Hello,

I am wondering about former members experiences with the teachings surrounding parenting and discipline of their children. I personally wasn't a part of this church but am trying to understand a friend of mine.

I appreciate your opinions and responses.

HelloCucumberMelon33,

The first thought is of the simple definition of a destructiveness of a hurtful "cult".

Every military officer in the US armed forces has usually stood and gave speeches in front of soldiers, sailors, or airmen by the hundreds under strict military authority. Though undoubtedly Thieme learned his speaking skills from the military, this was one of Thieme's shortcomings of his interpretations. Thieme confused (He isn't the only one) the authority of corrupt man (In Thieme's case strong military authority background) with the perfect authority of God. For those who follow Thieme's every word as if it were the perfect Word of God, it causes spiritual corruption (as opposed to spiritual freedom). Though it may not feel like corruption at the time to the thiemite, deep down they know that it is. This coruption does manifest itself sooner or later physically, spiritually and emotionally.

It is the annointing that teaches [biblehub.com]

Also for false authority in the church [forum.culteducation.com] and can use search function on this website for more.


While a "positive" parent has a choice to physically leave, the child "positive" or "negative", is usually forced to listen to through repeated attendance and/or Thieme tapes ad nauseam. The destruction manifests spiritually, emotionally and physically both parent and child. The parent is able to leave, while the child is usually not. The child is not fully developed. This leads to many destructive behaviors: isolationism, a "retro" backwards of identity immaturation, child often repetitively repeats what they have memorized from Thieme with no interest in social belonging, cuts all hair off like Thieme, copies Thiemes mannerisms and identity, unable to form their own ideas often children just follow the Thiemite "re-education camp" prejudices, us vs them, calling people spiritually "bad" names who don't agree with thiemites, and more etc...

Iv'e seen thiemites so consumed and obsessed with the false rat wheel spirituality of "rebound" (not a greek word in the bible) repeating it so often that they lose functional control of their own mental faculties and bump into walls.

But? That's 1 reason that thiemites outwardly social appearances are so "perfect" to the public, to cover up what's really going on inside.

It's a real travesty and completely unnecessary.


Truthtesty

Hello,

Over the past week I have read through this forum to gain insight into the doctrinal system in which I was raised. I was not apart of Berachah, but one of Thieme's offshoot doctrinal bible study churches. One resource was particularly helpful: the 4shared files compiled by user orangeperuviscacha (current link: [www.4shared.com]).

I used the Wayback Machine to find all of the old files that are not currently available, and I have attached a screenshot of the former files. What I am primarily interested in is the file named "RB Thieme Jr files.pdf".

Unfortunately these files are no longer available and this forum has lost activity. I'm hoping that one of the long-term posters, like TruthTesty, has this pdf downloaded and can share it with me.

Any help on this matter is greatly appreciated, thank you!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2024 12:32AM by beetfarmer.

The forum has people that hang around and watch for new activity. I found this back in December 2022, read through it all and revisit it to check on activity about once a month. This is my first post. This forum has helped me a lot, as I still am making sense of all of the Thieme teachings since my Father has been a follower of them his whole life.

Greetings Beetfarmer,

Can you check if you received a pm from me.

Have a good day.

Hello again,

In today's modern time, I think for the truth seeking christian public consensus all one really needs to discern the truth about Thieme's highly controlled auditorium lectures, is use AI Chatgpt (or some other AI) in conjunction with Dr. Joe Layton Wall's dissertation [withchrist.org] or whatever tapes or booklets of Thieme you have or download. Be honest. Be exact. Put in all the greek. Ask about dispensational and or non-dispensational greek translation. Don't lie. You will see.

Be honest and work through all your questions about what Thieme has stated. Be exact.

Test R.B. Thieme jr Test Dr. Wall etc... Test Chatgpt Test yourself Test all things including me


Truthtesty



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2026 04:16AM by Truthtesty.

Here are a few example questions for a Thiemite to see the **false authority fusion** without starting with accusations.

