R.B. Thieme Jr.
Date: April 23, 2007 07:20AM
All the following scriptures promise us the forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ, with no exceptions or stipulations, and never even a hint of “other kinds of forgiveness” that will not be accomplished until the resurrection. The forgiveness of our sins cannot be a partially accomplished, ongoing process (as it is in Roman Catholicism).
[b:5cad5a9bdb]Acts 13:38-39 [/b:5cad5a9bdb]Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you [b:5cad5a9bdb]the forgiveness of sins[/b:5cad5a9bdb]: And by him all that believe are [b:5cad5a9bdb]justified from [u:5cad5a9bdb]all[/u:5cad5a9bdb] things[/b:5cad5a9bdb], from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
[b:5cad5a9bdb]Acts 10:43 [/b:5cad5a9bdb]To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name [b:5cad5a9bdb]whosoever believeth in him shall receive [u:5cad5a9bdb]remission of sins[/u:5cad5a9bdb][/b:5cad5a9bdb].
[b:5cad5a9bdb]Acts 26:18 [/b:5cad5a9bdb]To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive [b:5cad5a9bdb]forgiveness of sins[/b:5cad5a9bdb], and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
[b:5cad5a9bdb]Eph 1:6-7[/b:5cad5a9bdb] To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the [b:5cad5a9bdb]forgiveness of sins[/b:5cad5a9bdb], according to the riches of his grace;
[b:5cad5a9bdb]Eph 4:32 [/b:5cad5a9bdb]And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, [b:5cad5a9bdb]even as God for Christ’s sake [u:5cad5a9bdb]hath forgiven[/u:5cad5a9bdb] you[/b:5cad5a9bdb].
[b:5cad5a9bdb]Col 1:13-14 [/b:5cad5a9bdb]Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the [b:5cad5a9bdb]forgiveness of sins[/b:5cad5a9bdb]:
[b:5cad5a9bdb]Col 3:13 [/b:5cad5a9bdb]Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: [b:5cad5a9bdb]even as Christ [u:5cad5a9bdb]forgave[/u:5cad5a9bdb] you[/b:5cad5a9bdb], so also do ye.
[b:5cad5a9bdb]1 John 2:12[/b:5cad5a9bdb] I write unto you, little children, because [b:5cad5a9bdb]your sins are forgiven you [/b:5cad5a9bdb]for his name’s sake.
[b:5cad5a9bdb]Heb 10:17-18 [/b:5cad5a9bdb]And [b:5cad5a9bdb]their [u:5cad5a9bdb]sins[/u:5cad5a9bdb] and [u:5cad5a9bdb]iniquities[/u:5cad5a9bdb] will I remember [u:5cad5a9bdb]no more[/u:5cad5a9bdb][/b:5cad5a9bdb]. Now where [b:5cad5a9bdb][u:5cad5a9bdb]remission[/u:5cad5a9bdb][/b:5cad5a9bdb] of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
[b:5cad5a9bdb]Col 2:13-14 [/b:5cad5a9bdb]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, [b:5cad5a9bdb]having [u:5cad5a9bdb]forgiven[/u:5cad5a9bdb] you [u:5cad5a9bdb]all[/u:5cad5a9bdb] trespasses[/b:5cad5a9bdb]; blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
When God says [i:5cad5a9bdb]all [/i:5cad5a9bdb]our sins are forgiven, He means [i:5cad5a9bdb]all [/i:5cad5a9bdb]sins. And there is not the slightest hint in any of these scriptures that we will have to wait for the resurrection for our forgiveness to be complete.
The following scriptures promise us the cleansing/washing away of our sins through faith in Christ, with no exceptions or stipulations. The washing and cleansing of our sins and unrighteousness cannot be a partially accomplished, ongoing process (as it is in Roman Catholicism). It is a Finished Work, complete the moment we trust in Jesus Christ as our Savior.
