Why do stars love such strange groups?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: May 29, 2006 10:44PM
durham:
You have no way of knowing through your contact and courses with Scientology anything regarding Xenu.net.
You have not reached "clear" and therefore know nothing about OT-3, Xenu and Hubbard's teachings about out space aliens affecting the human condition and what he called "body thetans" (the spiritual residue of dead aliens from outer space) attaching themselves to you.
That's part of what "clearing" you is all about.
But you don't find that out until you have paid to reach OT-3, which could easily cost you more than a hundred thousand dollars.
Scientology sells its religious revelations and they have a price list.
They also sell "auditing" by the hour or session, which is their version of confession.
Have you signed any release forms yet?
You have no way of knowing through your contact and courses with Scientology anything regarding Xenu.net.
You have not reached "clear" and therefore know nothing about OT-3, Xenu and Hubbard's teachings about out space aliens affecting the human condition and what he called "body thetans" (the spiritual residue of dead aliens from outer space) attaching themselves to you.
That's part of what "clearing" you is all about.
But you don't find that out until you have paid to reach OT-3, which could easily cost you more than a hundred thousand dollars.
Scientology sells its religious revelations and they have a price list.
They also sell "auditing" by the hour or session, which is their version of confession.
Have you signed any release forms yet?
Why do stars love such strange groups?
Posted by:
durham
()
Date: May 30, 2006 03:12AM
True xenu.net is not required reading for all Scientologists but I studied the site hard before I got involved with Scientology.Quote
You have no way of knowing through your contact and courses with Scientology anything regarding Xenu.net.
No - OT3 is confidential - I only know I've seen stuff on unreliable sources on the internet saying it is the OT3 material. Maybe it is the real stuff.Quote
You have not reached "clear" and therefore know nothing about OT-3, Xenu and Hubbard's teachings about out space aliens affecting the human condition and what he called "body thetans" (the spiritual residue of dead aliens from outer space) attaching themselves to you.
That's part of what "clearing" you is all about.
You could easily pay a million for it if you want to, or you could get it for a fraction of that.Quote
But you don't find that out until you have paid to reach OT-3, which could easily cost you more than a hundred thousand dollars.
Signed a couple of forms - nothing very interesting - basically the church covering itself legally so that people can't sue them for not curing them of their gayness or something silly.Quote
Have you signed any release forms yet?
Why do stars love such strange groups?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: May 30, 2006 04:53AM
durham:
Scientology not telling you about its doctrinal belief in space aliens, body thetans and Xenu from the beginning is something like Jews forgetting to talk about Abraham or Moses. Or, Christians neglecting to tell you about the virgin birth.
Xenu is probably not told to newbies for two reasons.
1. Scientology would lose quite a few recruits, because they would think it's not believable.
2. They want you to keep paying to clear and beyond to OT-3 to find out.
The forms you signed are not typical of churches.
Catholics, Methodists, Jews and Buddhists don't expect congregants to sign such forms.
To better understand what rights you signed away.
See [www.cultnews.com]
Here are some excerpts:
A document titled “Agreement and General Release Regarding Spiritual Assistance” states; “Others may think that I need psychiatric treatment…I instead desire to receive Scientology spiritual assistance…”
The same release form prohibits “any psychiatrist, medical person, designated member of the state or family member” from placing the Scientologist that signs into a hospital or facility for psychiatric treatment under any circumstances. And explicitly authorizes Scientology to “intercede” if they do.
Each Scientologist who signs the newly revised release form now accepts “without reservation, and without condition…all known and unknown risks of injury, loss, or damage…and specifically absolve all persons and entities from all liabilities of any kind, without limitation, associated with…participation or their participation in [the] Introspection Rundown.”
In another document recently made public titled “Agreement Regarding Confidential Religious Files” Scientology once again seems concerned with covering its backside regarding potential legal problems.
This revised release form pertains to “folders containing its notations [regarding]…spiritual progress, known as a ‘Preclear Folder’ or ‘PC folder.’”
Scientologists are now apparently obliged to “specifically acknowledge and agree that…PC Folders…are the sole and exclusive property of Church of Scientology International.”
