Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: squareone ()
Date: September 18, 2012 07:40PM

He does at least have obvious leadership qualities though [me]

I do mean by that the actual ability to lead people and not SMC leadership skills i.e. the ability to be manipulative and belittle people or the ability to be publicly snidey about someone while having a kindly smile on your face. He may show that he possess these qualities too. But I hope not

Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: September 19, 2012 02:15AM

Hi guys

I wouldn't hold your breath for a take-over of leadership until the present leaders pop thier clogs, since this has been the way from the beginning (except where they have denounced and shunned previous leaders to replace them with women).

I believe Clive is probably right about women being more receptive to spiritual nuances than men, who tend to be more logical in thinking than women. I do believe that there are people to whom God does give particular spiritual gifts (not necessarily just women) but I also believe that if someone claims to have such a gift and seems to use this 'gift' to antagonise, scare or malign their fellow human beings then you can be sure that the 'gift' (if it is real) is NOT from God.

If the man you are talking about, squareone, is a son of a present leader then I would think that if he ever does take over he will be leading in the same way his mother has done before him - if he didn't then he would not survive the SMC organisation anyway and would be just as likely to be shunned by the surviving female leaders regardless of his bloodline.

A good test of this man's integrity would be to find out if he could honestly answer any of the questions posed on this site and whether or not he could use proper biblical references to support what SMC (and supposedly he himself) believe and teach. My guess is that he will hold the same beliefs as the current leaders do or he would not continue to attend SMC. But, to my mind, it would not then be a bonus for SMC if he did take over the reigns anyway (assuming one of the current leaders stepped aside or died and the former is highly unlikely).

With regards to the share fiasco, I have no idea how many shares were bought but I do know that they were being sold at £1.30 per share, at the time, payable in three installments over 17 months. By August 1988 the share price had dropped to £1.0153, a loss of just under 30p per share. However, not knowing how many shares were actually bought means it's difficult to say just how much was lost at the time. For example, 100,000 shares would have lost approx. £30,000 and, given that the church was fairly well off at the time, my guess is that there was a lot more than that lost since the accounts in are such a bad state today. However, the set up of the coffee shop and school may also have contributed a good deal to their present sad financial circumstances.

Perhaps those who are in the know about the share dealings are still members of the church and this could be why no one seems to know just how much was lost at the time. It would be very interesting to find out though.

As always
Biiiiig love, hugs and God bless everyone.

Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: lintar123 ()
Date: September 19, 2012 04:01AM

my mind may be failing me slightly, but the word million was in the amount. Whether it was half a million, a million itself or one and a half? but I am looking back information that my husband has on record and will clarify soon. Many other posters must remember too. We weren`t asked to fill in paper our vote. It was done by a show of hands. The person I most thought of and got comfort from at the time was dear Jim McAlree.

Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Rensil ()
Date: September 19, 2012 05:59AM

Two other possible reasons for there being a majority of women leaders in SMC are firstly that Mr Black came from a strict Brethren background where women were not allowed to speak or pray publicly. He was fighting against this teaching (rightly so, in my view) so he had to make quite a big issue of it. This was also because christian people criticised him for having Miss Taylor in leadership; he knew he needed Miss Taylor and he worked closely with her in ministry. The other possible reason, which is a kind of continuation of the first was that he had daughters and no sons and he wanted his daughters to have a full part to play in the church and eventually to be actual leaders, which is just what happened (with two of them anyway). So he made a big thing of justifying women ministry and women leadership. And I agree, Clive, this can have a subtle even a subliminal effect on people, especially on men.

I know the man you are referring to, squareone, and yes he does have leadership abilities. Yes, he will probably be a full leader one day, but only if he completely adheres to the church's teachings and principles, which unfortunately cause members and leaders to become manipulative and controlling of others. If he doesn't comply, then either slowly or swiftly, he will be side-lined, shunned and either leave the church (if he sees the light) or just sink into a normality of attendance and not be used in ministry. I'm not imagining this scenario like a fiction story; I say it because I have seen it happen to others, both men and women.
I wish that it did not happen. But if someone stays in smc and leads others, they take on the traits of the leaders and are encouraged, even trained, to do so. I know this because it has happened to me.

Re the Shares, yes, I'm sure I remember the word "million" aswell, but couldn't give an exact figure. The SMC shares crisis occurred in Autumn 1987 when the big stock-market crash happened.

Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Clive ()
Date: September 20, 2012 02:39AM

Re the Shares, yes, I'm sure I remember the word "million" aswell, but couldn't give an exact figure. The SMC shares crisis occurred in Autumn 1987 when the big stock-market crash happened.

To quote Dudley Moore in the movie Arthur : "and that was in the days when a million pounds was a lot of money"

Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: September 24, 2012 12:15AM

Hi guys

Happy Sunday!