[b:5cad5a9bdb]1 Cor 6:11 [/b:5cad5a9bdb]And such were some of you: but [b:5cad5a9bdb]ye are [u:5cad5a9bdb]washed[/u:5cad5a9bdb][/b:5cad5a9bdb], but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
[b:5cad5a9bdb]Eph 5:25-27 [/b:5cad5a9bdb]Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and [b:5cad5a9bdb]cleanse [/b:5cad5a9bdb]it with the [b:5cad5a9bdb]washing [/b:5cad5a9bdb]of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, [b:5cad5a9bdb]not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing[/b:5cad5a9bdb]; but that it should be [b:5cad5a9bdb]holy and [/b:5cad5a9bdb][b:5cad5a9bdb]without blemish[/b:5cad5a9bdb].
[b:5cad5a9bdb]Titus 3:4-7[/b:5cad5a9bdb] But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by [b:5cad5a9bdb]the [u:5cad5a9bdb]washing[/u:5cad5a9bdb] of regeneration[/b:5cad5a9bdb], and renewing of the Holy Ghost; which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
[b:5cad5a9bdb]Rev 1:5[/b:5cad5a9bdb] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and [b:5cad5a9bdb][u:5cad5a9bdb]washed[/u:5cad5a9bdb] us from our [u:5cad5a9bdb]sins[/u:5cad5a9bdb] [/b:5cad5a9bdb]in his own blood,
[b:5cad5a9bdb]1 John 1:7[/b:5cad5a9bdb] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and [b:5cad5a9bdb]the blood of Jesus Christ his Son [u:5cad5a9bdb]cleanseth[/u:5cad5a9bdb] us from all [u:5cad5a9bdb]sin[/u:5cad5a9bdb][/b:5cad5a9bdb].
When God says we are cleansed from [i:5cad5a9bdb]all [/i:5cad5a9bdb]sin by the blood of His Son, He means [i:5cad5a9bdb]all [/i:5cad5a9bdb]sin—He is not saying that we’re only cleansed until the next time we sin. If this isn’t enough to prove that the forgiveness and cleansing of our sins is complete through the Cross at the moment of faith in Christ, then you are just refusing to acknowledge the clear, straightforward declarations of Scripture.
[b:5cad5a9bdb]1 John 1:9[/b:5cad5a9bdb] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to [b:5cad5a9bdb][u:5cad5a9bdb]forgive[/u:5cad5a9bdb] us our sins[/b:5cad5a9bdb], and to [b:5cad5a9bdb][u:5cad5a9bdb]cleanse[/u:5cad5a9bdb] us from [u:5cad5a9bdb]all[/u:5cad5a9bdb] unrighteousness[/b:5cad5a9bdb].
When God says we are cleansed from [i:5cad5a9bdb]all [/i:5cad5a9bdb]unrighteousness, He means [i:5cad5a9bdb]all [/i:5cad5a9bdb]unrighteousness—He is not saying that we’re only cleansed until the next time we sin.
[i:5cad5a9bdb]All sins [b:5cad5a9bdb]will ultimately be forgiven [/b:5cad5a9bdb]when we are in a resurrection body.[/i:5cad5a9bdb]
Could you please show me one scripture that says this? What about the saints who have died and are now awaiting the resurrection?
You are merely re-stating what Galiban has already posted. And you are not even responding to my refutation of his statements.
[u:5cad5a9bdb]Galiban wrote:[/u:5cad5a9bdb]
[i:5cad5a9bdb]At this point your belief would come in that now we have the “Completed work of the Cross” This is not an inaccurate doctrine. We were completely forgiven for our sins. True! We will never be judged for those sins. True! The confession of sins does not in anyway affect our salvation. True! We will only be judged for our works/deeds at the judgement. Not sins. Only one sin, that is unbelief, can stop you from entering heaven.
That is positional truth!
To further explain this; we were positionally forgiven our sins at salvation, we are experientially forgiven our sins as we confess them inside the function of our Royal Priesthood/Universal Priesthood, and we are ultimately forgiven all sins in the eternal state.[/i:5cad5a9bdb]
[u:5cad5a9bdb]I replied:[/u:5cad5a9bdb]
This is a perfect example of what Thieme’s convoluted technical system produces. We now have, not one, not two, but three kinds of forgiveness! Do you have a shred of proof for this, Galiban? If we are indeed completely forgiven already, then there is no need for this so-called “ultimate” forgiveness that we have to wait for eternity to receive. We can have the confidence of complete forgiveness right now in time. We do not have to wait for eternity for our forgiveness to be complete. Simple common sense, Galiban: If we are still waiting for some kind of “ultimate” forgiveness, then our forgiveness is not complete at all. God cannot partially forgive sins, Galiban. He can either completely and eternally forgive us for our transgressions against Him through the perfect sacrifice of His Son at the Cross, or He cannot forgive us at all. When God forgives, He forgives all our sins [i:5cad5a9bdb]completely and eternally[/i:5cad5a9bdb]. Our sins are washed away, and can never come between Him and us again. Forgiveness is completely accomplished by the Cross of Jesus Christ the moment we believe in Him. And to say that our forgiveness is not yet finished is borderline heresy. It compromises the Finished Work of the Cross.
