Hello
First time posting. Found forum such a relief when I discovered I wasn’t alone in what I suffered. A few comments having listened to ‘New Year word 2026’
I believe that leadership have a fixed mindset and unable to discern their abusive behaviour patterns. Example from NY word: confusing loyalty to Christ with loyalty to Struthers and to their leadership. A secure leadership do not demand absolute loyalty. Just so dangerous and sad to see this controlling behaviour masked within, what would otherwise be, a word of encouragement.

Hello Myrtle -- and welcome to this Forum! I'm very glad that like so many others (including myself) you have found that you are not alone. Although I rarely post nowadays, I do check in now and again out of interest and also a misplaced hope that there might even yet be real change in SMC. Listening to the New Year Word dashed those hopes yet again. The ongoing lack of good Biblical exegesis is so discouraging -- such a mishmash of unrelated Scripture texts plucked out of context and strung together like mismatched beads on a string, as well as the recurring mantra encouraging total loyalty to the Powers That Be and, as you say, mistakenly identifying such loyalty with loyalty to Christ. Your phrase "a fixed mindset" is so apt. One of the reasons it saddens me so much is that I know there are still folk in the church who truly belong to Christ and are not only being misled but starved of the true Gospel in all its fullness. As one of the Puritans once said: "The hungry sheep look up and are not fed". Blessings on you -- I do hope you have found all the help, support and healing you may need.

Thank you for your welcome to this forum and your comments.
I half hope the current leadership read posts on this forum and will take seriously the genuine concerns we hold. I’m not here to attack but with a plea that external support in pastoral care training and theological biblical exegesis training be seen as important.
One pastoral care issue I have and would love reassurance that no longer occurs is the following, telling someone they, ‘ had a demon’ and saying the person knew what caused this and person hadn’t a clue. This is spiritual abuse. For sensitive people this also causes symptoms of ptsd! This is serious and I’m not sure those involved have grasped this yet. I hate to think others are still being abused in this way. Linked with this I hope that churches where those who left, linked with AS, have been contacted to flag up issues. Maybe I’m posting on here what I need to put in writing and send directly to be leadership team?!

Welcome Myrtle ,

I am SO glad you have found this forum . I am a long term poster ... and I am one of the many people who was accused of having a " demon " . I was accused of many things ..which took me a great deal of time to recover from .

See previous posts .

40 years later ... I still feel for all the vulnerable genuine people who are churned up by them .

I cannot fully comprehend HOW they still function . I fear for the young , innocent and genuine people caught in their trap, for money and time and control . The suffering they csused me will NEVER be forgotten ..

Stay strong and find the way forward that God has for you , and your loved ones in this world .

Just wondering if anyone is aware of what the church is like in its current state. Has their been any significant growth or loss? Just curious.

Hi Myrtle, Welcome to the forum, and thanks for your comment (and yours Phoebe) on the New Year Word. As I said in an earlier post:

Quote
The Petitor p201
Amazing Grace – thanks for the excerpts from the recent sermon. This stuff really is so bizarre. Where in the Bible does it say, “This is the trick of the enemy …to lose confidence in the leaders”? It is amazing the Struthers have found this “truth” that has not been discovered by any of the great Christian thinkers down the centuries.

That is of course because it is not only unscriptural, it is the opposite of many, many passages in the Bible where the leaders are leading people astray. The Bible is really clear about this, it says time and time again that you DO NOT blindly follow your leaders. Members of Struthers, a great deal of the preaching is exactly the opposite of what scriptures say. You have to decide which you will believe - leaders who show none of the fruits of the spirit and fail the scriptural test for a prophet, or the Word of God as revealed through the Bible. It is no longer possible to say you do both when so much teaching is in conflict with scripture.

Myrtle, you are like so, so many others who have found it such a relief when you discovered you weren’t alone in what you suffered. That seems to be the most common opening comment that people make here, and that is of course no co-incidence as Struthers paints themselves as the universal truth and anyone one who disagrees is the odd one out. This is so far from the truth it is laughable.

