thieme.


Truthtesty

<sup>ps quote: you have to remember that it's the sins of mankind that has to be atoned for so why would God come as an Angel of Jehovah. That would not make sence. The God man not the God angel had to pay for the sins of man since Adam and the Woman sinned. The second Adam a perfect man had to be judged. His humanity had to be judged. The sins of mankind had to be judged on a perfect man.

Truthtesty:
Much of what you say has no logical connection, you just state it "as so" without proof (like Thieme). You have to remember Jesus' humanity being judged was not "spiritual death only". You and Thieme don't make sense.
Truthtesty</sup>

Truthtesty: Also, you say "humanity" as if to dodge "Flesh and Blood", but that doesn't work.

Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer I. Christ’s Humanity Was Anticipated Before the Foundation of the World Vol. I, Page 367

II. THE OLD TESTAMENT EXPECTATION WAS OF A HUMAN MESSIAH
This expectation was twofold: (a) as outlined in the types and (b) as foretold in prophecy:
1. The Types. Of upwards of fifty types of Christ found in the Old Testament, the majority either directly or indirectly represent, among other features, the humanity of Christ. It is obvious that, where blood is shed, a body sacrificed, or a typical person appears, the human element is indicated.

If it were "spiritual death only" necessary for salvation, then the "substance" of the angel of the God angel would not matter, just the "spiritual death only" of the angel of the God angel would matter. If it were "spiritual death only" that was a sufficient sacrifice pleasing to God, then the angel of the Angel of Jehovah could have accomplished "spiritual death only".

Therefore, the "substance" or "Flesh and Blood" of Jesus was necessary for salvation.


Truthtesty

[...]

The first century Church with all there accuracy still had false teachers and those who taught doctrine that was not sound doctrine. The water is very, very muddy today but with the ICE teaching system God's accurate truth will be exposed thereby producing more mature Christians and a more unified Christian body of Christ, the Church and let us not forget mature Pastors. Winner believers who will not be ashamed at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

So TT are saying that LS Chafer did not agree with Kettel? Or did he?

As for you describing Berachah Church as Thieme's temple we never call it a temple. Are you misrepresenting by saying that? Who do you know ever heard him call his church that except you? Or is that just your slur? People worship in a Church building and our Body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. You should know that with all your doctrine you say you have.

You and others don't agree with Thieme that is OK, I've studied under his ministry probably millions as well and All I can say is what I've experienced, it has been the most awesome happiness, peace and spiritual prosperity from God [...]

[...] As a result of the diligent study of Robert B Thieme inwhich I do not consider a CULT, To whom much is given much is expected, right? But he does not expect perfection but he does expect our doctrine to be correct. I have been blessed with a mature relatinship with God and have learned many wonderful things that I had not or even heard others teach. It has resolved many questions I had as a result of reading the KJV Bible and my personal study.

For example: Doctrine of Tongues; Doctrine of Origin of Life; D of Arrogance; D of Divine Decrees; Doctrine of Difference between Sin, Human Good and Evil; Doctrine of Old Sin Nature; Doctrine of Eternal Security; D of Baptism of the Holy Spirit; D of the Gifts of the Spirit; D of Intercalation; D of Pleroo; and many other categorical doctrines including the Doctrine of the Blood of Christ.

Others say or imply we worship a man [...] RBT, a person, an imperfect man like everyone is, who explains the word from the original languages. Who were the other people who taught their congregations that way since 1950, through ICE teaching? He was the only one when I was on my 3 year search that I found..

Any doctrines that are or were wrong always are corrected by God through the continued study of the word by Pastors who teach. Ask yourself how many were taught wrong before the reformation? Were they corrected? yes and evidently we have some doctrines today that are wrong too and God through the study of diligent Pastors will get them corrected and has already with some, for many already have been are those who will accept the correction and there will be those who still hold on to the errors of the past just like during the reformation period occurred, that's the reason there are denominations of old. God wants the unity of the faith to be kept though. So it depends on the diligence of Pastors to feed the flock of God and prayer to the Heavenly Father being in fellowship with him and God will lead us to that truth. Our personal study is flawed because of the lack of tools to decipher what is in the original so we have to depend on others like TT depends on L.S. Chafer and myself RBT.

