Hi Penticostal

Just like you to know I was in SMC 10 years. It was the first church I was ever in. I was drawn to them because of their standard of holiness. I would still be there now, but for the terrible abuse I underwent all the time I was there. When I went there I was already saved; baptised in the Holy Spirit; reading my bible; I was living a clean life. The reasons this was my first church was the fact I came from an a abusive background that left me with wounds and weaknesses. However God saved me built me up, until I was in a state to go to church. The smc experience set me back years. I went there looking for more of God. The word cosy never entered my thinking, nor am I now looking for a cosy church. I am looking for a church that follows the word of God. I am looking for a church that will treat me like a human being, that will take me forward in God, that will show me a Godly example that I may follow. I feel heart sorry for the ones in SMC who are being decieved and abused by the leaders. There are people there who know what is going on yet pretend they don't know, I am afraid for them, they are as guilty as the leaders. Sir you really need to listen to what the people on this forum are saying.

Recent posts have been super and so clear in their explanations. Thank you to all who have contributed recently.

To Pentecostal,
re people not wanting to do what they are told in society as a whole, and the scripture which says we are to obey those who have rule over us, the problem I saw in SMC was that some people got into trouble for not doing what a leader told them, whereas others seemed to get away with things and nothing was said. I remember being told by a leader to buy some writing paper at a particular shop and to write a letter to sort something out right away, because if I didn't do this, I would affect the whole Camp in a negative way and the victory wouldn't come to the Camp. I decided not to write the letter as I felt it would make things worse, so I phoned instead. When I told the leader I'd done so, she was not pleased and let me know she wasn't pleased. And I felt guilt, showing that behind it all was manipulation and control.
However, some favourites and family members of leaders seemed to do what they liked, in trivial matters and even in large matters, whereas others got told off. Leaders should be consistent in telling members to do what they're told or to obey the leaders. But in SMC it depended on who you were. This cannot be a healthy church but an abusive one. In addition, I believe that someone of my age and intelligence would know where and how to buy writing paper! So their rules are ludicrous. The verse re the Pharisees "Straining at gnats and swallowing camels" comes to mind.

No we didn't simply look for a cosy, more accommodating church. People in SMC are genuinely and seriously seeking after a deep relationship with God. Most still do so when they leave and join another church. I know of such people and they are now free to serve God as He leads and uses them, as they are no longer held down by control of man.

Rensil

You highlight another very important point that Pentecostal made, regarding the expectation that people in Struthers should do as they are told and that the writers of this forum are simply kicking back against SMC because they dont like being told what to do.

The problem with unquestioning obedience is what happens when you are ordered to do the unquestionable? We have seen in some religious cults where people have looked the other way while a cult leader has sexually and physically abused children. We dont need to look back more than 70 years to see how the Jews were treated at the hands of the Nazis. Men who did unmentionable things to other humans because they were 'just following orders' And f we look back over the last 48 hours we see man and women giving up their life savings, jobs, homes, taking their children out of school etc because they followed the lead of a man, a self proclaimed prophet Harold Camping, who predicted the end of the world. As Clve said, he will make his excuses and try and brush it under the carpet ad some of his followers will still follow blindly on. The blind leading the blind as it were.

And so the Struthers leaders also ask ... sorry ... demand, unquestioning obedience from the people in their church. If anyone dares to question and not conform, the unqestioning remainder are ordered to ostracise them. People are hurt, families torn apart, lives are broken, some walk away from Christ forever. Among the hurting are not just those who have left SMC but those who are left behind. The families, friends, even spouses who remain in Struthers and those who leave. Perhaps they would love to ask the question, but why can't I speak to this member of my family anymore? Theyve done nothing wrong. My heart goes out to all in Struthers who can see the injustice but are too scared to question. Too scared becasue of the lies youve been fed through the years. My prayer is that you will know the truth and that the truth will set you free.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. A healthy church encourages questions, encourages believers to think things through for themselves and equips them with the ability to make godly decisions. Leaders are on hand to give advice and guidance when it is sought or needed. Healthy leaders can handle someone going against their advice and if it all goes wrong, lovingly restoring that person and helping them back on their feet, to learn from their mistakes and go on to be better and stronger Christians.

Have to admit I have a tiny bit of admiration for Mr Camping after all this shenanigans- as well as feeling a little sorry for him. I hope he doesnt commit suicide or something over this.
After all is said and done, he had some guts.

Yes its true he very arrogantly and foolishly led his vast group of followers down the path of huge financial folly, followed by embarrasment and failure, and has to answer for leading people to give up their life savings, leaving their jobs etc... but at least Harold Camping did that rarest of things in this pentecostal mad world of claim after claim after claim haplessly thrown out into the congregation without any need any careful scrutiny or reflection - he made a claim that would be testable by EVERYONE.