They are of course trying to ingratiate themselves with other more mainstream organisations these days, but even that they can only do by lying.

Don’t believe me? Ok, loyal MSC member, trying going along to another church and saying “we had a great sermon on Sunday, it was all about how we should obey the leaders of Struthers and how the reason everything is so bad is because Satan tricks us into disobeying the leaders.” I do not believe one person reading this forum would do that, because they know fine that what is being spouted from the pulpit is wrong: they are not going to embarrass themselves by letting people in other churches know what really goes on.

Lintar, your question about how they still function with all this nonsense is really interesting. It certainly is not because “God’s work done in God’s way will never want God’s supply (as Hudson Taylor said) as we know it is not God’s work (easily judged by verses like, “by this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love, one for another”) it is not being done in God’s way (see things like Pauline’s letter with all the Scripture references and the reply with none) and it does indeed want in supply (hence the closing of the bookshops and the school).

It seems to me that one of the reasons it does survive in spite of all that is that folk in the pews are quite happy to simply waste away because they have been battered so much by all this “you must obey your leaders” nonsense that they have given up the fight. Both the leaders and those in the pews say that others ought to examine their own lives and beliefs, but do not do so themselves.

There is also the related question of how the leaders can carry on doing what they are doing in terms of deliberately ignoring the harm they cause. I think the answer to that is fairly simple: they have hardened their hearts. I could quote hundreds of verses to tease that out, but it is clear from the Bible that hardening of hearts or having a heart of stone is always a bad thing and a heart of flesh with compassion, empathy and understanding is always a good thing.

Psalm 109v16 for example talks of evil enemies whose memory should be cut off from the earth, the reason being, “For he never thought of doing a kindness, but hounded to death the poor and the needy and the broken-hearted.” That verse, along with hundreds of others, makes it clear that just not thinking about doing a kindness is a terrible sin.

So, here is a pretty easy question to answer – are the leaders thinking of doing a kindness to those on this forum? Of course not, nothing could be further from their hearts and minds.

To take a New Testament example, what about the poor beggar called Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16v19-31? That passage does not say the rich man inflicted any hurt upon Lazarus, it is just that the rich man (the unnamed rich man, I suspect because any memory of him was, as described in the Psalm above, being cut off from the earth) failed to think of doing a kindness to Lazarus. Same stuff: not acknowledging the pain of others. Hardness of heart.

The leaders cannot just sidestep this. Apart from anything else, if what they claim to believe is true, then they will have to face this on the day of judgement. I used to think the leaders were Chrisitan who had made a few mistakes, but I now see a hardness of heart that God may not forgive. I genuinely am not sure what their fate will be.

If you are still in Struthers, read your Bible. Do not listen to the rubbish about how the first and greatest commandment is to obey your leaders. Read your Bible. Read how you are meant to care for others – these commands do not just apply to your cozy little circle of friends, they apply to others, including those on this forum. Think of doing someone a kindness. Today. Now. Post a message saying how sorry you are for the hurt others have suffered. Drop someone here a PM asking if they want to meet for coffee. Honour someone on this forum by speaking of their contributions and virtues. Yup, now. Do it. Do someone here a kindness. If you cannot do that, what on earth does your faith mean? You may say, “that is not my responsibility” but yes, it is. If you are a Christian, it is your responsibility to “love one another”. You are commanded to love one another, to think of doing someone a kindness, to be your brother’s keeper. So please do not go to any meetings this weekend until you have done this.

You cannot argue, “well I would, but people might misunderstand, or they may be consequences or I am not going to do the right thing because of ‘the greater good’ or ‘it is not really a kindness to be kind to people’ .”

None of these carry any weight in scripture. They are all just pathetic excuses. What carries weight in scripture is to obey the commandments, and the greatest commandments are love God and to love other as you love yourself. So please, do it. Do someone on this forum a kindness. Today. Now. If you are reading this and call yourself a Christian, reach out to someone. Show compassion. Be kind. Show that you can love another as you love yourself.

