Welcome new and returnee posters. Quite a few new names and I might not have caught all the posts yet as there has been quite a flurry. Welcome Joe0202. Incredible that a non-Struthers person has also found and stuck with this forum for a while. There are bound to be all sorts of tales out there of school years across Port Glasgow and Greenock - the 1960s and 1970s really were a different era in schools to now.

Don't know if you are staying on for a bit Phoebe2. I had mentioned the film Peace child a week or so ago and that I had been deemed to young to watch it. Mulberry added that they had watched it with their eyes covered. I'm sure you will have heard of it and wonder on your perspective now 50 years later? Perhaps the film is a film of its cultural era - viewing the tribe from a first world colonial-esque perspective, but the narrative of the story appears to have been a very useful one in the circumstances.[archive.org]

Probably showing my generational age, but I'm a bit concerned about naming flaring up again last night on the Forum. Perhaps some of us have a bit more time available this weekend with it being a Bank Holiday Monday ahead. Personally I'd like to read constructive additions to the Forum. I don't like the over-personalised ones, in fact, I find them quite upsetting, disturbing to read. Anonymousfornow had it spot on when they posted on p243

Quote

This forum is a really important resource for people who have suffered harm from SMC to share stories, find solidarity, healing, and warn others. However, it should not itself cause harm. Recent posters should consider the impact of their naming and shaming, this isn't Wednesday night at an August camp and it's not right to put individuals in the spotlight. It's also not entirely legal, and risks this entire forum being shut down.

Unless the person has or had a legal, financial or leadership responsibility, I for one would urge us all to pause before posting - and if you mention someone who has had none of these responsibilities, consider again before fully or partially "outing" them. The "outings" are not always going to be accurate. And ordinary people are entitled to privacy and the right to tell their own story. From what has been mentioned on the Forum over past months, there is a BBC documentary scheduled, and when that comes out, all manner of people will come to this forum and outed persons, even if still 100% all for Struthers, or all for one leader or another, they may end up being personally sought out which may be very frightening and have very serious, life-changing repercussions within an extended family, work-life or social-life.

I'm all for accountability, but for me that is legal, financial or leadership accountability. And yes, my big thing is parental accountability, and so I do post asking are parents aware of the impact of their actions, are grown adults aware of themselves giving away control to SMC leadership, but for me, the specifics of each case need to be taken forward within the family unit of each individual.

A further nanny-state point from me, the Forum Rules are available by clicking at the top right of the page. We have much more credibility when we stick to those. And if any posters choose to keep writing in ways that are not in keeping with those rules, it will be up to Forum contributors to conclude whether or not the personalised and sometimes straightforwardly nasty style of writing is being done to try bring the Forum down. And by so doing, will advertise that they are anti-Forum contributors.

And last point, I know from my personal life journey of almost 40 years out of Struthers, and with interaction with persons still in Struthers and persons now out of Struthers, it is very very easy for me to speak in an entitled, judgemental, opinionated and at times even bullying way first of all, only to have to eat humble pie later. (Perhaps this post shows my ongoing entitled mindset). I hope I am getting better at not saying the first thing that comes into my mind about a person or situation, but I don't always stop before I've blurted out. Reason I'm saying this is, I would not be surprised if some of our recent posters of the past month have been also been influenced by the extremes of family name/SMC exceptionalism and emotional bullying that they themselves grew up in, day in, day out for 18++ years, school life thrown in too, and are perhaps likely to be afflicted by the some of the same long term effects that I have to watch out for when posting here.

Here's to a good bank holiday weekend for all us workers. Vive le revolution.

Red Road thank you, terribly nice.
My post was more about power control and 1 person having too much power. Yes, of course the 60 and 70s were not great. We heard our gran chat re that.
This is less about me and more about As having far to much control of the following.

1: Glasgow Church that l hear is buzzing,
doing very well since you know who left.

2: The school.

3: A significant brainwashed youth group
that she made in her image. Clearly it is known some of us were loathed by her as we would not break, break break.

