VO sounds more like a kingdom with a royal line than either a denomination or a church.

"King Sonny the First" will be followed by Jr.?

Based upon the very serious complaints that I have received about VO, its programs and pastors I would not recommend VO to anyone under any circumstances.

And rather than depend upon the next King Sonny to be benign, democratic reforms, bylaws and accountability would be better, rather than hoping that the next absolute ruler is nice.

It seems that pastors in VO are much like feudel lords under a king and that many have grown rich through VO and its programs.

The allegations of financial abuses within VO are quite serious.

See [www.culteducation.com]

VO remains a controversial church.

Happily the overwhelming majority of other churches and ministries in the US have no such controversy and enforce accountability of their pastors.

Anyone interested in attending church or participating in church programs need only pick from that large number rather become involved in VO and/or wait and see if that organization gets better some day.

I've had some experiences with Victory Outreach. Anybody ever watch the Sopranos? It's about an organized crime family. Money is made on the streets and everybody pays up the chain until it gets to the boss. Anybody has difficulties? The organization makes it right so everyone can go back to making money.

I think that V.O.'s structure is very similar. I'm not suggesting that they're committing crimes. I simply think that the whole thing is about making money and sending it up.

Coinisidence? I heard that Donald "D" Garcia, Kilroy Roybal and Art Blajos became members in good standing with Victory Outreach. Every one of them preaching, traveling and doing what they can to make a difference on the street. I've heard from more than one source that each has a history with the Mexican Mafia. That's EME as in "American Me".

Is it possible that V.O. started out legit and got mobbed up by the Brothers? Is it possible that acquiring money became a driving force within the organization and everyone learned to "pay up"? Ever look at the people at the bottom of the pile? Guys on parole, gang members trying to get their lives together, recovering addicts and good folks wanting to make a difference. Every one of them putting in work and earning for the organization. But do you ever get a peek at the guys on top? I haven't.

I've been specific enough for anyone who cares to look a little further. Is V.O. a cult? I don't personally think so. Is it a kingdom? I think it is and the folks who can afford it least are footing the bill.

Just what I consider to be a well qualified opinion and nothing more. I'm interested in other points of view so please let me know yours.

It isn't a cult. Nothing that was taught or preached there was extreme during my experience, please note that I'm speaking for just my experience alone.
They do encourage "the gathering of the saints" and you'll hear stories about the impact the ministry has had on addicts and ex-convicts. A miracle for them happened and rather than life in prison or death of their addictions etc., they were given the opportunity of the ministry to gain control of their hearts; with teachings and emphasis against sin. A lifestyle supported and devoted to serving God. The vision itself is devoted to serving God whether or not it is adorned with lavishing -what have you-
It is a ministry that focuses on the inner-cities and dedicates itself to frequent visits to those of the world that many churches just won't "deal with".
Also, Sonny was not praised more than Jesus himself was. I guess those that have experienced this must've had unfortunate experiences. There is an emphasis on money, however, but fractions are contributed to the missionaries and homes etc. as well as the pastor himself as he does live his life for his calling to preach, as a man of God, full-time. The pastor I knew did keep account of the money but I can't speak upon all pastors because as with any other group, it is not unheard of that there are those that aren't in it for the reason that others are. It is sad to hear of the conditions within some of the homes and I do pray that it is helped. There is no harm in the ministry itself though.

Read the whole thread from beginning to end.

We have been over this before.

"Sonny" and the VO pastors have no meaningful accountability or financial transparency.

That is, there are no democratically elected boards voted in by the general membership that can discipline and if necessary fire a pastor. No constitution or bylaws provide for this.

There is no meaningful financial transparency through independently audited published financial statements that detail all salaries, compensation and expenses paid from ministry funds.

Without that kind of accountability VO is little more than a dictatorship where pastors can essentially do whatever they want.

If you wish to support such a system that's your choice, but most Protestant churches are not run that way and have the previously cited safeguards to protect members and church funds from abuse.