What is stopping you? I can only think of one reason, fear of the leaders. Will you really put that in front of a clear scriptural command?

By the way, did you know that there is only one time in the whole Bible that you are challenged to be better than other people? Every other command is about being good and doing good things, only once is there a command to outdo other people.

It can be found in Romans 12v10 and I reference it above: “outdo one another in showing honour”. That is what we are meant to do.

I do try to honour every single person on this forum and will right now say thank you all, even those I disagree with, for coming forward to share your experiences, hopes and fears. I will also try to honour you all in a practical way by responding to any points that are made, whether I agree with them or not. I am not going to pretend I agree with everything, as being dishonest is hardly a way to honour people, and I will call out hypocrisy and bad doctrine, but I will at least give you the curtesy of replying to points raised.

Is it a shame that Stuthers sympathisers are not willing to return that curtesy (in spite of the command to outdo one another in showing honour). A number of Struthers sympathisers have come on here over the years to ask questions of others, but are not prepared to answer questions that are asked of them.

The first of these was anon201062, who at one point said,

Quote
anon201062 on p2 of this forum
For one every critic of the leadership of struthers I could produce easily and willingly 50 who would be able to tell how the guidance of the leaders has helped them to break them free, find god, heal them.

I am still waiting for this person to come back and name the now 120 or more * 50 = 6,000 people to willingly tell of how the guidance of the leaders has helped them. It is simply dishonest to make a statement like that then walk away and not respond as evidence to the contrary builds up. That is not showing honour to those who asked you to justify your statements, it is showing contempt.

Most recent was BlessedChild who came on here on p202 of this forum, raised points, got a response but didn’t have the common decency to respond to questions he or she was then asked. (I suspect it was Diana herself and she though everyone would grovel before her superior knowledge because that is what she has come to expect from the sycophants fed on a strict diet of obedience to leaders, but then had no idea how to respond when actually questioned, but who knows.) Whoever it was, it was the same tired formula, “I will ask the questions, I will tell you what God is saying, you are not allowed to ask questions.”

Clearly not a kind person who thinks of others but, whoever it is, I will still honour them by doing my best to answer their points if they come back on and at least attempt to respond to points raised. But it is appallingly bad manners - and evidence that they do not actually think about others - when they come on here with their questions for others but no show no interest in responding when they are questioned.

I feel for those here that are broken.If you feel a need to experience the love of God, I can recommend listening to preachers like Martin Reén (https://martinreen.libsyn.com/). He has written books, too, available online like the Burning Love of Jesus Christ. He had a broken past but the love of God healed him. Now he preaches and ministers in many countries abroad.

Also the Fatherheart Ministries (https://fatherheart.net/events-by-region/events-in-europe/) has helped countless of people get healed from their wounds and discover Father God's love.

All the best for each one if you're still a Christian, in your journey.

BlessedChild, thank you for your response. I am not familiar with these resources, but it is good to know there are things that may help individuals on their journey, and it is good of you to provide this info.

Whenever I am presented with any sort of answer or solution, there is however a question I like to ask to help me understand what is going on. That question is, “what problem is this solution trying to solve?”

In this case, it seems like the problem that is being addressed is how to help someone who is struggling with their relationship with God, or perhaps struggling with life and wondering how to build their relationship with God so as to better understand and manage life.

I am not trying to put words into your mouth here, just trying to clarify the kind of problem that your advice and these resources are designed to address. You yourself start by saying, “if you feel a need to experience the love of God... ” so I am hoping that you will agree that this is the kind of problem that you are addressing here: the problem of people who feel a need to experience the love of God.

That sort of struggle in a personal journey can certainly be a thing, and the resources you mention may well be useful to someone in that position.

But - who says that is the problem?