Redroad l simply wanted to have my say.
Have a wonderful weekend. We may pop into Larg on Sunday just for a laugh.

I don't share the view that this forum is becoming farcical. But I do think it's probably best to avoid discussing certain personal matters of non-leaders or prominent figures. This forum does not allow for deleting or editing of posts after half an hour.

Going back to the question about fun or good times in the Struthers Memorial Church Cult - I honestly don't think I ever experienced a 'fun' time in SMC. I have exactly zero positive memories or feelings about my entire time there - only relief when I had lived to survive through yet another meeting. The mere thought of going to each meeting filled me with dread. Camps were even worse, I remember feeling physically sick on the way down to Biggar, thinking about the mental torture that was to come.

Weekends where you had to do the ‘Quadruple’ were the worst - exhausting both physically, mentally, and emotionally. Friday night, head down to Greenock shortly after school for a youth meeting. Get home late. Spend all of Saturday in limbo, not being able to actually do anything useful because come 5 o'clock it was time to get ready to go to church... again. Drive to West end of Glasgow, past all the normal people in the west end having actual fun and enjoying life (unlike the SMC congregation!) - with their friends and other halfs, going to pubs, restaurants, or just enjoying an evening stroll. Try to find a seat at the back in one of the sides to hide as much as possible, and then endure through what felt like an eternity of an assault and accusations coming from the pulpit. Finally get home late again. Sunday morning comes and that of course calls for more church. Spend all of Sunday afternoon doing nothing because… come evening its time for church AGAIN. Get home Sunday night, get ready for Monday, and go to bed.

What a ridiculous waste of a weekend - and of precious life itself. Then of course there are even some midweek opportunities for more church too. This is just insanity. No wonder so many of the SMC faithful are so narrow minded - they never have the chance to experience life outside of the bubble.

I had the misfortune of growing up in Struthers, so I never experienced the lovebombing one will typically get when joining a high control group or cult. But it still blows my mind that so many intelligent adults join this thing voluntarily, and then stay there for the rest of their lives. Most of the parents in Struthers will have absolutely no issue with how and what their kids are being taught there - in fact, that’s exactly why they bring them there. They are completely oblivious to the serious damage they are doing to their kids.

It’s fascinating to hear how much money may have been diverted into the daft vanity project that was Cedars school. Interestingly, this now deleted page on the SMC website [web.archive.org] states the following re the school:

“Many members of the Struthers Memorial Fellowship give generously to support the school initiative.”

This page first appears on Wayback Machine in February 2023, suggesting that it was probably published probably about within the year before then. Certainly not back in around 2011 when Latigo was questioning this very topic. Makes you wonder if it was added in as a result of people starting to question things around this topic. Did the members always know that they were supporting the school initiative financially? Posts on here suggest they did not.

I hope some of the recent departures from SMC will join us on here soon and discuss their thoughts on it all. The open letters were very interesting to see - wonder how long those people will remain in the church, as they must now be in a very difficult position there. A good cult however will never entertain any ideas in these letters as doing that would admit to wrongdoing. Rather they will deny, double down, deflect, and chase out anyone causing trouble. And then of course smear their names, explain that the devil got to them, and insist no one ever speaks to them again. We all knew this would happen. Struthers - tell me I’m lyin!

Really interesting post byFatHippo.
Reading it I again felt the horror of that weekly schedule for folks born into it. Most especially do I feel for those who had SMC as school , church and home whose trauma we can read in some of the posts here.
Like AmazingGrace I’m quite confused by some of the writings but cannot deny how deeply affected these people must be. It seems especially bad to have been warned of Sunday punishment for school issues.
There was no recourse to safety or normality.

Later on in my journey within SMC I had the same viewpoint as FH. Seeing the people do all the normal things as we drove to church, then the drudgery of being there, the bad behaviours ( putting it mildly), the tellings off from the platform by difficult-to-accept people etc etc

Thank you to Rensil for their kind words and for depicting what I was trying to say in my last post (on previous page here) but with much more clarity.
And yes, RedRoad and others, I agree. Best not to name people, especially as they might just be wishing to come and join us.

