Madonna - Kabbalah - Children
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: February 26, 2004 04:02AM

I don't want to kick a man when he is down, but the plea for financial help on that guys website is interesting, considering his claims as a Master of:
Druidism, Paganism, Witchcraft, magic(k), liturgical design, polytheology, and polyamory.

Just scroll down a little bit.


A very good checklist!

Check it out right here at:


Madonna - Kabbalah - Children
Posted by: carolz ()
Date: February 27, 2004 11:12PM

I'm glad y'all like the ABCDEF! I try to forward it around whenever appropriate. My anti-cult attitude goes back nearly 30 years ago when the first publicity about the Moonies came out. My attitude was confirmed when I got to college and saw the various cult groups recruiting on campus. I'm glad I was put wise early on, though I did inadvertently get hooked into a cult-like Catholic situation for a little while (can't be anything cult-like about Catholicism, right? I ask ironically), but harsh reality (the priest asking a boarder for sex in lieu of rent, his enjoyment of teen prostitutes, and other disgusting behavior) "deprogrammed" me right quick! It took several more years to deprogram from Catholic dogma and other destructive concepts that nearly killed me. I'm now doing my own thing as a happy Pagan!

Cosmophilosopher, regarding his plea for money, it is legit as far as I know. He was disabled by that eosinophilia illness people got from taking contaminated tryptophan about 20 years ago. It nearly killed him. He's made a slow recovery, but he's still physically messed up from it and afaik still genuinely disabled.

All those titles don't mean a heck of a lot in terms of earning potential because there ain't no money in Paganism!!! He's got several books out, but unless they became bestsellers (Silver RavenWolf is a notable exception), they're not gonna pay his bills. He was Arch Druid of ADF, a Druid organization, but had to step down due to his health. He does make some money making personal appearances at festivals and doing workshops, but again, the difference between a Pagan workshop and a New Age workshop is the placement of the decimal point!

Like most of the Pagan community leaders I've met (met him in 1996, and my sister was a board member of ADF for a while), he has very little money (I think it's a hangover from hippy days that making money is a bad thing to some Pagans), drives a beater (if at all), doesn't own much except books and a computer. He doesn't dress well at all, and has the grungy look of a perpetual student/intellectual.

I like what this guy has to say overall. He's a gadfly and gets people to think. His books are good, and he constantly tells people to question and test everything all the time. If you can spare a buck or two in thanks for the ABCDEF, then I'm sure it would be appreciated. Unlike a televangelist or New Age guru, he could really use the money. JMO.

Madonna - Kabbalah - Children
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: February 28, 2004 02:21AM

Well, there is certainly no money in polyamory!
That sounds more like an expense!


Madonna - Kabbalah - Children
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 28, 2004 11:05AM

And some of it is downright hilarious.

If you go here you can read how he got involved in Anton La Vey's Church of Satan and discovered that La Vey was an imposter.

[] - 36k

Madonna - Kabbalah - Children
Posted by: PennyBright ()
Date: February 28, 2004 11:58AM

Nice to see Isaac's ABCDEF getting some notice here -- it's one of the main useful anti-cult tools that can be found in the neo-pagan community. Doesn't get as much spread around as it should, in my opinion.

Isaac Bonewits = old time BNP*, with a reputation as a slightly friendly curmudgeon, or was that slightly curmudgeonly friend? Less flaky then most, in my opinion. On my 'Good Guy' list.


*BNP - Big Name Pagan

Madonna - Kabbalah - Children
Posted by: carolz ()
Date: March 05, 2004 09:30PM

LOL to Cosmophilosopher! I guess not as long as one has to pay (p)alimony to all one's lovers past and present!

Corboy, I'm glad you've enjoyed reading some of Isaac's essays. PennyBright spoke eloquently and amusingly of Isaac's reputation in the Pagan community. There is no lukewarm in most people's opinions of Isaac -- most seem to either love him or hate him. I think those who "hate" him are 1) envious of his BNP status; 2) are in la-la-land when it comes to some truths they don't want to hear; or 3) they don't like opinionated people.

Like PennyBright, I chalk him up on my Good Guy list. His heart is genuinely in the right place(s, lol), he's not afraid to speak truth, he makes people think (drags people kicking and screaming into the cobwebby portions of their craniums) and he's damned intelligent! I love his essays, especially the one on fundamentalism (and an associated essay). He calls fundamentalism (another kind of cultism) a disease that those of us who aren't fundies need to battle worldwide no matter what form it takes. He also gives an eloquent explanation of why our criticism of fundamentalism isn't "intolerance", but fundie intolerance is genuine intolerance.