Each person that signs this release further acknowledges that their “PC folder,” which often contains deeply personal and otherwise private information obtained through counseling sessions Scientology calls “auditing,” is ” not mine.” And that they subsequently “…have no legal, ecclesiastical or other rights whatsoever with respect to them.”
According to Scientology the “disclosure” of what is written up within these “folders and files…would be spiritually damaging” to the subject “not only in this lifetime, but in future lifetimes as well.’
That “abandonment…is unconditional and irrevocable and applies equally to anyone acting or purporting to be acting on my behalf or for my benefit, whether…alive or dead [like Lisa McPherson]…disabled or incapacitated, and under any and all circumstances foreseen or unforeseen, in perpetuity, without exception or limitation.”
This comprehensive document appears designed to preempt any lawyer or public official from meaningful discovery regarding its member’s files, even posthumously.
The form states; “Anyone acting or purporting to be acting on my behalf or for my benefit ever seek access to any of my PC Folders…this Contract…a complete and sufficient basis for the immediate denial of whatever access is being sought…”
Scientology has never denied the teachings of OT-3, only tried to spin their way out of any meaningful discussion.
See [www.culteducation.com]
This is the most recent Rolling Stone article about Scientology.
An excerpt reads:
"Scientologists must be "invited" to do OT III. Beforehand, they are put through an intensive auditing process to verify that they are ready. They sign a waiver promising never to reveal the secrets of OT III, nor to hold Scientology responsible for any trauma or damage one might endure at this stage of auditing. Finally, they are given a manila folder, which they must read in a private, locked room.
These materials, which the Church of Scientology has long struggled to keep secret, were published online by a former member in 1995 and have been widely circulated in the mainstream media, ranging from The New York Times to last year's South Park episode. They assert that 75 million years ago, an evil galactic warlord named Xenu controlled seventy-six planets in this corner of the galaxy, each of which was severely overpopulated. To solve this problem, Xenu rounded up 13.5 trillion beings and then flew them to Earth, where they were dumped into volcanoes around the globe and vaporized with bombs. This scattered their radioactive souls, or thetans, until they were caught in electronic traps set up around the atmosphere and "implanted" with a number of false ideas -- including the concepts of God, Christ and organized religion. Scientologists later learn that many of these entities attached themselves to human beings, where they remain to this day, creating not just the root of all of our emotional and physical problems but the root of all problems of the modern world.
The church considers OT III confidential material. But there are numerous science-fiction references in Scientology texts available to members of all levels. The official "Glossary for Scientology and Dianetics" includes an entry for "space opera," a sci-fi genre that the glossary says "is not fiction and concerns actual incidents." Scientology's "Technical Dictionary" makes reference to a number of extraterrestrial "invader forces," including one, the "Marcab Confederacy," explained as a vast, interplanetary civilization more than 200,000 years old that "looks almost exact duplicate [sic] but is worse off than the current U.S. civilization." Indeed, as even Rinder himself points out, Hubbard presented a rough outline of the Xenu story to his followers in a 1967 taped lecture, "RJ 67," in which he noted that 75 million years ago a cataclysmic event happened in this sector of the galaxy that has caused negative effects for everyone since. This material is available to lower-level Scientologists. But the details of the story remain secret within Scientology.
Rinder has fielded questions on Scientology's beliefs for years. When I ask him whether there is any validity to the Xenu story, he gets red-faced, almost going into a tirade. "It is not a story, it is an auditing level," he says, neither confirming nor denying that this theology exists. He says that OT material -- and specifically the material on OT III -- comprises "a small percent" of what Scientology is all about. But it is carefully guarded. Scientologists on the OT levels often carry their materials in locked briefcases and are told to store them in special secure locations in their homes. They are also strictly forbidden from discussing any facet of the materials, even with their families. "I'm not explaining it to you, and I could not explain it to you," says Rinder heatedly. "You don't have a hope of understanding it."
FYI-One interesting thing cited in the Rolling Stone piece is that "the coroner's report described the father of Scientology as in a state of decrepitude: unshaven, with long, thinning whitish-red hair and unkempt fingernails and toenails. In Hubbard's system was the anti-anxiety drug hydroxyzine (Vistaril), which several of his assistants would later attest was only one of many psychiatric and pain medications Hubbard ingested over the years."
