Ooh this is too much fun to resist - especially when I'm meant to be doing something else altogether with my time!! I looked up 1980s Dukes of Hazard. MW89, assuming you are meaning Sorrell Booke - then yes - I can definitely see the likeness! Great fun.

(BTW - I had to look it up, not due to poor memory, but because I had no idea who anyone would look like who was in the Dukes of Hazard.
Why? TV and cinema was banned for the 1960s and 1970s SMC born-into generations!!!
And since my childhood was pre-Alison Speirs era, there was absolutley no consideration, did not cross any parent's mind in my household, that there could be a workaround of still "not having a TV in the house" but watching plenty contemporary children's / family programmes by home video (updated for later generations to include iplayer etc etc) )

Going back to the Black family - two thought have come to mind -

Firstly, Mrs Black being at home as a homemaker was absolutely the norm for professional family mothers in Greenock. In my class of 30, I can remember there was one lawyer mother, and otherwise, a few shop assistant mothers. I have no memory of my peers' mothers working until high school.

Second memory - the Black girls - did you know they released a singing single at some point? Don't know if it was in the 60s or 70s. We had it (of course). A small black 6"" vinyl. Does that say anything substantial about Mr Black's belief in his family's, his church's exceptionalism?

RedRoad, I can answer some of your questions about Mrs Black. As I said already, I used to chat to her quite a bit and she loved to talk, which was another trait which Mr B criticised her for (publicly). She had a background in the Church of Scotland and she met her husband at High School in Greenock. She told me that at the Senior School Dance, he had danced with her for every dance. I’m surprised that he had been allowed to attend School Dances since he came from a strict Brethren background. However, School Dances back then used to consist of ceilidh dancing with an accompanying band or orchestra, nothing like the dark, noisy discos of later eras and the girls wearing revealing clothing.

Mrs Black trained as a Special Needs teacher (excuse my term as the pc brigade keep changing titles these days and it’s hard to keep up). Mrs Black was very clever, but because Mr B was interested in marrying her, she did not attend university because this would have entailed a high cost for her parents. She told me all of this. So she got married, I believe during the Second World War, and daughter Alison was born a year or so later. It seems to have been quite a simple wedding and she wore a dress-suit and not a bridal dress. There’s a photo of the newly married couple in the memorial booklet about Hugh Black and in the memorial book about Mary Black.

You’re right, RedRoad, that most women stayed at home in that era and looked after their children and did the housekeeping. But I think Mrs Black was left at home more than most. I think she told me that she did return to do some teaching after the girls were older.

Liz25, I didn’t know that she had been publicly rebuked by her husband for “backsliding”. More likely she’d been depressed and got into a spiral of low self-esteem and feelings of inferiority. He wouldn’t understand that, of course. That explains why I sensed that she had a low self-worth and tended to stay in the background.
I didn’t know about the music single, RedRoad. Mary had a strong, high singing voice, as does Alison, whom I agree is a very gifted piano player.

I have been asked to post the following:

Hugh Blair Black, was born on 22 July 1922 6.35pm at Auchenfoyle Farm, Kilmacolm. His parents were John Black, farmer and Mary Speirs Black (Maiden Surname Orr). They were married on 24th November 1904 in Kilmacolm.

Hugh was married on 8 July 1943 by J G Lamond, Registrar, at the Registry Office, Blythswood Glasgow.

Details were:
Hugh Blair Black farmer, age 20 of Auchenfoyle Farm, Kilmacolm
Isobel Baxter Mitchell Wright School teacher, age 22 of 62 Dunlop Street, Greenock.

Hugh’s parents John Black, farmer (deceased) and Mary Speirs Orr
Mary’s parents John Wright, boot repairer and Grace Harley Macrae

Witnesses were John Black, Auchenfoyle farm and Mary J G Campbell 112 Mearns St Greenock. (Hugh was the last of nine children. He had a brother John, born in 1913.)

Children were:
* Alison Harley BLACK born 21 May 1944 at 9 Grosvenor Street, Edinburgh. Father Hugh is recorded as a farmer and gives usual address as 18 Bentinck St, Greenock.
* Mary Orr BLACK born 13 June 1946 in Bentinck St, Greenock. Father Hugh’s occupation was listed as farmer.
* Grace BLACK born 22 May 1949 18 Bentinck St, Greenock, Father Hugh is recorded as an Art Student.