Hi,
My name is Tim! I'm a graduate of the Victory Outreach Men's Home in Eagle Rock California. I went into the Home as a meth connect, but God has changed my life drastically. I'm now a Youth Pastor in a Foursquare Church, which is awesome. It's all because of God's Grace! However, I still love Victory Outreach, and have many friends that still go there and are winning people to Jesus everyday. Every denomination has it's problems, but I know that victory outreach isn't a cult. There theology is based on Arminianism which is the same Christian few as pentecostal theology. Sorry for all the religious sounding words. All that I'm saying is that, God loves V.O. as well as he loves any other denomination out there; and even non-denominational churches. God bless everyone who reads these words with the presence of God in a fresh way. I Pray that God's love and gentleness covers all of our flaws today, and for the power of God in each person who reads this so we can Love people like Jesus, and bring them to heaven with us.

timbo:

Please remember the rules you agreed to before posting here.

There is no preaching.

That is not the purpose of this message board.

its been a hot minute yall!........but VO is not the place to be...PERIOD

Victory outreach is pretty scandolous. I have lived in a rehab home of theirs and it is all about using people from the homes to make them MONEY MONEY MONEY. They lie like it is their second nature when it comes to anything having to do with money. It is not just the broken people who are in their rehab homes, they also try and pry into the wallets of their gullible flock. It was such a great honor for me one time to witness their mucho greedy founder Sunny Argunzizzi make a visit to the San Jose, California church. It was kind of like when the Emperor visited the Death Star for the first time. Anyway the San Jose pastor is a guy named Ed or Fred I can't remember his name, I'll just call him Freddie and what Freddie preached about one night when Argunzizzi was visiting was how their church needed its members to sell their houses on an act of faith and give the money to Freddie and Argunzizzi so they could purchase some General Electric property they desired so badly. I couldn't believe it and I still can't to this day how greedy those two guys were.
I used the term gullible to describe the typical victory outreach flock. But not all of them are gullible. vicotory outreach was founded by a junkie and his closest "pastors" (I use the term loosely) are junkies as well. Once a junkie always a junkie, at least the higher command of victory outreach kept their scandalous ways and anyone in the flock who wants to be "in" has got to play the game of being scandalous, too. If you can get past the God stuff and realize you too can be part of a "good thing", then all you have to do is play the game for them. They know when you have "the vision" when they know you will be scandalous for them at any cost. That means things like lying for them. To be a member of the Victory Outreach flock, one must be either scandalous or very, very gullible.
At one of the vicotory outreach's world conferences at Long Beach, California, Freddie from San Jose got up in front of the whole crowd of ten thousand and stated he had a dream the night before that God told him he had three gifts he was going to give the founder, Sunny Argunzizzi. To this day nobody knows what he was talking about, but it sure did sound really good when he said it on the last day of the conference right before they were going to pass the hat around. These examples are just a few and can't even be compared to the thousands and thousands of people's lives that church is responsible for damaging because of so much greed which they mix in with God. They have to admit that God and greed don't go together but they don't care because they are scandalous. Thanks to them I now know what Jesus was saying when he chastised the pharisees and insulted them for making converts twice the sons of hell that they are. We have to drop the act and expose these guys for what they truly believe in, MONEY.

Dear Friends,

Victory outreach has a cultic structure. I have been involved with getting people out of them in the past. This married couple sold all they had and made themselves the slaves of the pastor. The lived in the "church home" worked in the pastor's business and were not paid. They use heavy handed discipleship or Shepherding Movement control over their people. This couple left the group with only the clothes on their back and nothing but spiritual confussion after 2 plus years of "service."

yes it is. I gave 6 years of my life to that ministry. I was a leader in the church and worked in the church office. They manipulate and coerce people to follow their vision. In return tons of people give lots of money just to fill the pockets of the those that are greedy leaders. There is a lot of spiritual abuse that goes on and lots of misuse of spiritual authority. That is what a cult does. They forst get a vision that a select few will be passioante about and feel like they belong. They will be filled with purpose to help fulfill this vision. The leadership will then use tactics to test the individuals loyalty and commitment to the cause. They do this by severe manipulation tactics. They make you feel if you don't give this and that then you are not sold out and are not wanting to see Gods kingdom expand. In truth it is actually the kingdom of Sonny Arguinzoni Sr and all of his chroni's.