[...]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2008 09:06PM by rrmoderator.

pss quote: The first century Church with all there accuracy still had false teachers and those who taught doctrine that was not sound doctrine. The water is very, very muddy today but with the ICE teaching system God's accurate truth will be exposed thereby producing more mature Christians and a more unified Christian body of Christ, the Church and let us not forget mature Pastors. Winner believers who will not be ashamed at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Truthtesty: If you think the waters are muddy, then Thieme is quicksand. Thieme's ICE approach is cultic on the concept of spiritual growth.

Dr. Wall's doctoral dissertation: [www.texaswalls.org]Critique
One's first reaction to this extremely complex analysis of the maturity process is that it is totally absurd, and that Thieme must not be serious -- but apparently he is serious. After making some observations about the difference between human wisdom and divine wisdom and about the significance of the term epignosis, he begins to believe his own detailed description of the soul and spirit and to push it to extremes far beyond any biblical teaching. One striking characteristic of Thieme's in-depth analysis in this area is the almost total absence of sound exegesis. The statement in James 1:21 concerning the implanted word (emphuton logon) is expanded without any exegetical basis to describe four of Thieme's own categories of production. A brief reference to Peter's reminding of believers to remember certain doctrines is supposed to be a sufficient biblical base for the concept of the memory center "valves." Although it is proper to observe the special emphasis that the term epignosis has, Thieme has overstated the distinctions between gnosis and epignosis. Knowledge (gnosis) does not have the highly technical sense employed by Thieme. It is used of the knowledge in the mind of God (Rom.11:33), and it is also used of one of the building blocks in the structuring of Christian character in 2 Peter 1:5 (Here the term seems more in keeping with Thieme's concept of epignosis.). It is probably best to take the term gnosis to refer to knowledge in general, including at times epignosis; epignosis does, however, seem to have a more specialized use: Christian knowledge which “carries with it a corresponding manner of life.”
There are two primary problems with Thieme's concept of the process of growth (the function of GAP). First, it demands a view of the pastor-teacher that is not in keeping with the biblical statements nor with the biblical mentality. This will be discussed further in the next chapter. Second, the entire process that Thieme propounds can be reduced to one phrase: Be positive toward and believe what is taught. Not only does this concept dangerously produce a blind dependency on a pastor-teacher, but it fails to encompass the clear scriptural pattern for growth. Paul's classic passage on spiritual maturity, Ephesians 4, indicates two aspects of the process that Thieme has overlooked. First, verse 16 teaches that spiritual growth takes place through the contact and interaction of the members of the body of Christ, as every spiritual gift in the body functions and ministers to other gifts. Second, the subject of "speaking the truth in love" in verse 15 is "we." In the context this means the whole body of believers.
Not only does the process of spiritual maturity involve all of the members of the body ministering to one another, but the biblical pattern requires application of truth, not only as a result of maturity but as a part of the process of
growing itself. Christ taught that a volitional decision to obey God's will would result in discernment (John 7:17). He also taught that the building of our spiritual house and its stability depends upon acting upon the teachings of Christ (Matt. 7:24-27). Also the writer of Hebrews taught that a key element in spiritual maturity is the discernment between good and evil, and he indicated that practical exercise (hexin) was necessary to develop mature discernment. The maturing process is not sitting under a particular, authoritative pastor-teacher every night of the week and responding with positive faith. It is the loving communication of the truths of God's Word by all of the members of the body, expressing the particular illumination that the Holy Spirit gives to each person in accordance with his particular gift. The pastor-teacher and the evangelist (Eph. 4:1 lb) are to equip the saints (all believers) with the tools for personal Bible study and application; the saints, in turn, carry out the work of service for the purpose of building up the body of Christ (Eph. 4:12). Each individual Christian grows as he responds to the truth so communicated to him. That response includes both attitude changes and overt actions. Thieme's GAP approach is totally off-balanced. Not only does it fail to enhance true spiritual growth, it actually can inhibit true growth by giving the believer a false sense of maturity, not unlike the "puffed up" believer in I Corinthians 8: 1.


Truthtesty

pss quote: So TT are saying that LS Chafer did not agree with Kettel? Or did he?

