Squareone, I tend to agree with you on the point of SMC leaders enjoying the 'wow' factor and the self-importance gained from their apparent 'gifts' [cbarb]


thanks cbarb, but this was what I actually said

I mentioned it because it came back to me while reading the most recent latigo article the message of which seemed to be that SMC leaders like deliverance ministry because it makes folks go 'wow' and think highly of them [squareone]


I actually think the leaders believe in what they're doing, I think they believe that Christians need deliverance from demons, the irony being - who wins when Christians believe and propogate the wrong message?

Cbarb you nailed it in one of your previous posts in which you were saying that we have to stop being obsessed with our own spiritual walk and start reaching out to others. We have to grow up. It IS a battle and it IS a spiritual battle when you're a Christian but we have to stop blaming our failures on demon possession and the like. e.g. If we gave into temptation then we should just say that - a demon didn't make me do it - I wanted to do it!! Ask forgiveness and move on. Surely that's more helpful than going to get your non existent demons exorcised at camp twice a year, every year til you drop



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2012 04:19PM by squareone.

Hi Squareone

Yes, sorry I got you a bit wrong there but I agree with where you're coming from with your observations. There are no winners when the wrong message is being given and only losers. There is way too much looking at 'Myself' taught in SMC instead of selflessness but when you have such selfish leadership it stands to reason that they will be spouting only what they themselves believe and twisted Biblical references which, seemingly, support their beliefs rather than the truth of the whole Biblical message.

Another point I've been wondering about is the financial mismanagement and how SMC justify paying salaries to members of the same two families, to run Cedars. Where does that money come from? Are the congregation paying these salaries through their tithes and are they happy to be doing so? Particularly if they are un-employed or struggling themselves to survive.

Also, I haven't seen the up to date accounts yet but I wouldn't expect them to be all that different from previous accounts which means they will still be reporting a deficit. If this is the case, how do they justify keeping the school open if it is draining the church's cash in such a big way?

I for one, would not be happy about my offerings to the church being used to pay the salaries of teachers who could just as easily work in state schools and cost the congregation nothing. There are still a lot of unanswered questions in this regard.

On a happy note, I just received a cheque from the electric board for £54 for all the upset with the power the other week.... how cool is that? :-)

I'm a very happy bunny today!

Much love and biiiiiiig huggggggs to all, including the electric board :-)
God bless xxxxx

Cbarb,
You said in a recent post that you felt Miss Taylor didn't like men and that she'd maybe never been in love herself. Well, I remember her telling us, in more than one sermon, that she'd had an admirer in her young years who wanted to marry her and who kept persisting. She told us that because God had told her that she wasn't to marry, then she could not accept the gentleman's proposal of marriage and this had hurt and upset her very deeply because she loved this man. She told us that she had given up the relationship for God and said "No" to the man. Her telling us this story had the effect of giving young people the idea that it was a more noble and highly spiritual act to refuse a marriage proposal because God had told you that you were not to marry. The teaching caused people to be inhibited instead of forming good, healthy relationships and getting to know people of the opposite sex. And she was not the only leader to propagate that kind of teaching. I believe it may be right for some people to stay single, but it's up to the individual to hear and obey God on the matter, and not just emulate another person and do what they do, and obey unquestionly.

Hence you end up with SMC leaders meddling in people's marriages and also in relationships which could lead to marriage. Yes, Miss Taylor did meddle, but others after her did aswell. Read Lintar123's posts about this and the appalling way in which she was treated by the Cumbernauld leader. And it still carries on today as far as I know, judging by some of the posts on here. It's that mantle again! LoL! Watch for the mantle!

What do you mean by "off her rocker", Cbarb? Do you mean mental disorder and why do you think it happened at that point in time? Just wondering.

Hi Rensil

YESSSS... suddenly I understand all the relationship meddling. Thanks for that, my memory is not as good as that - probably because I mostly switched off when Miss T. hit the platform. :-)

You are oh so RIGHT about that meddling mantle.

Biiiig love and huge huggggs
xxxx

to BlackWatch and others -

With all the talk on this thread about "powerful presence of God" experiences, it might be worth
taking a look at Derren Browns most recent show, in which he shows just how powerful experiences claimed to be of this type, can be
induced, merely by psychology and the power of suggestion.

With Struthers leaders and congregation constantly injecting "presence of God" into sermons and general discussion and their church culture is it
any wonder that people report this sort of stuff ?