Interesting that the very drugs Scientologists protest were found in L. Ron Hubbard's body after his death.
Scientology not telling you about its doctrinal belief in space aliens, body thetans and Xenu from the beginning is something like Jews forgetting to talk about Abraham or Moses. Or, Christians neglecting to tell you about the virgin birth.
Xenu is probably not told to newbies for two reasons.
1. Scientology would lose quite a few recruits, because they would think it's not believable.
2. They want you to keep paying to clear and beyond to OT-3 to find out.
The forms you signed are not typical of churches.
Catholics, Methodists, Jews and Buddhists don't expect congregants to sign such forms.
To better understand what rights you signed away.
See [www.cultnews.com]
Here are some excerpts:
A document titled “Agreement and General Release Regarding Spiritual Assistance” states; “Others may think that I need psychiatric treatment…I instead desire to receive Scientology spiritual assistance…”
The same release form prohibits “any psychiatrist, medical person, designated member of the state or family member” from placing the Scientologist that signs into a hospital or facility for psychiatric treatment under any circumstances. And explicitly authorizes Scientology to “intercede” if they do.
Each Scientologist who signs the newly revised release form now accepts “without reservation, and without condition…all known and unknown risks of injury, loss, or damage…and specifically absolve
In another document recently made public titled “Agreement Regarding Confidential Religious Files” Scientology once again seems concerned with covering its backside regarding potential legal problems.
This revised release form pertains to “folders containing its notations [regarding]…spiritual progress, known as a ‘Preclear Folder’ or ‘PC folder.’”
Scientologists are now apparently obliged to “specifically acknowledge and agree that…PC Folders…are the sole and exclusive property of Church of Scientology International.”
Each person that signs this release further acknowledges that their “PC folder,” which often contains deeply personal and otherwise private information obtained through counseling sessions Scientology calls “auditing,” is ” not mine.” And that they subsequently “…have no legal, ecclesiastical or other rights whatsoever with respect to them.”
According to Scientology the “disclosure” of what is written up within these “folders and files…would be spiritually damaging” to the subject “not only in this lifetime, but in future lifetimes as well.’
That “abandonment…is unconditional and irrevocable and applies equally to anyone acting or purporting to be acting on my behalf or for my benefit, whether…alive or dead [like Lisa McPherson]…disabled or incapacitated, and under any and all circumstances foreseen or unforeseen, in perpetuity, without exception or limitation.”
This comprehensive document appears designed to preempt any lawyer or public official from meaningful discovery regarding its member’s files, even posthumously.
The form states; “Anyone acting or purporting to be acting on my behalf or for my benefit ever seek access to any of my PC Folders…this Contract…a complete and sufficient basis for the immediate denial of whatever access is being sought…”
Scientology has never denied the teachings of OT-3, only tried to spin their way out of any meaningful discussion.
See [www.culteducation.com]
This is the most recent Rolling Stone article about Scientology.
An excerpt reads:
"Scientologists must be "invited" to do OT III. Beforehand, they are put through an intensive auditing process to verify that they are ready. They sign a waiver promising never to reveal the secrets of OT III, nor to hold Scientology responsible for any trauma or damage one might endure at this stage of auditing. Finally, they are given a manila folder, which they must read in a private, locked room.
These materials, which the Church of Scientology has long struggled to keep secret, were published online by a former member in 1995 and have been widely circulated in the mainstream media, ranging from The New York Times to last year's South Park episode. They assert that 75 million years ago, an evil galactic warlord named Xenu controlled seventy-six planets in this corner of the galaxy, each of which was severely overpopulated. To solve this problem, Xenu rounded up 13.5 trillion beings and then flew them to Earth, where they were dumped into volcanoes around the globe and vaporized with bombs. This scattered their radioactive souls, or thetans, until they were caught in electronic traps set up around the atmosphere and "implanted" with a number of false ideas -- including the concepts of God, Christ and organized religion. Scientologists later learn that many of these entities attached themselves to human beings, where they remain to this day, creating not just the root of all of our emotional and physical problems but the root of all problems of the modern world.
