'this is descending into madness' [squareone]



very rude. Very sorry x


should have posted this first



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2012 05:54PM by squareone.

Hi guys

squareone, no worries, you're entitled to your views and no one holds them against you. We can all only speak from personal experience and some of us are just wary of anything attached to the SMC movement although we all might have different reasons for perhaps being a bit cynical at times.

Cedars perhaps shouldnt' be debated here but, as previously said, it is part of the whole charitable organisation and can't be overlooked as place of influence in childrens' lives, with or without parents' and outside knowledge. I personally can't comment on how the school is run because I have no direct or indirect involvement and I don't know any parents who send their children there but I do have reservations based on my knowledge of the past and the kind of influences people 'in authority' had over the young people in the church and at school, both then and now.

I actually wouldn't mind hearing from some SMC supporters to find out why they continue to ignore some glaringly obvious facts about the anti-christian behaviour they are being taught and whether or not they believe God should be in control of their lives or the person on the pulpit should have that privilege.

For example: If an SMC church member felt God was calling them to a certain action and they went to speak to the church leader about it. If that church leader then took it upon themselves to tell the church member that God was not speaking to them about this action or God was telling them something completely different... whose voice would the church member listen to?

I don't think I'll be holding my breath for any answers to that though.

Anyway, like others, I think the debate really calls all of the Struthers movement into question, not just the church. But I hope that the Cedars environment is free from the core SMC influences.

It's uplifiting to hear that so many people are praying for SMC just now because they all need our support in prayer just as much as we need each others prayers.

Biiig LOVE to all
GOD bless you xxx

PS I'm really looking forward to the Revival via i-Pad :-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2012 10:20PM by cbarb.

Heres just one small example of why I am suspicious of faith schools that are so closely tied, not just to
one particular form of religion, but to one particular fundamentalist sect - and not merely that - but one particular church and small cardre of leaders.

[www.youtube.com]

and I would be very interested to learn from those on this forum that might know :-

Does the Cedars School use the "Accelerated Christian Education’s Literature" Course ?

[leavingfundamentalism.wordpress.com]

Article in the Times Education Supplement

[www.tes.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2012 12:46AM by Clive.

thanks cbarb:)



Clive, if you look at the school website it says the curriculum is based on the curriculum for excellence. Not sure what 'based on' means particularily but I used to look at their blogs and they were doing very similar things to those that my own children were doing in the local authority school (minus the ipads and weekly trips of course;) The format of the website has changed a bit and there seems to be a bit more information on the staff and their qualifications etc... I know there are children from various ethnic (and I presume religious) backgrounds in the school and I assume that their needs have to be taken into consideration. Am assuming (again!!) that fee paying parents who didn't like the curriculum or any other aspect of the school would keep on truckin



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2012 02:39AM by squareone.

Clive very interesting link.. The guy knew what he was talking about having formally attended a fundamentalist faith school. I think you are right to be concerned about faith schools which are creeping into the UK some of which appear to be embracing a USA style right wing fundamentalism in their education Scary that a gov body has benchmarked the accelerated christian education certificate. I have no idea if Cedars School use the literature of the ACE in school but it would be interesting to know.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2012 11:27PM by mandrake.

No, Cedars School doesn't use the Accelerated Christian Education scheme. To my knowledge, they follow the Scottish Government's Curriculum for Excellence programme which is the same as all the state schools follow. Cedars wouldn't get any pupils in if they taught way-out or Struthers doctrines, so they keep to the normal scottish curriculum. They teach evolution in Biology and not creation, for example. Chesterk55 has explained the situation regarding the establishing and operation of Cedars School perfectly, so if you don't know much about it, please read and digest that recent post.

Before the School was set up, I remember hearing that one of the reasons why SMC leaders wanted to set up their own school was because there was too much sexual activity going on openly at school amongst pupils in state schools, and they wanted to protect children from that. Whilst I'm not saying that this couldn't happen, I know that it is extremely rare and any such behaviour would be dealt with appropriately and efficiently by teachers in state schools. In addition, after Cedars school started to take teenagers up to 5th and 6th year, many of whom come from non-Christian families, they will have had to discuss sexual matters in school. So that reason doesn't have substance now either.