## Christ vs. Thieme authority

1. When you think of Thieme’s authority, do you consciously place Christ above him?

2. If Christ has **all authority**, what exact authority did Thieme have that could not be tested?

3. If Christ has **all authority** — why would a pastor-teacher function as untouchable?

4. Did Thieme have Christ’s authority, or only a pastor’s limited teaching responsibility?

5. Where does the Bible give one pastor **absolute authority** over the believer’s conscience?

6. If Hebrews speaks of leaders/guides, why did Thieme’s system function like command authority?

7. If pastors are shepherds, why did Thieme’s authority often look more like military command?

8. Did Jesus use His authority to dominate people or to serve, suffer, and die for them?

9. If Christ’s authority is servant authority, why should pastoral authority feel like chain-of-command control?

10. Can a pastor’s teaching be wrong even when he sounds confident?

## Testing Thieme

11. If even Paul’s teaching was examined by Scripture, why can’t Thieme’s teaching be examined?

12. When you test Thieme, do you feel like you are testing a man or betraying God?

13. If testing Thieme feels like betraying Christ, has Thieme been fused with Christ in your conscience?

14. Does “test all things” include Thieme?

15. Can the Greek disagree with Thieme?

16. Can Scripture correct Thieme?

17. Can conscience before Christ warn you that Thieme is wrong?

18. If one Greek word does not support Thieme’s claim, are you allowed to admit that?

19. If one doctrine fails, do you revise the doctrine or protect the whole system?

20. Does truth need total control, or can truth survive honest testing?

## “Bible doctrine” vs. Thieme doctrine

21. When you say “Bible doctrine,” do you mean Scripture itself or Thieme’s interpretation of Scripture?

22. Can there be a difference between **Bible doctrine** and **Thieme doctrine**?

23. If Thieme used Greek words, does that prove his conclusions?

24. Can a man use Greek correctly in places and still build false conclusions?

25. Can a pastor quote Scripture while still rerouting the meaning through his own system?

26. Did Greek prove Thieme’s categories, or did Greek decorate them?

27. Was “Bible doctrine” sometimes a label that made Thieme’s speculation feel divine?

28. If Thieme’s personal opinion was not supported by the Greek, should it still be called Bible doctrine?

29. When Thieme said something shocking, were you allowed to stop and test it?

30. Did the auditorium allow real testing, or only receiving?

## Conscience

31. Who owns your conscience: Christ or the pastor-teacher?

32. Did Christ cleanse your conscience so Thieme could occupy it?

33. Did Christ suffer, bleed, die, and rise so your conscience could be reduced to a doctrine-status meter?

34. Is your conscience supposed to function before Christ or before Thieme’s labels?

35. When your conscience reacts against Thieme, do you test that reaction or immediately label it negative volition?

36. Can conscience pain mean injury, not sin?

37. Can false authority wound a conscience?

38. Can a believer’s conscience be violated by a pastor’s teaching?

39. Does “submit to authority” mean surrender your conscience?

40. Is a cleansed conscience supposed to serve the living God or serve a pastor’s system?

## Loaded labels

41. When you question Thieme, what label appears first: honest testing or reversionism?

42. Did “reversionism” answer your question, or did it silence your question?

43. Did “negative volition” explain the issue, or blame the person who noticed the issue?

44. Did “human viewpoint” sometimes mean “anything not filtered through Thieme”?

45. Did “out of fellowship” become a way to distrust your own conscience?

46. Did “mental attitude sin” make ordinary thoughts feel criminal?

47. Did “rebound” restore conscience, or did it sometimes bypass real moral responsibility?

48. Did the labels help you love people better, or mostly help you classify people?

49. Did the labels make you more honest before Christ, or more afraid of being wrong?

50. Did Thieme’s system answer questions, or diagnose questioners?

## Family and coercion

51. If rejecting Thieme meant losing housing, food, family respect, or belonging, was that faith or coercion?

52. Can forced listening produce real spiritual maturity?

53. If a family member says, “Listen to Thieme or you cannot live here,” is that Christ’s authority or Thieme’s authority enforced by family?