The church considers OT III confidential material. But there are numerous science-fiction references in Scientology texts available to members of all levels. The official "Glossary for Scientology and Dianetics" includes an entry for "space opera," a sci-fi genre that the glossary says "is not fiction and concerns actual incidents." Scientology's "Technical Dictionary" makes reference to a number of extraterrestrial "invader forces," including one, the "Marcab Confederacy," explained as a vast, interplanetary civilization more than 200,000 years old that "looks almost exact duplicate [sic] but is worse off than the current U.S. civilization." Indeed, as even Rinder himself points out, Hubbard presented a rough outline of the Xenu story to his followers in a 1967 taped lecture, "RJ 67," in which he noted that 75 million years ago a cataclysmic event happened in this sector of the galaxy that has caused negative effects for everyone since. This material is available to lower-level Scientologists. But the details of the story remain secret within Scientology.
Rinder has fielded questions on Scientology's beliefs for years. When I ask him whether there is any validity to the Xenu story, he gets red-faced, almost going into a tirade. "It is not a story, it is an auditing level," he says, neither confirming nor denying that this theology exists. He says that OT material -- and specifically the material on OT III -- comprises "a small percent" of what Scientology is all about. But it is carefully guarded. Scientologists on the OT levels often carry their materials in locked briefcases and are told to store them in special secure locations in their homes. They are also strictly forbidden from discussing any facet of the materials, even with their families. "I'm not explaining it to you, and I could not explain it to you," says Rinder heatedly. "You don't have a hope of understanding it."
FYI-One interesting thing cited in the Rolling Stone piece is that "the coroner's report described the father of Scientology as in a state of decrepitude: unshaven, with long, thinning whitish-red hair and unkempt fingernails and toenails. In Hubbard's system was the anti-anxiety drug hydroxyzine (Vistaril), which several of his assistants would later attest was only one of many psychiatric and pain medications Hubbard ingested over the years."
Interesting that the very drugs Scientologists protest were found in L. Ron Hubbard's body after his death.
Why do stars love such strange groups?
Posted by:
durham
()
Date: May 30, 2006 01:12PM
Quote
Scientology not telling you about its doctrinal belief in space aliens, body thetans and Xenu from the beginning is something like Jews forgetting to talk about Abraham or Moses. Or, Christians neglecting to tell you about the virgin birth.
I understand why you think that but I disagree because Scientology isn't based on faith at all. It's based on a set of procedures that you can try out for yourself to see that they work.
Yes if that's true Scientology would lose recruits because of the alien talk. But like I said it's not based on faith - so the only things I'll believe are those I have indubitable evidence for.Quote
1. Scientology would lose quite a few recruits, because they would think it's not believable.
2. They want you to keep paying to clear and beyond to OT-3 to find out.
That I doubt - I haven't seen anything like that.Quote
A document titled “Agreement and General Release Regarding Spiritual Assistance” states; “Others may think that I need psychiatric treatment…I instead desire to receive Scientology spiritual assistance…”
Well it's quite easy to check up that pyschiatrists are responsible for electro- & insulin-shock therapy, lobotomies etc. Usually though they just give you harmful drugs. Psychiatry is something you should look into for yourself - look at impartial sources.Quote
The same release form prohibits “any psychiatrist, medical person, designated member of the state or family member” from placing the Scientologist that signs into a hospital or facility for psychiatric treatment under any circumstances. And explicitly authorizes Scientology to “intercede” if they do.
Regarding PC folders - yes in some cases it wouldnt be good to see them for yourself - could be restimulating.
Regarding the coroner's report cited in Rolling Stone - what is the source?
Why do stars love such strange groups?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: May 30, 2006 07:55PM
durham:
It's sad to read your responses, but perhaps helpful to people reading this message board regarding Scientology.
What your responses demonstrate is that Scientologists are ignorant of their own religious teachings and that the church makes it so.
Xenu and the space aliens is a doctrinal belief of Scientology and it must be accepted through faith, because there is no proof.
The e-meter is also an object of faith, because there is no proof it can measure the negative reactive mind or anything other than nerveous tension.
The emeter is a galvonic response measuring aparatus and nothing more.
