This will not be a deep analysis but, last night having been invited to V for Vendetta (regrettably i didn't read a review or know who the producers/script writers were) which now figures to be the most artless movie I've seen to date ...

At one point in the movie the co-protagonist is tortured secretly and brutally by the supposed protagonist. This is supposedly meant to cleanse her from her fears or some such mumbo jumbo as it's presented in the movie. She's been brainwashed and brutalized but that's ok because V is all powerful and faultless. V has no identity either, just a mask wearing ball of scar tissue. The most absurdist movie I've seen in a long time.

And we're supposed to take this as fine, they are fighting a fascist regime so it's fine. A means to an end, hey we have to blow up the parliament after all. And the chick buys it hook line and sinker, the stupid naif. She even kisses the fucker and lovingly sends him down the river covered in roses.

Welcome to GURU in the cinema. Submit to torture, thought reform it's ok joe public we know what's best. Welcome to an obvious power vacuum (V kills the chancelor and his second in command) and social choas because the only solution is destruction. We'll free you mind and you can do the dirty work.

And it strikes me now that their other very popular movie the matrix was basically scientology beliefs sexed up for the big screen (IMHO). What are these fuckers getting away with I wonder?

So a heads up cause I think these two are part of a growing shadow pyramid. What the bleep and it's ilk ...

I'm SO glad I didn't go see that last weekend with my husband and his friends. It looked way too violent and stupid for my taste. He came home raving about how great it was, and my stepdaughter now says it's her favorite film. Amazing the crap people will go for if it's in movie format!

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Kastlefeer
So a heads up cause I think these two are part of a growing shadow pyramid. What the bleep and it's ilk ...

I was amused to see you make that connection. Both What the Bleep and the Matrix use the theme of "down the rabbit hole".

Also, as a fan of the original V for Vendetta comic, I should note that the movie was a complete distortion of the comic, and Alan Moore the comic writer has disowned the movie and sees it as trash.

I was excited to see it at first, but when I heard what it was like and after the Wachowskis last two Matrix movies, I knew it would be bad.

a case of what happens when men abuse estrogen ?

shakti, what did the film do to the original that you didn't like? I have read the comic book but not the adaptation.

Kastlefeer, on a factual note, popular rumor has it that the Wachowski's got involved with Landmark, not the Church of Scientology. I say, "popular rumor", because a LEC grad who looked into it says she found their names on the enrollment records.

as for [i:38737ddc3a]V For Vendetta[/i:38737ddc3a] (again, I have read the comic book but not seen the movie adaptation), as someone said, "all great art nearly says the opposite of what it really says."

if you consider this film a simple endorsement of the value of obedience I really think you have gotten it wrong.

[b:38737ddc3a]spoilers for [i:38737ddc3a]V For Vendetta[/i:38737ddc3a][/b:38737ddc3a]

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Kastlefeer
At one point in the movie the co-protagonist is tortured secretly and brutally by the supposed protagonist. This is supposedly meant to cleanse her from her fears or some such mumbo jumbo as it's presented in the movie.

in the comic book (I haven't seen the film), V convinces Evey think that the secret police have captured her, brutalizes her (in the guise of the police) and attempts to extract from her the information that she thinks will betray V. she refuses. when informed that "they" will execute her. she still doesn't break. her values matter to her more than her own life.

[b:38737ddc3a]end spoilers[/b:38737ddc3a]

fiction deals with both universals and particulars. you seem to have gotten these confused and think that the story presents a universal message that if a guru submits you to psychological or physical severity that he or she means it for the best. the scenes have a context. if you took those particular scenes out of context, V would, if anything, come off as a total tyrant and evil.

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She's been brainwashed and brutalized but that's ok because V is all powerful and faultless.

I do agree than, in V himself, Alan Moore created an unrealistically uncorruptible symbol, what AM's compatriot Michael Moorcock called a "Magic Parent" who you can always, ultimately trust. (almost every work of fiction has at least one characer like that.)

[b:38737ddc3a]spoilers[/b:38737ddc3a]

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Welcome to an obvious power vacuum (V kills the chancelor and his second in command) and social choas because the only solution is destruction.

the comic book has V saying that a period of disorder will follow the collapse of the government, after which he thinks (know?) that a more equitable form of anarchy will evolve. whether or not this would happen IRL, who knows. in the comic book, authorial intent seems to indicate that will happen.

[b:38737ddc3a]spoilers[/b:38737ddc3a]

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We'll free you mind and you can do the dirty work.

sure. because up until that point the government and its allies (media and religion) had not only informed the ideology, it can taken care of all the "dirty work" itself, which included imprisoning, jailing, torturing those who threatened it and having largesse over the people who allowed that state of affairs to continue.

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nutrino
a case of what happens when men abuse estrogen ?

as nutrino and I have already discussed via PM, as a MTF transsexual I pretty strenuously disagree with the "what happens when men abuse estrogen" crack.

that said, carry on culting!

I may have lost some of the message in the context that was presented in this movie, fine nit-pick if you want.

If someone tortures me to test my values or loyalty i'm not gonna give them a sloppy kiss on the mouth when it's over, I'm going to take one of V's knives and shove it his fricking spine, fascist regime in power or not.

The whole of the movie tries to be cute and slick, and turns out to be bloody confusing and a shit adaptation. The whole of the movie left me disgusted. All the allegorical elements could be seen coming a mile away and I would rather watch a doc criticising the bush and blair show with facts and history then absurd allusions.

Some things that piss me off, Koran said to be filled with beautiful poetry. I could be arsed I'm an atheist, nice try jackass.

All the egg breaking, poahced egg making, was this some sort of manifesto imagery, alluding to mass murderer but glorious comrad STALIN? And yes bloody revolution is fine, don't be afraid like the chick, it's ok torture her for the good of the country?

The torture of the girl really bothered me, was it supposed to be ironic or something?

If V didn't trust her he could have interned her humanely and magically overthrow the fascists with his superpowers like he did in any case. Instead we get glorification of violence, and a lot of stupid allegory and obvious pandering to a certain mindset.

Movies should try to be more genuinely creative I think.

well having survived psychological torture similar to evey in v...i appreciated seeing it depicted in v....i appreciated that he was a villian and a hero...paradox, woah!!! didn't get a lot of that in the cult i was part of...but anyway...i appreciated seeing the psychological torture depicted. i appreciated that she was loyal to the sob and emerged 'a warrior' and saw that her gugu had feet of clay. i appreciated that she grappled with the love she STILL felt for her abuser/guru (paradox again!) and i loved most of all when she sent him in the train with lots of flowers to his death..teehee...and then, all the masses rise up out of the movie theater and don v masks--my interpretation of this...we each get sick of the cults we subscribe to. we each take our power back. we each learn to question authority in our own way! we each become v---but we fight our own fights and are revolutionaries for what we believe to be true...we each think clearly and for ourselves...i just loved v....
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