That is one of the huge blind spots in Struthers, they always see the problem as lying with the individuals who have been in their care, never ever with themselves as leaders.

This is like a Doctor saying “yes, I know lots of patients died, but that is because they were bad patients” or a teacher saying, “yes I know all my class failed their exams, but that is because they were bad students.” If you were a doctor or teacher and there was a huge failure rate would you not want to explore it and find out what was happening?

Sure, if a student is struggling, one option is to point them to tutors that could help them, but if there are hundreds whom you might ordinarily expect to succeed yet who are all failing, surely a more important thing is to identify and correct the bad teaching. If dozens of people are dying in a care home, would there be an investigation into have the residents behaved or into the management and staff?

Why is it the leader of the church could say to her flock (most of whom have been around for decades) that, “you are but a child and cannot cope with the onslaught of the enemy. You think too highly of yourself” (see my post on p201). What sort of ministry leads to that sort of outcome? Apart from anything else, is that not an admission that there is something that needs investigated?

So that is my question – does the problem that needs solved really lie with the individuals concerned, or is there a responsibility on the leadership of SMC?

I have read that there are over 7,000 verses in the Bible about human justice and how to treat others. What if the real problem here is not the individuals, but the lack of any real desire for justice in the Struthers system? As I read the testimonies on this site, I do not see people saying, “Please help me, I feel the need to experience the love of God”, I see people saying, “Please help me, I have been treated badly and there is a lack of justice in this situation.” Reading the resources you suggest, even if they are brilliant, will not help resolve that problem.

God requires us to care for each other, to bring justice and love to the world. There are thousands of verses about that, from “What does the Lord require of you… ” to, “by this shall all men know that you are my disciples… ” and “a new commandment I give unto you… ” and there are of course lots of stories as well. Esther for example was not called to “experience the love of God” she was called to take action to restore justice, and the prophets called people to repent, not to have an experience.

So while you see the only possible problem being the need to experience something, others see the problem as those who have caused the pain, hurt and trauma failing to open their eyes to the Biblical call to work for justice.

This is not difficult, and should not be controversial. Look at examples of how things have gone wrong in other churches, in the Post Office, in the Hillsborough disaster and other such sad occasions.

If you met someone who had lost their livelihood and spent years in prison due to the injustice of the Post Office debacle, or who had lost a relative in the Hillborough disaster, what sort of reaction do you think you would get if you said, “Forget about all that injustice, I can help you feel better”. That is not what these people and their families want. What they want is an acknowledgement that there is an issue and a willingness to look into it honestly and openly. They want to be treated not as the problem but as a source of information and insight; they want leaders to admit they are not perfect and that people have been hurt, to say openly that leaders do have some responsibility in these matters and that they consequently want to make amends.

In some cases, the people affected by the events listed above are no longer even alive, yet relatives still fight for justice. How can offering support to help how people are feeling resolve that situation? Clearly it cannot, yet family and friends fight on. Why do they do that? Because of their (God-given) sense of justice, not because they want to feel something.

There is an opportunity here. I do welcome the fact you have responded and I value the response you made, and there may as a result be a chance to start to move things forward here.

Any meaningful response must however address the main point, which is that the doctor carries a responsibility if the patient become worse instead of better. Simply sending the patient elsewhere with no attempt to examine whether there has been any sort of mis-diagnosis or maladministration of treatment is an abdication of responsibility. It is unbiblical and does not satisfy the God-given human desire for justice.

Including those who have not posted here, there are hundreds of people who have been hurt by some of the teaching and actions of SMC. There has to be some acknowledgement that this is not always the fault of the student. The teacher has to recognise their responsibility and work to identify and resolve any issues, not just tell the student to seek help.

My personal belief is much of this could have been solved at the time with a bit of humility, empathy and vulnerability, and much could still be solved with that approach. It is however never going to go away if leaders always want to take the speck from the eyes of others while not acknowledging the log in their own eye.