The so-called "purification rundown" does nothing, according to medical experts that have criticized the program.
This is why the FDNY dumped the detox programs Tom Cruise promoted for fireman and California schools stopped Narconon presentation within public schools.
That is, becasue Hubbard's theories are false and therefore have no benefit to offer, either as a cure or through education.
Again, that it does anything is a matter of faith for Scientologists.
If any of these things could be proven objectively Scientology would not be a church/religion, it would be a science.
It is not a proven science and never has been.
Instead Hubbard sought tax-exempt status specifically as a religion. This meant that none of his claims would need to be proven since Scientology is a religious faith, which essentially exempted him from consumer protection regulators such as the FDA.
There is no peer reviewed Scientific research published in any reputable scientific journal to prove any of Hubbard's claims regarding the human mind or his purification rituals.
You may contact Rolling Stone about the coroner's report, but they are typically a matter of record and filed with public records.
It's sad to read your responses, but perhaps helpful to people reading this message board regarding Scientology.
What your responses demonstrate is that Scientologists are ignorant of their own religious teachings and that the church makes it so.
Xenu and the space aliens is a doctrinal belief of Scientology and it must be accepted through faith, because there is no proof.
The e-meter is also an object of faith, because there is no proof it can measure the negative reactive mind or anything other than nerveous tension.
The emeter is a galvonic response measuring aparatus and nothing more.
The so-called "purification rundown" does nothing, according to medical experts that have criticized the program.
This is why the FDNY dumped the detox programs Tom Cruise promoted for fireman and California schools stopped Narconon presentation within public schools.
That is, becasue Hubbard's theories are false and therefore have no benefit to offer, either as a cure or through education.
Again, that it does anything is a matter of faith for Scientologists.
If any of these things could be proven objectively Scientology would not be a church/religion, it would be a science.
It is not a proven science and never has been.
Instead Hubbard sought tax-exempt status specifically as a religion. This meant that none of his claims would need to be proven since Scientology is a religious faith, which essentially exempted him from consumer protection regulators such as the FDA.
There is no peer reviewed Scientific research published in any reputable scientific journal to prove any of Hubbard's claims regarding the human mind or his purification rituals.
You may contact Rolling Stone about the coroner's report, but they are typically a matter of record and filed with public records.
Why do stars love such strange groups?
Posted by:
durham
()
Date: May 31, 2006 04:31PM
Believe me - it isn't sad - I'm much happier than ever before.Quote
rrmoderator
durham:
It's sad to read your responses, but perhaps helpful to people reading this message board regarding Scientology.
I'm not ignorant at all about this. I've read the websites you have plus I understand the other side of the coin.Quote
What your responses demonstrate is that Scientologists are ignorant of their own religious teachings and that the church makes it so.
If there's no proof then it's rubbish. Hubbard told people not to believe him unless they could get proof for themselves. I agree with that.Quote
Xenu and the space aliens is a doctrinal belief of Scientology and it must be accepted through faith, because there is no proof.
It's just a tool - whether it's measuring the negative reactive mind or nervous tension is irrelevant really as it gets results.Quote
The e-meter is also an object of faith, because there is no proof it can measure the negative reactive mind or anything other than nerveous tension.
The emeter is a galvonic response measuring aparatus and nothing more.
It's similar to a lie-detector.
[quote}The so-called "purification rundown" does nothing, according to medical experts that have criticized the program.
[/quote]
Well I've done it myself. I'd have to be a moron to believe those medical experts when I have black-and-white proof it works.
Why do stars love such strange groups?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: May 31, 2006 09:21PM
durham:
Repeatedly people ask the same question over and over again in my work.
"How can someone get involved in something like Scientology"?
The implication being that there must be something wrong with those taken in by Scientology since the organization, its founder and his teachings have been exposed through the press.
Well, thanks for helping everyone to understand how and/or why that happens.
You say that you have "investigated" and supposedly "researched Scientology, yet as you have demonstrated here through your posts you actually know very little about the organization, its founder and history.
You have not even reached "clear," let alone an OT level. You only know what you have paid to find out thus far, and it's not much.
The chronology of your enlightenment is rather revealing. You seem to be someone who wants to believe, and you cite supposed proof of things that cannot be proven demonstrating this.