His essay on Anton LaVey is hilarious! LaVey was never a cult leader in the pathological sense - he was a showman and a carnival act and made sure everyone knew it. If anyone bought what he was selling, he chalked it up to the Barnum Effect (sucker born every minute). What's hilarious is how many "mundanes" ever took him seriously!

I'm glad to see the positive feedback on the ABCDEF, too. Its Pagan source doesn't automatically invalidate its usefulness for non-Pagans, and it's based on sound principles. You can use it to evaluate *any* group, yet it leaves open the possibility that some people might *like/want* to be controlled by others in certain areas of their life. The idea is to go into a situation with one's eyes open so as to not get into a personally undesirable situation.

Fortunately, Paganism is blessedly free of cultish tendencies, though some exist. (I read the posts on OTO -- it's been around for years, and while not a cult itself, some individual groups within it might function as very small-scale cults with fewer than a couple dozen people if there is a charismatic and ruthless leader in charge.) In all my years involved in Wicca, I've only personally run into two groups that seemed to function cultishly, and only heard about a small handful of others -- always very small scale.

The Pagan community is very good at policing groups that use any kind of coercion, especially where sexual exploitation is concerned. Word gets out that so-and-so requires initiates to have sex with him/her, and that's it for that "leader". While we believe that adults are personally responsible for their own lives and decisions, we also realize that there are sometimes needy or vulnerable adults that will obey anyone they see as a leader against their better judgment.

I know we've veered off the topic of celebs, but good to get anti-cult info out there! BTW, Mad Mad House started last night on SCI-FI, and so far, it looks like Voudoun and Wicca are being portrayed respectfully if not sensationalistically. I wonder how much Fiona Horne's celebrity status will do for/against Wicca? Note that most celebs who are into Wicca don't advertise it because of potential negative backlash even worse than what Madonna gets for her faddish spirituality. Still too many misconceptions about equating Wicca to devil worship out there. Being Wiccan is potentially worse for someone's reputation than being homosexual, and Wiccans fight the same battles that the GLBT community does, but the fundies hate Wiccans even more than they hate GLBTs.

Madonna - Kabbalah - Children
Posted by: sarahsplight ()
Date: March 08, 2004 10:52AM

I am a new member and just viewed this information. I have watched Madonna on the Oprah show talk about the greatness of Kabbalah. She may have not seen the other side which celebrities are shielded from. I assume she donates a lot of money to them. Let her stop giving them money and then see how they react.
I have close ties with a member of Kabbalah center. I constantly hear this person say, among other things: "you should give money to the Kabbalah Center till it hurts!"

If God gave the knowledge of Kabbalah, it was for free. People should not use God's name, spiritual manipulation in order to fleece money from people. That is NOT spiritual.

Madonna - Kabbalah - Children
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: June 18, 2004 12:05PM

I wonder, is Madonna/Esther "brainwashed" by these people and is now a True Believer, or is she and her people just continuing with a new Phase of media manipulation?

Prince is now a Jehovah Witness as well.

Something stinks about all this stuff to me.


(Reuters) -- Assuming a newly modest public image more in keeping with that of a nice Jewish girl than a "Material Girl," pop star Madonna says she has adopted the Hebrew name of Esther.


Madonna - Kabbalah - Children
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: June 19, 2004 10:49AM

Just saw the new 20/20 fluff sycophantic interview with Madonna, where she was yapping constantly about her New Cult.
Is obvious she is under the spell of the guy running that cult, and its just as obvious she is not very bright, and is quite simple minded.

On the other hand, she has a new tour, and is mainly attracting her older fans, so she needs to come up with a new Image to sell herself with, that is more "grown up".
I think a large part of this stuff is just a new technique to get media attention. Its some "crazy red ribbon cult stuff" to attract Attention.

She has failed terribly as an actress, so now she needs to pull another rabbit out of the hat, to promote herself.

She used Sex to sell herself, now she is trying to use God.
I think she is trying to play games with her fans minds, simply to attract attention.

Same old.


Madonna - Kabbalah - Children
Posted by: SeekerOfTruth ()
Date: July 13, 2004 12:51AM

You can make your own Kabbalah Water or any type of Water that has POSITIVE Energy Charged to it.

Just by writing positive messages on the bottles of water, playing positive music next to it or even a Buddhist Prayer has the same effect.

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