How convenient and - indeed COSY !!! - for struthers leaders to carry on making claim after claim after claim from their pulpit, not to mention those claims that are in fact ACCUSATIONS, where such claims are conveniently framed so as to avoid or bypass any form of scrutiny.

Expressing ones faith in God because one has found through experience that God is faithful on one thing.
To conflate this talk of faith into an implication that this should lead to unquestioning faith in ones pastor, is quite another.

Too many pentecostal church leader- s as this forum can testify to, are only too happy to play “god” with peoples lives, whether of the Camping kind or the “anointed intuition” kind - while touting a “defence” along the lines of “God will be my judge - one day I will have to answer to him” - without acknowledging in slightest - that as pastors of their flock they truly are ALSO answerable to the judgement of their fellow man.

Heres an example of another pentecostal church “gone astray” with devastating consequences. They too, have a congregation willing to obey its leaders to the utmost. The difference between this church and the SMC is merely one of degree. The same oppressive principles are at play. So far in the SMC the negative effects only go as far as marital breakups and emotional and psychological harm, but how long before some decree from “on high” actually results on an death that could have been avoided ?

Heres the link:

[www.goddiscussion.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2011 01:07AM by Clive.

Clive,

Thankfully there are many churches like the one I attend, where one can worship, free of such wanton misuse of scripture and pastoral authority.

To pray in the name of Jesus is to specifically claim authority from God for something. It is stating that Jesus himself has put the “rubber stamp” on ones request.

Pentecostal pastors and faith healers who continually use the Name Of Jesus as part of their public intercession, and especially those that then go on to declare that such a prayer has been answered ( the implication of course being answered in the AFFIRMATIVE ie YES )
are guilty of blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

We christians should be a little more careful as to what exactly we HAVE the authority to ask for and what we do not.

Yes, sure - Jesus said ( i’m paraphrasing ) “wherever two or more of you are gathered in one place and ask something of the Father IN MY NAME” it shall be done” , but we should remember this was to a specific collection of his followers who were being personally instructed by the Lord on their mission. THEY alone had that authority - that NAME, because jesus was specifically addressing THEM.

For sure, many christians through the ages also had that authority - that NAME - to ask for something, even healing. But no one - contrary to what populist pentecostal preachers like to tell you - has a carte blanche right to claim use of his NAME for any petition,
REGARDLESS of whether the prayer is done out of selfishness or compassion.

This - i believe is the root of much folly and dare I say it - blasphemy in todays Church - whether of the Camping kind, or the Pentecostal “name it claim it, believe and it shall be so” kind.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2011 01:39AM by seekingsusan.

SeekingSusan,

Forgive me but I really don’t understand what your comments on “In Jesus’ Name” etc have to do with either SMC or Camping.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2011 07:08AM by Clive.

Questions for any Struthers members or leaders reading this Forum:

If you have nothing to hide why have you stopped making podcasts of Saturday night sermons available? Nearly every other Christian church, especially pentecostal and evangelical ones, now makes sermons available via podcast. Or do you not really want people out there to listen, visit the church and then start attending it?

Why have you in the last month or so bombarded the web with multiple links to Struthers church, so that google or other searches bring up the many web-links, some of which don't contain much information, including the church's Flickrpools and Flickrrivers? Why are you so keen for people all over the world to view photos taken by Struthers members? Photos of your church buildings and your youth activities. I hope permission was sought of everyone who is in these photos including the parents of children and teenagers in the photos. I got access easily with a couple of mouse clicks. Do you not know that criminals prowl around the web looking for photos of minors?

Could it be that you do have something to hide and you are desperately trying to stop people from clicking onto Rick Ross's Cult Education website and in so doing, to see the truth? It isn't having any effect, judging by the number of visits made to this Forum.

Quote
Rensil
Could it be that you do have something to hide and you are desperately trying to stop people from clicking onto Rick Ross's Cult Education website and in so doing, to see the truth? It isn't having any effect, judging by the number of visits made to this Forum.

Actually this is probably why we see so few struthers people posting here to defend their pastors. Even if pro-SMC members wanted to post here they have been persuaded by their leaders or someone who knows the web - that doing so will just increase traffic stats pointing to to this site - and thus keep the google link to RickRoss high up the list.

My bet is that people have been told not even to read anything on this site for the same reason.

Plus also the embarrassment/irritation of continually seeing their sermons analysed and critiqued on the Latigo214 web site of course!.

Whats this Latigo214?

The problem with the Capping issue is that false prophesy causing severe ridicule globally and therefore much damage. We see ridicule from the "name it and claim it" preachers, and now this guy, who is still going on about it being October 21st. Hope its not, as my birthday is not far after that, and I want some presents.

So, although I feel a bit for the chap, I think he is just part of the problem, where people in power think that God is only talking to them, and surely all those worthy of rapture should have also been told the secret, personally.

Still life goes on eh?