It seems you were predisposed to believe whatever Scientology would tell you, as long as what they said made you feel good.
Combine that with their process of indoctrination, which many say is little more than "brainwashing" and you end up where you are now, which seems to be willing to accept virtually anything they say or any apology they might offer regarding their history, bad press, etc.
One example is the Scientology response to why people oppose them, which is a transparently self-serving response of an organization that refuses to accept responsibility for its behavior.
The more obvious answer is that people oppose Scientology because of its bad behavior, policies and that its teachings don't work.
See [www.cultnews.com]
Scientology is ranked lower than Islam as one of the most, unpopular religions in America. Even Islam, despite “Muslim terrorists” and rioting radicals making headlines, is seen better.
Specifically, Americans are twice as likely to view Islam favorably than Scientology.
The poll conducted by CBS News was actually focused on measuring the perception of Islam amongst Americans and not Scientology, but other religions were named and came up and also were measured in poll results.
CBS found that amongst Americans 45% said they have an unfavorable view of Islam, a rise from 36% in February reports Daily Times in Pakistan.
Only 19% of had a favorable view of Islam, compared to 30% in 2002.
But only 8% of the American public view Scientology favvorably according to the CBS poll, which is less than one in ten.
Other faiths ranked are also follows; 58% had a favorable impression of Protestantism, 48% of Catholicism, 47% of the Jewish religion, 31% of Christian fundamentalist religions and 20% of the Mormon religion.
Scientology's explanation, which you have accepted, not only doesn't make sense, it demonstrates again why the church is so unpopular. There is no dialog about its mistakes, but rather only denial and a complete refusal to even address issues about its behavior.
For example, L. Ron Hubbard's bio.
You seem to think that there is another "version" of his recorded life. As if his military record, court records, school records are subjective. And he is somehow his "genius" was "obvious" despite the records that objectively demonstrate otherwise and the first hand accounts of his own son, former wives and associates.
Again, beleiving in Hubbard for Scientologists appears to be a matter of faith, not something based upon facts.
Anyone that seriously investigates and does research about the man can easily establish that, as numerous press articles demonstrate.
Quote:
I don't get angry or upset about stuff if I don't want to. It's a nice way to be - things feel much more serene and exciting than they used to be
This is how many cult members respond. There is a certain serenity in surrender to the group and its mindset, which makes cult members feel good. The group has all the answers and there is no more need to struggle, "it's a nice way to be" and increasingly it's about how they "feel" not what they think.
This can be seen in part as an inate desire by many to seek something that makes them feel good regardless of the consequences. Much like a drug addict or an alcoholic. In addition cult members experience the group process of persuasion or indoctrination, which is often called brainwashing.
The psychologist Margaret Singer broke this down to six conditions that follow in succession.
1. Keep the person unaware of what is going on and the changes taking place (e.g. Scientology doesn't allow people to know their entire program or teachings until they pay to reach each level therefore an initiate cannot make a fully informed decision about joing the religion, since they don't actually know what it is all about).
2. Control the person's time and, if possible, physical environment. (e.g. in Scientology this is done by taking up the person's time with courses, auditing, programs, etc. and increasingly they tend to associate more and more with other Scientologists.
3. Create a sense of powerlessness, covert fear, and dependency.(e.g. in Scientology this is accomplished through teachings about the negative reactive mind, suppression, suppresive people, engrams, auditing etc. Eventually the Scientologist will also fear the influence of body thetans).
4. Suppress much of the person's old behavior and attitudes. (e.g. in Scientology this is accomplished through its course work and auditing. Scientologists are taught to label anything they think or feel that is contrary to Scientology's preferred way of thinking and feeling as negative, suppresive etc.).
5. Instill new behavior and attitudes. (e.g. in Scientology this is accomplished also through course work and auditting, conversely to number four above. That is, whatever Scientology says is a good behavior or attitude is acceptable and adopted by the Scientologist).
6. Put forth a closed system of logic; allow no real input or criticism. (e.g. in Scinetology Hubbard's teachings are absolute. He is always right and if you disagree you are wrong. Hubbards teachings are what noted psychiatrist and thought reform expert Robert Jay Lifton called a "Sacred Science."