Truthtesty: On the Blood of Christ? No Nazi Doktor Kittle and Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer disagree with one another. It is amazing isn't it? How you have been hoodwinked? Thieme tried to shoulder up his "junk theology" with both nazi Doktor Kittle and American Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer. Yet? You do not even know that they disagreed on such a central value of Christianity as the Blood of Jesus? (is it raining?) Will you admit here today that you are just a mindless thiemebot? Did you ever question Thieme on anything? I bet you never knew that nazi Dr. Gerhard Kittle was one on "Hitler's theologians". Don't you find it strange that "Mr. WWII" never mentioned that Dr. Kittle was a nazi war criminal arrested by Allied forces, imprisoned for 17 months, and twisted the Word of God from one of favoring the Jews to one of persecuting the Jews through the use of "sleight of hand" exegesis of the greek? How difficult was it for Thieme to use "sleight of hand exegesis" to create a blueprint for a false "imperial christianity"? that is so much to the liking of the corrupt corporate Military Industrial Complex and corrupt corporations? Thieme corruptly engenders a ridiculous submission (with no discernment) to any and all authority NO MATTER HOW RIDICULOUS THE ORDER, if that authority is corporate or military. In Thieme's case he falls into both categories "the Colonel of Berachah Inc."

Per Dr. Wall's doctoral dissertation:
This extreme emphasis on authority can also result in an irresponsible submissive attitude. Although Thieme may not directly encourage such an attitude, his doctrine of right pastor and his authoritative methodology does. Denny Rydberg quotes a member of Berachah Church as stating, "if the Colonel told us to build a whore house on the back lot of the Church, we would do it without questioning."19 (19 Rydberg, "Sieg Heil," p.24.)


pss quote: As for you describing Berachah Church as Thieme's temple we never call it a temple. Are you misrepresenting by saying that? Who do you know ever heard him call his church that except you? Or is that just your slur? People worship in a Church building and our Body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. You should know that with all your doctrine you say you have.

Truthtesty:

As Dr. Wall said: Thieme's concept of authority discourages a critical evaluation of his teaching, so his students are not only limited by having only one pastoral example, but they must accept the errors which he teaches along with the truth without any functional means for discriminating between the two.
Thieme's false concept of authority (doctrine of right pastor) is not equal in anyway to God's authority. Thieme's "christian human view" is not equal to the divine view of God. Thieme's words are not equal to the Word of God. Thus the verbage "thieme temple".

pss quote: You and others don't agree with Thieme that is OK, I've studied under his ministry probably millions as well and All I can say is what I've experienced, it has been the most awesome happiness, peace and spiritual prosperity from God [...]

Truthtesty: Spoken like a true culty. I doubt millions or even 1 million. Thieme is relatively unknown. Is it really OK? I think not. You keep returning after saying "see ya". Shouldn't you be corrupting to a Thieme tape? instead of returning here to try to irritate this forum with your generalized praise of Thieme?

pss quote: [...] As a result of the diligent study of Robert B Thieme inwhich I do not consider a CULT, To whom much is given much is expected, right? But he does not expect perfection but he does expect our doctrine to be correct.

Truthtesty: What study? He basically copied and twisted Dr. Chafer. Oh what a wicked web we weave when first we set out to deceive. Thieme's doctrine was mostly incorrect.

pss quote: I have been blessed with a mature relatinship with God and have learned many wonderful things that I had not or even heard others teach. It has resolved many questions I had as a result of reading the KJV Bible and my personal study.

Truthtesty: See my last post "Thieme's GAP approach is totally off-balanced. Not only does it fail to enhance true spiritual growth, it actually can inhibit true growth by giving the believer a false sense of maturity, not unlike the "puffed up" believer in I Corinthians 8: 1."


pss quote: Others say or imply we worship a man [...] RBT, a person, an imperfect man like everyone is, who explains the word from the original languages. Who were the other people who taught their congregations that way since 1950, through ICE teaching? He was the only one when I was on my 3 year search that I found..

Truthtesty: Dr. Walvoord used isagogics, exegesis, and categories and more. Thieme created an acronym ICE and hid behind that acronym and created a lot of false doctrine. Dr. Walvoord also corrected Thieme for Thieme trying to falsely use Dr. Walvoords teachings. I am sure Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer would have corrected Thieme for Thieme's abuse of Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer's teachings, but Dr. Chafer is no longer on this earth to do so. And I am glad to help Dr. Chafer out in that respect. Aren't you? Isn't it important for "doctrine to be correct"?

Note to moderator: Most of this information would be shocking to most thiemites who have never heard it before, yet PastorThiemeisGreat2m is unremarkably silent on any new information and continues to relentlessly generalize praise for Thieme instead, just as genez and all the other thiemites. It is likely that PastorThiemeisGreat2m is one of the former thiemites on this forum and is now just trying a different approach of attack.


Truthtesty