[i:5cad5a9bdb]God can not be one with sin.[/i:5cad5a9bdb]
This was the whole reason for THE CROSS. The Cross resolved this issue with God’s holiness once and for all, the moment we believed in Christ. It does not need to keep getting resolved again every time we sin. Otherwise, the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross was not complete.
Again, you are re-stating Galiban’s comments, and ignoring my response.
[u:5cad5a9bdb]Galiban wrote:[/u:5cad5a9bdb]
[i:5cad5a9bdb]Understand we need to be restored to fellowship with God. God cannot have contact with Sin. (1 John 1:5, Habakkuk 1:13)[/i:5cad5a9bdb]
[u:5cad5a9bdb]I replied:[/u:5cad5a9bdb]
Understand, Galiban, that God is a perfectly holy, just God, who can have [i:5cad5a9bdb]no contact with sin whatsoever[/i:5cad5a9bdb]. We must be [i:5cad5a9bdb]completely and forever [/i:5cad5a9bdb]forgiven and cleansed from our sins, and [i:5cad5a9bdb]always [/i:5cad5a9bdb]accepted and in fellowship with God, or not at all. There is no such thing as this on-and-off, ping-pong kind of forgiveness, cleansing, and fellowship and acceptance with God anywhere in the Bible. God is holy and just. He can either accept us through the blood of Jesus Christ and fellowship with us, or He cannot.
[i:5cad5a9bdb]So, when we sin, it [b:5cad5a9bdb]cuts us off from fellowship [/b:5cad5a9bdb]with the Spirit.[/i:5cad5a9bdb]
Could you please show me one scripture that says this? ...and prove to us that it’s not just your own assumption?
[i:5cad5a9bdb]The forgiveness we now receive is [b:5cad5a9bdb]a family matter[/b:5cad5a9bdb].[/i:5cad5a9bdb]
Could you please show me one scripture that says this?
[i:5cad5a9bdb]We get back in fellowship, walking in the Spirit, when we do acknowledge (admit) our sins.[/i:5cad5a9bdb]
Could you please show me one scripture where we have to “get back in fellowship”? Or one scripture where “getting back in fellowship” has anything to do with walking in the Spirit? Or one scripture where either of these have anything to do with confessing our sins?
Once again, you have merely repeated what Galiban already said, but you are not dealing with my refutation of his post.
[u:5cad5a9bdb]Galiban wrote:[/u:5cad5a9bdb]
[i:5cad5a9bdb]Ephesians 5 tells us how we grieve the spirit. 1John Chapter 1 tells us how to regain that fellowship.[/i:5cad5a9bdb]
[u:5cad5a9bdb]I replied:[/u:5cad5a9bdb]
There is a giant ASSUMPTION in between these two sentences. You ASSUME that grieving the Spirit means losing fellowship. Yet, in spite of my repeated challenges to both you and ephesians, you have not presented a shred of evidence that grieving the Spirit and fellowship have anything to do with each other. Why couldn’t Paul have simply just told us how to “regain that fellowship” right in Ephesians 5? Wasn’t it awfully irresponsible of him to leave out such an important point?
[b:5cad5a9bdb]Amos 3:3[/b:5cad5a9bdb] Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
As I have already covered in detail in my posts to ephesians, walking by the Spirit is dependent on [i:5cad5a9bdb]repentance[/i:5cad5a9bdb], not “rebound.” We walk with the Lord by [i:5cad5a9bdb]obeying [/i:5cad5a9bdb]Him. He said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments.” You cannot read “rebound” into Amos 3:3. Amos mentions nothing about naming a list of sins to God in prayer to be restored to fellowship.