Like many others, I have been a bit overwhelmed by all the activity recently. It is hard to keep up with all the posts, and I do not even make the attempt to work out who might be who or, who might be referring to whom.
There are some points I have noted however.

Going all the way back to the letters Pauline wrote, Rensil said:

Quote
Rensil on p235
I’d say that Pauline has shown great courage in writing these letters to the Board.

Just pause and think about that for a moment. I suspect everyone reading this forum recognises the truth of that statement. Is that in itself not telling however - that it takes great courage to write a letter with 46 scripture refences in it to the board? In any normal circumstances, that would not require courage. What sort of church makes you afraid to raise bible-based doctrinal issues with the leaders?

Rensil then goes on to say

Quote
Rensil on p235, referencing Pauline’s letter
She is saying things that many of us would like to say to the Struthers leaders about why SMC as a church is at fault in a lot of areas: autocratic leadership, preaching condemnation and harshness, disallowing freedom to speak for fear of being frozen out, misapplying the Bible verse “Touch not the Lord’s anointed”, and no room for asking questions.

Well indeed. I would perhaps word it slightly differently, saying that Pauline is questioning the practice in these areas, or clarifying the standards that should be applied in these areas rather than saying the church is at fault in these areas, but I agree these are all key issues for Struthers, and of course for the Struthers offshoots as well. If Andrew Jewell is for example setting up his own mini-Struthers then he has to answer these questions, and if Alison Spears is trying to make the church she is attending into a mini-struthers (hopefully with little success, it has to be said), she too has to answer these questions.

On another point, TheGreek and Mulberry made a good point about the responsibility of those in the congregation.

Quote
Mulberry p244
The Greek! I do wish there was a "like" or "thumbs up" icon i could click on in response to your post. Well said, Sir...or Madame. Isn't anonymity wonderful?

You raised a point over which I have pondered many times:
"If you have spent the last decade defending and funding the work of Struthers and nodding like a donkey when they condemned this forum - claiming all its hundreds of pages of testimony as lies - then you maybe have to accept you have some responsibility for some of the harm that has been done.

If something appears on one page upsetting you maybe that is the price you pay for being supportive for so long of an abusive and utterly vile church built on arrogance and lies."

I have come to the conclusion that if a person is a SMC pew-dweller , or indeed, a "nodding donkey", then that person is somehow complicit in the anathema that is Struthers. Remember, they describe themselves as a "movement" which is synonymous with a multitude of like-minded people, working towards a common outcome/goal. It is therefore my opinion that both leader and compliant pew-dwellers are equally guilty of perpetuating a rotten system and are therefore fair-game to be named and shamed. If they suddenly "see the light" like so many recently appear to have done, then sure, feel free to come on here and share your story. It IS a safe place. But please leave superior attitudes, false accusations and finger-pointing at the door. Afterall, we are ALL here to share and heal.

Mulberry, I do agree with you there. It is of course the leaders who carry the bulk of the responsibility, but every single person in the congregation is obliged to do their bit and is complicit if they do not stand against this blatant abuse.

As KirkbyFurby said on another thread on this forum:

Quote
KirkbyFurby on the Kirkby Christian Fellowship thread (Kirkby Church was at one time affiliated with Struthers)
Martin Luther King said "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it."

So, every single person carries a personal responsibility. I understand we should be cautious about naming people other than leaders. I am not suggesting naming individuals, but I am saying that there is no neutral position here (or indeed anywhere) for any member of Struthers.

You have to know that attending, endorsing the leaders and providing financial support is a choice you are making to support this organisation and the abuse it has imposed on people. I don’t suppose anyone here will be called to the Hague to stand before a war crimes tribunal but a number of matters will hit the public domain in the forthcoming months and family and colleagues may well ask why you lend your support to such abuse. If you are a Christian, then you also believe you will one day stand before a much more terrifying judgement. How will you answer when asked why you stood by and did nothing to help people suffering in this way?