Mary did not marry and died on 13 Sept 2004 at 27 Denholm St, Greenock due to bronchopneumonia and carcinomatosis. Her father Hugh’s occupation was recorded as Head Teacher and he was deceased by this time. Her mother Isobel is recorded as a retired secondary school teacher.

Hugh died on 18 April 2001 at 27 Denholm St, Greenock. His cause of death was myocardial Infarction and Ischaemic heart disease, together with congestive heart failure. He was aged 78, a retired school headteacher.

His widow Isobel died on 18 Feb 2011 of bronchopneumonia and Alzheimer’s disease at Newark care Home, Southfield Avenue, Port Glasgow. She was a retired secondary school teacher of Additional Learning Needs. Her usual residence was 27 Denholm St Greenock.

All very interesting thank you, RedRoad, Rensil and FriendlyFace.
I often wonder, and wondered in the past too if Mr B was happy in the end that 2 of his daughters didn’t marry. It was mostly his doing, from what we heard from Mary’s testimony.
I also thought it would have been good if he’d had a strong son to combat some of the extreme teachings.
When he was dying, Mary was with him and she told later she’d said ‘I’m coming with you!’ as he slipped away. Sadly she did, not too long after.

I'm sure I heard that Mr Black told Mary she did not need medical treatment for her cancer as God would cure her. Pretty sad if that is true.

I hope Mrs Black got to enjoy a number of peaceful years with her remaining 2 daughters and granddaughter, perhaps with a more "normal" family dynamic and lesser quantities of ego to deal with.

Liz, re your musing that it may have been good if Mr Black had had "a strong son to counter some of the extreme teachings", I would put a relatively high probability to any son of his being estranged by the age of 18. Mr Black in-school violence with the belt has been anecdotally recounted to me by persons who did not know I had a SMC background. Mr Black himself seemed to relish recounting stories of how he had administered vast quantities of belting. I know what happened re child discipline in several SMC families and that Mr Black had so advised such strategy, even to be applied to the girls. I cannot see Mr Black's ego tolerating any son to have a difference of opinion on spiritual matters. When I look around the families I grew up with, it was normally the sons who left the church first, often being estranged from their parents in the process.

Circling back to your post above, Rensil, about Mrs Black's background and how she met Mr Black, it was very informative and does illustrate the cheeriness and openness of Mrs Black which I do remember. FF's list of dates shows there to be a 2 year differential between them, with Mrs Black the senior. It seems then, there was a reasonably long courtship between school and marriage, with of course the complications of WW2 thrown in.

Brethren in the WW2 era were conscientious objectors, and I know of other Brethren families in the area who tell tales of the social disapproval their grandfathers were subjected to at the time and followed them in the next decade or so in their workplaces, for refusing to take part in active service.

There were exemption for farmers after the age of 21, but interestingly, not before that age. I do remember some guarded barbs among the oldest men of the congregation about Mr Black not having been willing to serve. I don't remember him saying he was part of the domestic ambulance service or an alternative form of national service. I'm sure we all would have heard tales galore if that had been the case. This all seems quite curious to me now when I think of him quoting Winston Churchill verbatim in other stories or when looking for a quote to reinforce a spiritual principle.

I couldn't believe my eyes reading that Mr Black had attended the Senior Dance and danced every dance with Mrs Black. There was more than one set of siblings in SMC families who had to run the gauntlet of being questioned each December, with what felt at the time to be the most excruciating social embarrassment, as to why they were not allowed to attend the Christmas school dance, which only had Scottish Country Dancing. Was that a humiliation that was not actually required? Did parents somehow misunderstand the SMC rules of "not being of the world"?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2026 03:27AM by RedRoad.

Thanks for all the interesting info, FriendlyFace.

ThePetitor, Mary Black did not receive her cancer diagnosis until after her father had passed away. But she had been ill for some time before his death and she made this public at one or more Saturday night meetings. It was at one of these meetings that she said her father had told her that the devil was attacking her with ill health and she would have to fight him off.

After her father died in 2001, the whole burden of leadership of the Struthers movement fell upon her which had been his wish. She told us publicly that she was not going to seek medical tests for the time-being because the work of the church including the Summer Camps came first. The problem was that when she did go and have medical tests done, cancer was diagnosed. And not just cancer, but advanced cancer. She had to have surgery and then chemo and radiotherapy. It was very sad to witness this happening to a woman in her 50s, regardless of the spiritual abuses going on within the church. She never regained her health because the cancer returned and she passed in 2004. It was during this whole situation that Alison Speirs was given more and more responsibility for the Glasgow Church and the Greenock youth work.