Liftons says that this Sacred Science becomes "an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence. This sacredness is evident in the prohibition (whether or not explicit) against the questioning of basic assumptions, and in the reverence which is demanded for the originators of the Word, the present bearers of the Word, and the Word itself. While thus transcending ordinary concerns of logic, however, the milieu at the same time makes an exaggerated claim of airtight logic, of absolute "scientific" precision. Thus the ultimate moral vision becomes an ultimate science; and the man who dares to criticize it, or to harbor even unspoken alternative ideas, becomes not only immoral and irreverent, but also "unscientific." In this way, the philosopher kings of modern ideological totalism reinforce their authority by claiming to share in the rich and respected heritage of natural science."
This is the most obvious facet of Scientology that corresponds to what can be seen easily as thought reform or "brainwashing."
See [www.culteducation.com]
This is a complete description of the eight criteria Lifton used to establish if a group or organization is using "thought reform."
See [www.culteducation.com]
This chart by Singer demonstrates the gradations of influence from education through advertising to thought reform.
At the bottom of the chart is a list of Singer's six conditions along with Lifton's eight criteria and how they correspond with each other.
Repeatedly people ask the same question over and over again in my work.
"How can someone get involved in something like Scientology"?
The implication being that there must be something wrong with those taken in by Scientology since the organization, its founder and his teachings have been exposed through the press.
Well, thanks for helping everyone to understand how and/or why that happens.
You say that you have "investigated" and supposedly "researched Scientology, yet as you have demonstrated here through your posts you actually know very little about the organization, its founder and history.
You have not even reached "clear," let alone an OT level. You only know what you have paid to find out thus far, and it's not much.
The chronology of your enlightenment is rather revealing. You seem to be someone who wants to believe, and you cite supposed proof of things that cannot be proven demonstrating this.
It seems you were predisposed to believe whatever Scientology would tell you, as long as what they said made you feel good.
Combine that with their process of indoctrination, which many say is little more than "brainwashing" and you end up where you are now, which seems to be willing to accept virtually anything they say or any apology they might offer regarding their history, bad press, etc.
One example is the Scientology response to why people oppose them, which is a transparently self-serving response of an organization that refuses to accept responsibility for its behavior.
The more obvious answer is that people oppose Scientology because of its bad behavior, policies and that its teachings don't work.
See [www.cultnews.com]
Scientology is ranked lower than Islam as one of the most, unpopular religions in America. Even Islam, despite “Muslim terrorists” and rioting radicals making headlines, is seen better.
Specifically, Americans are twice as likely to view Islam favorably than Scientology.
The poll conducted by CBS News was actually focused on measuring the perception of Islam amongst Americans and not Scientology, but other religions were named and came up and also were measured in poll results.
CBS found that amongst Americans 45% said they have an unfavorable view of Islam, a rise from 36% in February reports Daily Times in Pakistan.
Only 19% of had a favorable view of Islam, compared to 30% in 2002.
But only 8% of the American public view Scientology favvorably according to the CBS poll, which is less than one in ten.
Other faiths ranked are also follows; 58% had a favorable impression of Protestantism, 48% of Catholicism, 47% of the Jewish religion, 31% of Christian fundamentalist religions and 20% of the Mormon religion.
Scientology's explanation, which you have accepted, not only doesn't make sense, it demonstrates again why the church is so unpopular. There is no dialog about its mistakes, but rather only denial and a complete refusal to even address issues about its behavior.
For example, L. Ron Hubbard's bio.
You seem to think that there is another "version" of his recorded life. As if his military record, court records, school records are subjective. And he is somehow his "genius" was "obvious" despite the records that objectively demonstrate otherwise and the first hand accounts of his own son, former wives and associates.
Again, beleiving in Hubbard for Scientologists appears to be a matter of faith, not something based upon facts.
Anyone that seriously investigates and does research about the man can easily establish that, as numerous press articles demonstrate.