Obviously there was a LOT of money lost when the stock market crashed and many people were, quite rightly, outraged by the betrayal although for the most part I think even those who left forgave Mr. Black his humanity. But it seems to me that many have not really learned any lessons from the disaster. The major lesson being that if you hold a human being up so high they're going to have a pretty bad fall eventually. However, SMC still seem to be giving some of the leaders a higher place in their lives than they are giving to God and, in the long run, this will eventually be disastrous again.

God commanded us to look after our spiritual lives by loving and caring and shining a light where there's darkness, are these the values held by those in power in SMC? Are they loving and caring? Do they support and encourage in times of need and despair? Are they the first to reach out to comfort a torn soul?

Far from being loving and caring these leaders prefer to ignore or shun the very ones who need some nurturing; as for support and ecourage in times of need and despair... well we all know that some of these people have been the direct cause of the need and despair in the first place; so they get a big fat ZERO for that one too and the only tool they seem to have to cover my final question is to go into some bizarre rituals of 'deliverance' tearing the soul up even more rather than mending it and blaming the individual's level of faith for the level of soul-healing they actually feel.

The gift of love is the most important gift we have, I mean love of the whole of humanity not just those we choose to love but, it seems love gets left at the doors of SMC. What passes for love is given to those deemed worthy or holy enough and those who don't conform are sidelined and ignored.

I was reminded recently of the days when there were so many people attending the Saturday night meetings in Greenock that they had to use downstairs and upstairs halls, with the sermon being piped through speakers to the upstairs hall. I wonder how many are in attendance on a Saturday night now. I also remember when they had to run two separate summer camps at Wiston Lodge because there were too many people for just one camp.

The vastly reduced membership of the church has probably been the worst blow for SMC financially, since the stock market crash, and they would probably have been in a much better postition now if they had not let down so many people so badly. There has been great harm done, over the years, to so many people and for no other reason than to try to keep control of the remaining 'loyals'. Of the remaining members who are still waiting around for the promised revival, that was crushed a long time ago by the leaders of the church and it carried on past SMC to other churches all over the world. It's still going on now if you just get out of SMC and find out the truth of what's going on around you in the real world. Young and old alike, all over the world, are celebrating their love of God and caring for and nurturing each other and, more importantly, growing in the spirit.

Those of the congregation who are actually reading this site, keep asking questions and study the biblical references for ALL claims made by your ministers and, above all, wonder about why you have been told so many lies about others, from those who are purportedly more holy than you?

As always Biiiiiiig huge hugs and love to all
God bless xxxx

Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Rensil ()
Date: September 24, 2012 07:37AM

Cbarb, I'm absolutely amazed at what you've written above that the Greenock church was once so full that they had to use both the downstairs and the upstairs halls on Saturday nights. Why were we never told this? We were told that the church, i.e. SMC, as a whole, was growing speedily in the 80s due to the influx of lots of young people. We were given the impression that the church had never been any bigger than it was when we went along at that time, and that, because it was expanding so much, they would need to start using the big downstairs church in Greenock for the Saturday nights. We were squashed like sardines in the smallish upstairs hall to listen to Miss Taylor and sometimes Mr Black. How odd (or not!) that we were never told what had happened in previous years.

Eventually they did move us downstairs to the big church. This went on for some years until the Saturday night meeting was moved to the Glasgow Church in the 90s because it had more room, but also in order to cater for folk travelling in from Falkirk, Edinburgh and Cumbernauld. I don't know what the numbers are like now, but I presume that during the time you remember, Cbarb, that most people were coming from Greenock and the surrounding areas where there were branch-churches, whereas later on and nowadays they are coming from all over the central belt.

Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: cbarb ()
Date: September 25, 2012 12:20AM

Hi Rensil

Yes, I think that the majority of the more regular people were coming from the various branch churches in the scottish areas because there were vans run by various members of the congregation to pick up people in most areas. Others would be doubling up in cars etc. (Idon't think anyone came to church with an empty seat in their car either on the way there or on the way home). [Many of these cars would be well overloaded also - which of course would be illegal now but wasn't then].

When we had our youth clubs (in the various churches) on Saturday afternoons, the folks would all be fed dinner in their branch churches, or someone's house, after the activities and then ferried in vans and cars to the Greenock church for the evening service.

Most of the guys driving the vans were doing two and three trips to get round everyone who needed picked up. Many of those in the areas further out (Falkirk, Gorebridge, Edinburgh and so on) were on the road for hours before arriving at the church in Greenock to sit through 3 hours of sermons from the platform before being ferried back home in the wee small hours of Sunday morning.