54. If a child questions Thieme and the family calls him reversionistic, is that discernment or social control?

55. Did family love become conditional on loyalty to Thieme?

56. Did “guilt by association” protect Christ, or protect Thieme from dissent?

57. If someone leaves Thieme but still seeks Christ, why treat them as spiritually dangerous?

58. Can someone have faith in Christ before Thieme, during Thieme, and after Thieme?

59. If yes, then was Thieme ever necessary to Christ?

60. Did leaving Thieme mean leaving Christ, or leaving a false authority attached to Christ’s name?

## Auditorium control

61. Why could Thieme speak with total freedom while the listener could barely move, question, or react?

62. Did the room itself teach the doctrine: one man speaks, everyone else submits?

63. Could the audience test openly, or only absorb privately?

64. Was “don’t talk to your neighbor” about order, or did it also prevent immediate Christian testing?

65. Did Thieme’s confidence prove truth, or only stage authority?

66. Could he shock the conscience from the stage while teaching the listener to distrust the shock?

67. Did his teaching give the pastor rhetorical freedom but give the believer interior surveillance?

68. Was the believer free to go to the restroom, question a claim, or say, “That is not what the Greek says”?

69. Could Thieme define your soul more easily than you could trust your own eyes?

70. Did performance become theology?

## Super-grace and suffering

71. If super-grace means blessing, what happens when life hurts?

72. Does pain automatically mean you failed spiritually?

73. Did super-grace make suffering suspicious?

74. Did hardship become proof that you were out of fellowship?

75. Did the system allow grief, mystery, illness, betrayal, and ordinary suffering?

76. Or did it force everything through discipline, reversionism, or failed doctrine?

77. Did Job’s friends reason like that — suffering means you must be wrong?

78. Did Christ promise earthly super-grace comfort, or did He call believers to follow Him through suffering?

79. If every hardship becomes accusation, is that grace or a cage?

80. Does Christ meet you in pain before accusing your conscience?

## Love, humanity, and real Christian life

81. Did Thieme’s system make you more human in Christ or less human?

82. Did it teach you to love actual people, or mainly to process people through labels?

83. Did “privacy” protect people from love while allowing the pastor to invade conscience?

84. Did Christian life become sitting, listening, rebounding, and submitting?

85. What happened to apology, repair, patience, mercy, friendship, grief, and neighbor-love?

86. Did “brotherly love” become a doctrinal category instead of actual love of brethren?

87. Did the system make ordinary human contact suspicious?

88. Did it treat emotional life as weakness instead of part of redeemed humanity?

89. Did Christ come to redeem whole persons or create doctrine-processing machines?

90. Is Christian maturity the ability to repeat Thieme, or the ability to stand honestly before Christ?

91. Can you be positive toward Christ and negative toward Thieme at the same time?

92. If the answer is no, has Thieme functionally become the gatekeeper of Christ?

93. Can you reject Thieme and still see Christ?

94. Can you disagree with Thieme and still love Scripture?

95. Can you test Thieme and still be filled with the Spirit?

96. Can you say, “Thieme was wrong,” without feeling like you are attacking God?

97. If not, what has happened inside your conscience?

98. Did Thieme die for you?

99. Did Thieme cleanse your conscience?

100. Did Thieme rise from the dead?

101. Then why should Thieme’s labels have authority where only Christ belongs?

102. Did Christ cleanse your conscience so you could serve the living God, or so Thieme could reduce it into submission to his system?**

**Thieme did not die for my conscience. Christ did.**

The false authority in Thieme’s system may have been unwitting. He may have believed he was exercising biblical pastoral authority and protecting fragile Christians. But because his military-style view of authority, doctrinal absolutism, and pastor-teacher model were fused together, the result could function as cult-like authority even if that was not his conscious intent.

Thieme’s pastor-teacher authority model seems closer to command authority than cruciform authority. Jesus, the true King, does not lord authority over His people; He serves, dies, shepherds, and frees them. Any pastor who makes believers dependent on his system, afraid to question, and spiritually inferior without his categories is practicing corrupted human authority, not the authority pattern of Christ.

Thieme’s system could become a self-destructing reality machine. It took biblical ideas, military authority, anti-communist politics, and pastor-teacher control, then kept interpreting every doubt, fear, disagreement, or bad outcome through its own categories. Over time, the believer was not learning reality; he was learning Thieme’s imagined map of reality — and calling that map “Bible doctrine. It was not just wrong ideas. It was a system for making wrong ideas feel like spiritual maturity.

Test R.B. Thieme jr Test Dr. Wall etc... Test Chatgpt Test yourself Test all things including me.


Truthtesty



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2026 04:15AM by Truthtesty.

Understanding and navigating R.B. Thieme jr's sayings.

1. Download Dr. Joe Layton Wall's Doctoral dissertation on RBThieme jr's teachings to your computer, save it, then upload into Chatgpt.com . Download Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer's Major Bible Themes . Save it to your computer (Desktop or elsewhere). Then upload to Chatgpt.com

2. Gather as much Thieme material on right pastor, spiritual authority etc... Download to your computer. first then upload to Chatgpt.com .

Get Thieme's greek interpretations and greek exegesis and upload PDFs into Chatgpt.com . Download the .PDF to your computer then save (often Ctrl S or Command S) then upload it into Chatgpt.com . Here's RB Thieme jr's dictionary. Look for other Thieme sources as well. Here's another Mental Attitude Dynamics. Another Christian Integrity. Another Tongues . Look for anything or what his followers say/said about right pastor, pastor teacher, spiritual authority, highest authority etc... and upload into AI Chatgpt.com . If anything bothers you at all about Thieme other than thiemites upload it into Chatgpt. Sometimes you can copy and paste directly into Chatgpt.com as well.

Sample questions to ask:

Is this biblical?
Is this Greek exegesis accurate?
Is this creating dependence on Christ or dependence on one teacher?
How does Thieme use "highest authority"?
Does this protect the conscience or control the conscience?
Does this match 1 Peter 5:3, Acts 17:11, 1 John 4:1, and Matthew 20:25–28, 2 Cor. 1:24?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2026 01:34AM by Truthtesty.