Quote:
I don't get angry or upset about stuff if I don't want to. It's a nice way to be - things feel much more serene and exciting than they used to be
This is how many cult members respond. There is a certain serenity in surrender to the group and its mindset, which makes cult members feel good. The group has all the answers and there is no more need to struggle, "it's a nice way to be" and increasingly it's about how they "feel" not what they think.
This can be seen in part as an inate desire by many to seek something that makes them feel good regardless of the consequences. Much like a drug addict or an alcoholic. In addition cult members experience the group process of persuasion or indoctrination, which is often called brainwashing.
The psychologist Margaret Singer broke this down to six conditions that follow in succession.
1. Keep the person unaware of what is going on and the changes taking place (e.g. Scientology doesn't allow people to know their entire program or teachings until they pay to reach each level therefore an initiate cannot make a fully informed decision about joing the religion, since they don't actually know what it is all about).
2. Control the person's time and, if possible, physical environment. (e.g. in Scientology this is done by taking up the person's time with courses, auditing, programs, etc. and increasingly they tend to associate more and more with other Scientologists.
3. Create a sense of powerlessness, covert fear, and dependency.(e.g. in Scientology this is accomplished through teachings about the negative reactive mind, suppression, suppresive people, engrams, auditing etc. Eventually the Scientologist will also fear the influence of body thetans).
4. Suppress much of the person's old behavior and attitudes. (e.g. in Scientology this is accomplished through its course work and auditing. Scientologists are taught to label anything they think or feel that is contrary to Scientology's preferred way of thinking and feeling as negative, suppresive etc.).
5. Instill new behavior and attitudes. (e.g. in Scientology this is accomplished also through course work and auditting, conversely to number four above. That is, whatever Scientology says is a good behavior or attitude is acceptable and adopted by the Scientologist).
6. Put forth a closed system of logic; allow no real input or criticism. (e.g. in Scinetology Hubbard's teachings are absolute. He is always right and if you disagree you are wrong. Hubbards teachings are what noted psychiatrist and thought reform expert Robert Jay Lifton called a "Sacred Science."
Liftons says that this Sacred Science becomes "an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence. This sacredness is evident in the prohibition (whether or not explicit) against the questioning of basic assumptions, and in the reverence which is demanded for the originators of the Word, the present bearers of the Word, and the Word itself. While thus transcending ordinary concerns of logic, however, the milieu at the same time makes an exaggerated claim of airtight logic, of absolute "scientific" precision. Thus the ultimate moral vision becomes an ultimate science; and the man who dares to criticize it, or to harbor even unspoken alternative ideas, becomes not only immoral and irreverent, but also "unscientific." In this way, the philosopher kings of modern ideological totalism reinforce their authority by claiming to share in the rich and respected heritage of natural science."
This is the most obvious facet of Scientology that corresponds to what can be seen easily as thought reform or "brainwashing."
See [www.culteducation.com]
This is a complete description of the eight criteria Lifton used to establish if a group or organization is using "thought reform."
See [www.culteducation.com]
This chart by Singer demonstrates the gradations of influence from education through advertising to thought reform.
At the bottom of the chart is a list of Singer's six conditions along with Lifton's eight criteria and how they correspond with each other.
Why do stars love such strange groups?
Posted by:
durham
()
Date: May 31, 2006 09:54PM
answered in the tom cruse thread.
Why do stars love such strange groups?
Posted by:
upsidedownnewspaper
()
Date: June 12, 2006 12:44PM
Quote
nutrino
"Much like the man playing him, Ethan works only if you don't know anything about what makes him tick."
Perfect line. Because the truth is, I suspect, that nothing makes Tom Cruise tick anymore. Scientology has audited out the effects on Tom's life of childhood dyslexia and an upbringing by a psychologically (physically?) abusive father (step-father?).
What we see now is the permanent celebrity glaze of a Tom Cruise lobotomized. Life past and future will not shock, jolt, impress, amuse, please, sadden this celebrity zombie anymore. Oh, except a squirt in the face from a water pistol might temporarily rouse him.
Life as a dyslexic up-and-coming star must have been a hell of a rollercoaster for Tom. But now, through his Scientology studies, it is a paradisic flat one with no height or age restrictions. It doesn't go up or down and it isn't very fast, don't worry. In fact, it doesn't move. Smile and enjoy the ride!
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