I am not betraying any secrets here. All of what was said was spoken in public at church meetings. There will be recordings of those meetings somewhere.
What a danger there is when people spiritualise illness and refuse to seek medical help but keep praying for healing or trying to “fight the devil”.

RedRoad, I’m sure Mrs Black did enjoy some happy years with her two remaining daughters and granddaughter. She was suffering from Alzheimer’s of course, but I think it caused her to be less inhibited, which might explain why she told me the account of the School Dance. People loved to hear her recount past experiences.
It IS strange about the School Dance because, you’re right, dances were not allowed for Struthers members nor for their offspring. Maybe an act of rebellion?

I've made the point before but will make it again:

One of the things history teaches us is that those that are most outspoken and fervent in preaching against sin in others, are often the worst offenders. Most of this of course takes place in private so as not to break the 'holiness' illusion.

I always thought that HB bore more than a passing resemblance to Boss Hogg. Being morbidly obese, he was unable to control his own excesses but continued to rail about the splinter in everyone else's eye. Pure out-and-out hypocrisy that was left unchecked. A massive ego that not only gorged on food but his insatiable appetite for the stage. What a performer!

Rensil, thanks for the details about Mary Black’s illness. All interesting detail.

One of the sad things (apart from what appears to be an unnecessary early death) is that there were many adults who had real life experiences, good and bad, that others could have learned from. It is really disappointing that the leaders were so afraid of anyone being “corrupted” by anything, including other churches, global evangelists (was there not a story posted here about someone getting chastised from the pulpit for attending a Lius Palau rally?) and even their own, more experienced members.

Had the leaders encouraged conversations between sensible older Christians and the younger less experienced folk, that might have helped people develop into much more mature and robust individuals.

Think of the Amish who encourage (force even? I am not sure) their young people to go out into the world for two years to experience the alternative lifestyle it offers. Most of these young people of course then return to the Amish community because they recognise what the Amish culture has to offer.

That is having confidence in what you have. Giving people the choice.

The Stuthers approach is the opposite, stopping people from having any other experience at all, because they (rightly, as it happens) believe that having other experiences is likely to lead to a realisation that what Struthers offers does not live up to its promises.

While thinking of that, just out of interest, is there still the “God is going to use us to bring revival” line, or has that, like the use of hats, quietly slipped away? Hmmmm. I seem to remember a verse about being able to judge prophets by whether their prophesies came true.

On another note, I heard recently that one of the people in a senior position in Struthers is a Doctor. I wonder how they reconcile their practice with the Struthers approach?

In the surgery:
Patient: I am in serious pain. It all started when you gave me these pills.

Doctor: Oh, that is not so good. Stop taking these pills immediately. We will have to get to the bottom of this and see if we can work out what is wrong. It is only when we understand what is wrong that we will be able to help. I will arrange some tests by experts. You may need some different treatment.


In the church:
Member of the congregation: I am in serious pain. It all started when you gave me these pills.

Leader: That is clearly your fault, you are clearly not swallowing them properly. Here are more of the same pills. I think you should double the dose. Whatever you do, do not get anything examined by anyone else. They might tell you that something is wrong and you need some different treatment.

@ThePetitor

You’re talking about what should have or could have happened.

But this was never, ever possible.
It wasn’t miscommunication.
It wasn’t “well-intentioned but flawed.”

It was control.

The pages of this thread testify to that.

Fear from the platform.
“Discernment” used as accusation without evidence.
Public humiliation rebranded as correction.
People frozen out. Cut off. Erased.
Confession weaponised.
Questioning treated as rebellion against God.

That is not spiritual leadership. It is authoritarianism with a Bible verse attached.

And here’s what makes this indefensible:

This thread has existed for over twenty years (sixteen in earnest). Page after page of consistent, detailed accounts of harm.

Not one public acknowledgment.
Not one apology.
Not one act of repair.

Nothing.

Not reflection.
Not dialogue.
Not ownership.

At this point it isn’t even about theology. It’s about the complete absence of basic human decency.

Silence in the face of sustained harm is not neutrality.
It is indifference.

And that indifference is the legacy.

Not the conferences.
Not the platforms.
Not the singing.

This.