I remember how strange it was to sit in the upstairs halls (both the church hall and small hall opposite - between the ladies toilet and the main upstairs hall) listening to the sermon, being preached downstairs, through speakers. This would have been around 1974ish (give or take a year or two)

In the surrounding areas of Greenock alone people were being picked up from pretty much every area you can think of in Inverclyde and more young people were joining the branch churches on a pretty regular basis. I think there was some serious growth happening in the church at that time but the growth was abruptly stopped when the people who (I think) God had really appointed to lead the revival in SMC were uncerimoniously removed from the positions they were meant to be in. The good thing is that God doesn't sit idly by and he has moved these people on to do his work in other places.

We know that because we know these people and we've seen how God is working through them to reach out to others. We've seen their ministries flourishing and the profoundly good effect these people have on others lives. Quite a contrast from SMC.

I believe there was an opportunity for revival in the late 70's and early 80's but it was crushed because it wasn't the appointed time by Miss Taylor (who of course knew more about what God wanted than God himself). Instead of revival, as I've said previously, a whole different atmosphere entirely fell over the Greenock church, a heavy oppressive and ominous atmosphere that was extremely uncomfortable. The light and love seemed to have seeped right out of the building, people started speaking in that affected 'oh so holy' way (you know that whispering, barely disguising the condescension, way that they do) even in normal conversation with each other. Gossiping was rife among the cliques and self-flagelation became the order of the day. Eventually it even became outlawed to have some fun and joy in life; I remember the year of 'No Christmas Presents', the year of 'No Television', the year of 'No Secular Music' and no tempo other than 4:4 etc. etc. and the list grew every time you blinked.

And still they are awaiting the revival that passed them by years ago because they keep ignoring God and listening instead to a handful of weirdos who haven't got a scooby what they're talking about.

Much love and hugs to all :-)
God bless xxxx

Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: Clive ()
Date: September 25, 2012 01:15AM

I have to say, cbarb and Rensil, you two seem to have a goldmine of information and anecdotes to share

I find all your recounting of how things used to be, going back decades quite fascinating, and the latest posts very illuminating and revealing.

You also give the impression of being cool people to boot. ( But of course all that may just be a front ;) )

Here's something to ponder upon - all this confirms MY gut-feelings back in those days when I first got to encounter the SMC "lot". But thats MY gut feelings.
Presumably Mrs Taylor, Mr Black and "Lady Diana" had similar gut feelings teliing them something quite the opposite.

Should one go by one's gut or not ?

Maybe emotions, hunches, intuitions and the like really need to be tempered with a little more cold, light of day application of cold - boring - reason and - dare i say - empiricism ? - if one is not
to end up drinking the Kool Aid of movements such as this.

One question that has been bugging me, how many and which posters here are women ?

Seems clear that at the least cbarb, Rensil and Covlass are women. Don't know about ThePetitor, chester and other regulars.

I'm not. Does it show ?

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2012 01:19AM by Clive.

Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Posted by: lintar123 ()
Date: September 25, 2012 05:05AM

Thankyou C Barb and Rensil.Have had memories stirred!
Clive:- I am woman.

My time in it was from 1983. My husband was there earlier.
I was "given the once over" by Miss Taylor to make sure that I was "holy enough" to marry my dear husband, who was completely overtaken by them all.
He was HUGELY USED to provide lifts just about every night in the week.After our "wedding" , our life was not our own. We were at meetings EVERY NIGHT OF the week.Monday- Greenock. Tuesday-Glasgow. Wednesday- Cumbernauld (house meeting) Thursday-Falkirk. Friday-Glasgow. Saturday-Greenock and Sunday Glasgow (twice)
Before we married, we had NEVER gone to the pictures, out for meals or anything "normal".
We were exhausted! Physically,mentally, emotionally and psychologically. Over and above that, we were genuine people. My husband prayed every day. Every task was under the microscope of a God who didn`t let you do anything (STRUTHERS).
Our life as a young married couple was seriously affected. We were not naive, we were caught in the web.
D Rutherford had never wanted us to get married, and had made that very clear. However in 1985 when I was accused of the atrocity(previously posted), I was taken to Greenock to be prayed with to have the demons removed. None came out! That `s when I was "banned " from the Cumbernauld House meetings.
Eventually I was allowed back. We left in the early 90s. No one came near us to ask why... My husband left before me. The only contact we had was for a signature to be given to release covenant money that my husband had paid for many years. I know that there were untrue reasons given about why we left. I know that there were sermons about me , and I know that leaving Struthers was the best thing that ever happened in our life.
On our wedding day, I NEVER saw myself in a mirror.(vanity). We had no alcohol at our wedding (debauchery) and we had "tongues" at our wedding ceremony. (awful scary for family). My husband gave everything to the place, and no one came near him to ask why he had left.
Years later, I attended a funeral and a Struthers leader was there. I was completely ignored... and so was my husband.

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