Chesterk55 is right that they had to start taking non-church and non-christian kids in order to keep it going financially. This was said publicly by leaders aswell. The school has kids from very wealthy families, who may never set foot in an SMC church except at the Christmas dramas. SMC do consider the School to be a form of outreach, though; they have said so. I believe they try to invite school pupils to the youth meetings at SMC. And they don't do much in the way of other outreach. You're right, squareone, that the fees are lower than other private schools. This helps them to attract parents looking for a small private school. But as Chesterk55 points out, they have the church collection-plate to supplement (or more) their income and they don't tell people that. Squareone, you can read the explanations about the financial side on the Latigo site where you'll find analysis of the accounts. I realise you know people in the school and church and you are finding it hard to believe. So did most of us on here; we were committed christians seeking a walk with God and got duped, as Cbarb describes.

Chesterk55, your last post is so informative, thanks for sharing. I don't know how I missed the whole Ipad revival debacle but that genuinely made me snigger out loud. But there's a sad side to that as well and it's this: To think that people will deliberately say whatever it takes to get whatever they want is disgusting. Furthermore, it puts genuine believers in a quandary - "if this is what's going to bring about revival and I don't contribute, am I hindering revival?"

It got me thinking that if someone claims to be able to interpret and act out God's will and other people believe and subsequently follow this person, it bestows the individual with a lot of power. Thus, the person (or people) can say and do what they like to get the results they want. This type of phenomenon is at the very heart of every cult that ever existed, that is, the followers seeing the leader or leaders as having some kind of supernatural insight or power. The only people that can remove the power is the followers.

As an aside, if anyone gets a chance to speak to any of the people that were involved in the SMC branch that was closed to make way for the school, do so. There were individuals there for whom it was their life for a long number of years and it was closed down and snuffed out in an instant and with virtually no notice. It left quite a bit of resentment and disillusionment not to mention hurt.

Let me be absolutely clear about one thing: SMC have very good commercial awareness. For all their anti-worldly preaching, there are no qualms when it comes to making and raising money and this mindset is applied in some measure to the school. It concerned me some time ago that far more effort was put into running a charity and a business than was put into reaching and saving souls. I wonder what Jesus himself would have to say about that.

Getting back to the subject of Cedars, whether the school is run in a similar way to the church is, I believe, beside the point. It’s enough to know that it’s a work that’s owned and run by SMC to be of some concern and I’ll explain why.

Years ago (I’m not sure if it’s still the case today) if you wanted to become a police officer, you had to undergo a rigorous interview process that culminated in a home visit involving an interview session with the candidates parents. The entire process helped build a picture of the candidates’ character and gave the force some idea of the type of choices they had made in their life to that point in time. In other words, they were looking for wholesome, trustworthy individuals. People who fitted that profile were more likely to succeed. Would a carpenter that had a bad reputation for poor quality work fit the profile? Or a butcher that was known for selling meat that was turning? Could either of these characters have been a good policeman? Quite possibly but it’s their attitude towards their other work that would raise doubts.

There comes a point when it is relevant to call into question a person or organization’s behavior in one aspect of their work when looking at another. People in their droves have openly stated that they have been hurt, mis-treated, deluded, and in some cases deeply, deeply scarred as a result of their involvement with SMC. Can an organisation that has caused so much pain and misery run a good school? Quite possibly. When considering buying education services from SMC, some people might consider their track record in SMC's other work to be relevant.

Thanks squareone, rensil and others here who helped clarify things regarding Cedars.

its always best to get ones facts straight as much as one is able on these things.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2012 07:48AM by Clive.

I do know and care about people in the school etc, but they're not my friends. That was made quite clear to me. I find it hard to wish them ill though, for instance I wouldn't be happy to see the school or coffee shop close and they lose their jobs or whatever. That's just how I feel, I don't expect others to feel the same. I can see that the school has a dubious financial history what I find hard to believe is that wrongdoing in the actual day to day running of the school and treatment of pupils would not be very quickly noticed by parents who's concern is for their child, not keeping Struthers afloat. I think the school works in that regard. That's just my opinion. Whether or not it should be there in the first place is, it seems, a whole different can of worms.

If the powers that be are being deliberately vague or saying the collection is for one thing then putting it towards another without consultation, that's clearly very wrong. Do they have an AGM? I suppose they must do. In my church the accounts are completely available for any of us to see and practically every penny goes to help people in this country and abroad who are less fortunate than ourselves. Very little is kept for 'housekeeping.' I think this is good....I often wondered why the collection plate was handed round at both meetings on a Sunday at Struthers, the same people were at both meetings! But nobody seemed to mind...or so I thought. Now I know that it's very hard to say that you mind something in Struthers church. I was also quite surprised when someone told me that if you visit camp you have to pay to get into the meetings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2012 05:13PM by squareone.