I’m aware this post veers-off from recent input.
I had the occasion to meet some Struthers people recently and it was good. I was very happy about that.
This caused me to reflect on why I left and why I continue to have no regrets at having done so. I’ve also had a couple of discussions with others who left.

I had deep experiences in SMC until the financial scandal. Something at that point opened my eyes and there was no going back. Seeing how leaders swooped round to keep you in the flock and hearing myself make promises of loyalty I didn’t believe in.
Thereafter Mr B took us down various routes where I did not feel the spirit: Toronto blessing, Slaying in the spirit etc
I hated that era.
AS then appeared and changed everything even more. Not for the better IMO
I didn’t ever again sense that deep awe of my first experience there in 1979.

Why then did I stay until 2005?
It’s a bit of an extreme comparison but I’ve just watched a documentary about the kidnapping of the 14year old Elizabeth Smart. When she was eventually found and the policeman asked her if she was Elizabeth, she could not answer out of fear as her kidnappers were standing beside her. He had to move her a distance away before she could respond. That’s a bit like being stuck in a system which has taken over your whole existence. You have to distance yourself and test the waters elsewhere, baby steps at first. I don’t just mean in other churches. I got a lot of support from colleagues and non church friends with regard to my children and dealing with life as a working, commuting mum.
Relationships ‘with the world’ as we were taught turned out to be very practical and helpful and the opposite of bad.
I’d hope that if any others are in the situation I found myself in, they might find this helpful.
The biggest ‘wrong’ in the teaching is that you will be ‘lost’ if you leave your high calling, which of course was to be in SMC.
It’s not true.

Hi everyone and I hope this year will be a good one for you all. As always, I have greatly enjoyed reading all the recent posts.

Welcome to BloomingOrchid and Myrtle. You’ve certainly done the right thing in getting yourselves out of Struthers.

Myrtle, I agree with your findings about this year’s New Year Word sermon by Diana Rutherford. Nothing seems to have changed in their teaching. As you mention, loyalty to the church and its leaders is paramount even if there is wrongdoing, seems to be the gist of the message. Diana recalls a time of crisis in Struthers (which I know to be the financial scandal of 1987) when Mary Black said that all that mattered was loyalty, to the church and to the leaders. Those who left the church at this time were labelled as disloyal whilst those who stayed were said to be loyal- despite the fact that wrong handling of church finances had been carried out. That is cult-like behaviour. Sorry if you think that’s extreme, but it is just what happens in a cult. You have to be loyal to the leader(s) at all costs. That’s how indoctrination is carried out.

Re that same New Year sermon, did anyone notice how Diana said she could feel Mr Black ministering through her as she was ministering under the anointing? That is at best a bit creepy and at worst is unbiblical. I know she feels Miss Taylor sometimes too. What’s that all about?!(rhetorical question).

Another comparison Diana made was to compare the arrival of John the Baptist and the kingdom of God suffering violence as a result, with the recent stormy waters which have affected Struthers. So, according to this comparison, Struthers is just like the kingdom of God and has suffered violence, ie criticisms, folk leaving including leaders and sub-leaders, this Forum, all the recent attacks on Struthers. Now, she says, there will be a great calm, just like when Jesus got up in the boat and calmed the stormy sea. Well, I know that this Forum will not be turning calm any time soon. We will continue to present the truth and to encourage folk to get out of SMC and to help them in their recovery.

Liz25, I know where you’re coming from. A lot of us ask, Why did we not leave sooner? Mainly due to fear, guilt if we left, and the concept that there is no other viable church out there where we could move to. It’s part of psychological indoctrination. It’s what happens to people when they’re manipulated, coerced, and believe in those who are in charge. Then it becomes more comfortable to stay and it requires courage to decide to leave and then to do it. As you say, our eyes get opened when we realise what normal living is like out there amongst normal people, either believers or unbelievers. Yes, it’s basically the same principles as you mention re Elizabeth Smart, that keep you in a toxic church. I will write more on this in a later post.
Bye for now!