Hey, Liz25’, yes I remember that day-conference at Castle Levan. Did it not take place on the Friday night aswell or on the Sunday? I can’t quite remember. How rude indeed, for a Christian minister to be so disrespectful to hotel staff. I didn’t attend; oops, once a backslider always a backslider! lol! We were encouraged to buy the tape-recordings of the meetings if we hadn’t been at the conference, which I did. It was meant to be about spiritual warfare. You’re right, there wasn’t much said about territorial spirits but the subject scared me a bit. Mr Black didn’t give clear explanations about or examples of territorial spirits and how to deal with them, but he did want us to believe in them. It’s another example of Struthers members being expected to believe something just because a main leader believes in it and has read a book about it. Everyone had to believe in it and read the particular book. There was no thinking for oneself.

I don’t remember much being said in preaching about the subject after this conference. Maybe there was pushback from the other leaders.

Did the belief that the Glasgow Church building was haunted or “shadowed by evil” when Struthers first took possession of it, come from that teaching about territorial spirits? Perhaps. Many lanes and old buildings in Glasgow are indeed haunted. That’s well-known. (I realise people have different views on that subject). Anyway, the story was that Grace Gault and Diana Rutherford went to pray around the Glasgow church and cleared all the evil shadowing away. After that, we were told, there was no hindrance to the Holy Spirit coming and filling the building and the people who worshipped in it.

What do others think or remember about this?

I was reading Titus this morning and came across the following:

Quote
Titus 1v6
An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient

I was just wondering about the last part of that, the expectation that the children of leaders should at least show respect for their parents and the path they tread. We obviously have statements on this forum that claim the children of some of the youth leaders we bullies. These claims are not just vague, but are backed up with specific incidences.

Whether the Struthers movement calls these “youth leaders” elders or not, they clearly are elders in a Biblical sense.

So… were they asked to step down form this role? Should it even have needed someone to ask them? If they are reading this now, should they not realise they cannot be in a position of authority and step back?

It made me wonder about how many “leaders” in Struthers have had children whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

Are there ANY?

If we count up the figures of authority in the church we get to something like thirty.

Original trustees: 6
Highest number of branch leaders: 12 at one point?

Current Trustees: 6
Current branch leaders: 6?

Other “elders” – those in charge of youth and/ or who preach once a month: 6?

If all this is added up you get say 35-40, but there will of course be some overlap so, I don’t know, 30 perhaps? Of these, how many have all their children who “believe and are not (or, if they are not older, were not) open to the charge of being wild and disobedient”?

Three elders perhaps, so 10% of the total? Are there even that many? I do not know, but it would be interesting for someone to compile a list of those in positions of authority and how many meet even this simple Biblical standard.

Don't get me wrong, bringing up children is not easy and I do not think there is a formula that works every time (I much prefer the idea of "good enough" parenting that professionals often speak about these days). But we are talking about elders with responsibility for showing the way to others. Were they actually showing the way, or just talking about something they did not really apply in their own lives?

Whatever there answer, we have to be able to question these things.

I really enjoyed the story about the 'territorial sprits'. I wonder if they're a bit like the Territorial Army - kinda like standby spirits in case things get really bad.

The haunted church is a nice addition too. Thank goodness a couple of folks were on hand to wander about muttering a few words and make the 'baddies' go away. Absolute fantasy-land material.

Hi Rensil (& Blackwatch for the humour).
I think it was only a one day conference.
I don’t recall that about the Glasgow church being haunted but I do remember showing a Christian colleague from work around it when we first got it. She exclaimed in horror that the communion table and the ornate chairs were all Masonic and would bring darkness and evil to our meetings. She said they should be immediately ‘got rid of’.