Please do not ignore this. As Tim Keller would say – the only way secular people can survive is to not think about things like the purpose of life and what happens when we die, but the way Christians thrive is to spend more time thinking about these things.

I repeat:

Quote
Martin Luther King quoted by KirbyFurby
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it."

As 1 Cor 6v2 says, "do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world?"

Perhaps Martin Luther King Junior will be asked to judge Struthers pew-dwellers. If so, it seems like they are in for a bit of a hard time.

I don't think the Forum is farcical . I believe that all who have told of their experience in Struthers have truly suffered . Different experiences matter .

I have no memory of " good times " .
In my previous posts , I raised my concerns about the " school " . The nepotism of family members being employed in the establishment .

The financial situation is unacceptable .
Many vulnerable people ,genuine people are still being caught in the trap .

I pray that they will see a way forward by reading of true experiences on this Forum . The truth must prevail .

Wonderful lintar, thank you for endorsing freedom of speech. Shocking that the truth of so many can be seen as ' farcical, just shocking but well at least there is opportunity for alternative views.
Totally agree with W of E, so let's encourage one another.
1 Thessalonians 5- 11.



"So speak encouraging words to one another. Build up hope so you will all be together in this, no one left out, no one left behind".

Hard to believe As taught me as l know lots more than 1 scripture from Hebrews.
We have tried so hard to be encouraging re the shocking appalling behaviour of AS now attending CON Largs.
Be blessed everyone.

Hi
To fat hippo, Mirmac, redroad
I wasn’t brought up in the church coming into SMC in my early 20’s so it’s hard to grasp the mindset of parents or relatives who allowed such control over their family life. It’s one thing to allow it over your own life but when your responsible for the nurture and spiritual/ Christian growth of a young life as well that’s when you need to really look at your life choices. But maybe I’m being naive and the parents are so blind that they can’t stand back and see the damage being done to their own children?
When the school came into being I didn’t think of the possible mental health impact on young lives…that basically they would be spending all day in the church school with church leaders (especially AS) then go home …back to a church meeting and so the cycle continues.
At one point I was attending 7 meetings a week:
Monday night Greenock Bible study
Tuesday night Glasgow Bible study (when Mr Black was alive)
Thursday ..house group
Friday prayer meeting Glasgow until it was stopped and then youth group Greenock
Saturday night meeting Greenock then eventually Glasgow
Sunday morning and Sunday night Glasgow
All while first studying full time then working full time!
At least I had a different social environment when at work …but being a pupil at cedars as well as the 7 meetings a week that would have been exceptionally difficult. Especially with AS as headteacher.

But maybe for some, children of the church with all their friends there maybe it was a healthy environment?

It would be good to hear more about the cedars school experience.

A few comments on Mirmacs post
Mirmac
‘significant brainwashed youth group
that she made in her image. Clearly it is known some of us were loathed by her as we would not break, break break.’
I don’t think I’ve told this story. When I was first in SMC I visited Millport and attended a meeting. At the end of the meeting AS started to talk about the Glasgow church and how all the congregants were all just ‘little Mary’s’ Running around.
I was shocked by the statement because to me AS was being critical of Mary and I didn’t think any Christian in SMC would do that ….naive I know!
After the meeting when alone with a friend we discussed the statement to which the friend turned and said ‘ye wait and see there will be a load of ‘wee Alisons’ running around!! How true! That’s exactly what AS tried to do ….make a group of people in her image and if they didn’t ‘bend the knee’ then they were seen as worthless.
And
‘as all the top prizes were really for the
children of parents who ' bent the knee,
who grovelled and attended every meeting’
Did someone else not post something similar…an ex-cedars pupil who wasn’t in the church but only attended the school? Similar favouritism towards AS ‘chosen ones’
I’m sorry for forgetting who you are……

Not that long ago I was talking to parents who don’t go to SMC and who sent their child there (secondary school age.) The child complained about Cedars and didn’t want to attend but the parents at first tried to encourage their child to continue to go because of the ‘Christian’ element. But when the incident with AS happened they finally withdrew their child. The parents were never told what was happening in the school re financial difficulties etc. They have a better idea now and are glad that their child was withdrawn and now settled in another school. This happened about a year before it finally closed.