[www.channel4.com]

Clive, you've said before that you're not a christian believer, whereas most of us on here, who have been members of SMC, are christians. I believe that we can genuinely feel the presence of God and that it can't be explained away simply by psychological techniques or the power of suggestion. The presence of God can be felt anywhere. I can feel it in the church I now go to. So we can't just throw the baby out with the bath-water

People may indeed feel that presence of God in SMC meetings and it may make them feel good and give them a sense of well-being. But I dont think that it's all down to mere induced behaviour and psychological manipulation. Some of it could be and some people may be more susceptible to being manipulated than others. There may be control through the singing and worship times and tongues-speaking. I believe there
is. But what is really wrong in SMC is the controlling and overbearing interference in people's personal and spiritual lives by the leaders and sub-leaders. But, yes, its a danger to watch out for in any church or revival meeting: people doing things because of the use of powers of suggestion and trickery coming from the person who is leading at the front.

Derren Brown's shows can be very interesting and have a lot of truth in them. Ironically though, I believe he was a bit upset that there were some who suggested that his Apocalypse show was a fraud and the main person in it an actor. Suppose you just have to choose what you're going to believe.....Hanging on to faith by a thread



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2012 03:12PM by squareone.

Faith is a complex thing. I used to think it was about this sort of unshakable belief that certain things were true – there was a God, Jesus was the Son of God, He died on a cross, Struthers Leaders were infallible – that sort of thing.


We will all have or own interpretation, but I guess I look at it a bit differently now. One of the questions I would ask is what do I want to believe in – or, in other words, what is worth believing in.

You see, the way I look at it, what Struthers stands for isn’t worth believing in – it abuses and depresses people rather than empowering them. Whether people claim evidence it is “true” or not is almost irrelevant to me – it holds nothing that is worth believing in.

I am not sure whether Darren Brown claims to stand for anything but I am not aware of any driving moral purpose behind his shows. I certainly wouldn’t want to follow him and accept any particular philosophy of life just because of the impressive ability to do what appears impossible.

What Jesus stood for IS worth believing and following however. He was willing not to kill for His beliefs, but instead to die for them – to show that the highest way is to do what is right, to love the poor and the oppressed and not to give into pressure from the establishment. To me, that is a faith worth having. It doesn’t make it compulsory, but it does make it valuable!

I don’t want to go off the theme of this thread or to try to convince anyone to follow a particular path, but I do think the question of whether something is worth believing in is relevant to our discussions about Struthers.

Quote
squareone
Derren Brown's shows can be very interesting and have a lot of truth in them. Ironically though, I believe he was a bit upset that there were some who suggested that his Apocalypse show was a fraud and the main person in it an actor. Suppose you just have to choose what you're going to believe.....Hanging on to faith by a thread

Yes, the Apocalypse show was a bit of a dud really. A rehash of the 747 Airliner one really.

How he comes up with new stuff considering the stuff he's pulled off already beats me.

Quote
ThePetitor

I am not sure whether Darren Brown claims to stand for anything but I am not aware of any driving moral purpose behind his shows. I certainly wouldn’t want to follow him and accept any particular philosophy of life just because of the impressive ability to do what appears impossible.


I don’t want to go off the theme of this thread or to try to convince anyone to follow a particular path, but I do think the question of whether something is worth believing in is relevant to our discussions about Struthers.

He is an entertainer, but he does make a consistent and valid point about humans susceptibility to be exploited by religious and psychic charlatans.

Talk of becoming a Derren Brown "follower" just misses the point and seems a little straw-man-ish. Nobody is suggesting that we all follow Derren Brown.
But maybe thats just the old "SMC follower" mindset rearing its ugly head here. Comparing Derren to Jesus ? I mean really ??

SMC preys on those only too happy to surrender their brains to the leadership.

Some people are just born to be sheep. Take the Hugh Black incident for example. I'm guessing that the ones who left in disgusts were the ones who had some kind of leadership ability.

I mean - what kind of person sees this kind of thing happen and then stays on and buys into the spiel about this being a "test of loyalty" ?

Psychology.

There may be a god, there may not. But either way it pays for all of us to learn as much as possible about just how much of this pentecostal experience type stuff REALLY emanates from god, and how much is either just wishful thinking
or simply all-in-the-mind.

Such is the stuff of cults.

Oh and Jim Jones was covered on the Beeb tonight.

Dont be drinking the SMC cool-aid people !



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2012 12:24PM by Clive.