For younger people who have had a more traumatic experience with 24 hours a day/seven days a week intensity of church life, you might wonder why I raise that specific 1 day conference. What I’m trying to highlight is the arrogance of the leaders thinking they had the right to do what they wanted, calling it spirit-led and considering they didn’t have to obey the rules of anyone else or any other church -even to the point of absolute rudeness. This we also observed (and I wrote in an earlier post) when Mr Black spoke through the millennial bells, announcing he was no way going to stop for ‘any man’ ( in other words, all of us sitting in the congregation who just wanted to reflect in quietness as we moved into the next millennium).

Hmmm...I posted a long anecdote concerning Mr Black's attempt at having me put on bread and water for giggling in a meeting. However, it appears to have disappeared into the ether.
Anyhoo, suffice to say he was wholly unsuccessful as my dear mummy cooked me the biggest and best fry up EVER, all the while declaring that " no one would have the audacity to tell her what to do with HER CHILDREN!" Thank goodness for my loving and enlightened mother!

BBC doc coming soon a certain person who is unable to keep a confidence let some folks know! The blabbing from you know who, let's
not name the blabber, but some will work that out. JAN 2026.!
We can imagine the content, heard some of the issues raised in recent months are of interest to the BBC but we understand not always those reading this.
Have an amazing life everyone.
Lets remember kindness is the best way and it heals us to forgive blabbers!
Mirmace

NB: Note well, major announcement... the Vestry in Glasgow has now been declared by DR as a gents toilet. She announced that via a story one Saturday night. Claimed to get locked in the Vestry. The congregants were left bewildered, but it has happened given the previous horror ministers use of it. That is the one who stomped off in a major, major hissy fit. But, let's be reasonable she does have fans after all she did buy one or three ice cream, coffee, but remember the money came from? We know, we know! Oh well it will all be screened Jan 2026, if blabber got it right!!
Mirmac

You had me laughing there, Mirmac, re the toilet in the vestry of the Glasgow Church. I remember there is a single toilet in there, which was used by the ministers before and after meetings. Since the majority of the ministers are female, it seems odd that it is to be made into a gents only toilet! I am being facetious here by the way. Diana was joking too, I know. I wouldn’t have thought she’d have minded being locked in the vestry though, because that’s where the glory of God comes in greatest measure and the greatest power is manifest. One could stay in there all night and just pray!

Liz25, the account telling the story about the Glasgow Church being haunted or shadowed by darkness and then being cleared, is given in one of Hugh Black’s books, War in Heaven and Earth. This book is about spiritual warfare, I think, and there might be something about territorial spirits in that book, Liz25. Not that I’m recommending that anyone should read the book, but just to say that it shows he did write at one time about such matters.

Mirmac: I can't imagine that the date for the documentary has been released to anyone on this forum. Personally, I'll be taking that info with a shovel of salt.

Writing about so-called 'spiritual warfare' is akin to writing about fairies. It's a world where one can simply dream up all sorts of nonsense and present it as fact. (The gullible eat that stuff up in large helpings).

HB, having the kind of authority he did, was well-enabled to do just that: speak with authority about fairies. You can imagine the sort of impact that would have on young, impressionable minds.

One wonders about the mechanics of the church haunting. What is it about church / old buildings that evil spirits find so attractive? And from whence did these spirits come? Who created them? What level of intelligence do they have? Do they have a 'conversation' amongst themselves to determine where to go next? How come saying a few prayers gets rid of them? - seems all too easy.

If that's what you believe in, fair enough. Do however drop me a line, I've got some magic beans that I think you'll be interested in ;-)

Recommend Billy Graham re what attracts outside forces. He seems a true man of God. We always liked him in our family but 0f course wa were ordered to listen only to she who shall not be named!
We each have a right to select what we believe and BW l too may take what we have heard from Blabber with a rather huge shovel of salt, but she does tell everyone that she meets with the BBC almost weekly for filming in Greenock, Falkirk and Largs! Believe what you wish to believe.
Rensil we were gobsmacked when we heard from our Gran about the Vestry, ex treatment chamber now being the Gents " Bog".
Lets all rejoice that we have salt at homem
Have a wonderful meeting free weekend.
Mirmac