I wonder as time progresses if we will hear about more incidents where young people were treated unfairly or actually ‘spiritually abused’ because it seems that AS couldn’t separate her job in education from her role as a leader in SMC.

Enjoy the long weekend if you’re all off on Monday …

Thanks for all of your interesting posts.

Something I have to disagree on, though, is the concept that every single member and attendee of Struthers, is responsible for the abuse of various kinds which has been meted out by the church leadership. Why I see things this way is because of the fact that we were all (or mostly all) once part of SMC and we didn’t know any better. We went to Struthers because we wanted to be there, not because we wanted to see spiritual abuse or harsh treatment being given out. We were indoctrinated and deluded. Eventually we “saw the light”, realised what was going on, saw through the hypocrisy, the lies and insularity and we decided to leave, despite feeling wounded and rather confused.

Now we look back and see how awful it truly was. Now we hear stories from others who have left of what happened to them in this church, if one can even call it a church. More and more is coming to light that we ourselves did not know about. Lots of incidents were swept under the carpet and we were often none the wiser. But now we are finding out more and more of what went on, especially where children and teenagers are concerned, and where finance is concerned.

So I for one don’t want to harshly judge anyone who is still in Struthers. Let’s hope and pray that they too will see the light and get out. There’s hope for all of them. We were in their position once. That’s my view, anyway.

It’s the same regarding parents in Struthers who bring their children to the meetings and to Camps. Those parents who are pro-Struthers and committed to the church want their children to have the same experience and teaching. That’s why they bring their kids along. They don’t see it as harmful, they see it as a good thing. Red Road, I’m sure your parents felt this way and that’s why they took you to Struthers. No normal parent wants to allow their children to be harmed, controlled or spiritually abused. These parents believe they’re doing the right thing. Many don’t know what has been going on at Youth meetings because they simply trust the leaders who are in charge of the Youth work, just as they trust and look up to the main church leaders. Once the parents realise the truth themselves, then they will remove their children from SMC too. Maybe more of them will do so, after reading the posts here concerning the spiritual abuse of young people. They have to see the light, though.

I hadn't intended to rejoin the Forum but think I had better correct some misunderstandings arising from my post of May 2nd.
First of all to say that as someone who has been involved in pastoral counselling for over 30 years (apart from my personal struggles as an SMC survivor) the very last thing I would wish to do is minimise the grievous hurt and damage that so many on this forum have undergone and are attempting, in various ways, to work through. My concerns -- which with the wisdom of retrospect I see now should have been spelled out more specifically at the time -- were as follows:
1) whether or not one, or more than one, of the contributors had a false agenda (in other words, as I said, if there was a "mole" on board, with the intention of undermining the credibility of this forum). Anonymity is one thing; impersonation is quite another.
2) The dictionary definition of the word "farcical" is "something so absurd or ludicrous that it's not taken seriously") and it was in the context of the concerns expressed above that I used that word. It surely goes without saying that I was in no way referring to people's genuine hurts as "absurd" or "ludicrous" (my own were certainly not). However, some of the language or epithets used in certain posts to my mind were not only farcical in the technical sense but came very close to an infringement of Forum rules (especially as spelled out in paragraph 10), with which all participants agree to abide.
3) Again with the wisdom of retrospect, it would have been better to have said "the forum is in danger of losing credibility" rather than "well on the way to losing credibility".
Last but not least -- heartfelt apologies to any individuals I may inadvertently have wounded by the words and phrases I used -- and equally heartfelt prayers that all those "honourably wounded" folk who've had the courage to post here will find lasting freedom and healing.