Interesting article supplied by shakti.

Make very sure to read the comments section, too.

My my.

Googled Larouche and Zeitgeist Movement. Look what comes up.

[www.google.com]

First link

"LaRouche PAC - Lyndon LaRouche 1 Year, 3 Months ago Karma: 4
Here is the link to Lyndon LaRouche's web site that I mentioned at the gathering. larouchepac.com/

I recommend sitting through some of his 3 hour long web casts, as well as watching some of the movies he has made to spread awareness. Here are some links to what I found worth watching.

LaRouche Webcast: The Program for World-Economic Recovery

Lyndon LaRouche Webcast
From Washington, D.C.
October 1, 2008

larouchepac.com/news/2008/10/01/larouche...e-ever-big-four.html

The New Dark Age

larouchepac.com/node/11851


1932

larouchepac.com/lpactv?nid=9166

I have watched other very informative things on their web site, but can't remember exactly which ones, but I'm sure if you enjoy the ones I've listed here, you will find more on their web site on your own.

When I look at what is currently going on in the world, and the Zeitgeist Movement logically, I realize that the direction that Lyndon LaRouche is trying to get us to go now, is probably the most logical. That of course does not mean that I don't see the Zeitgeist Movements goal as our final destination, but I am aware of the obstacles in our path, and always looking for tools and ways to get around or avoid those obstacles. Lyndon LaRouche presents a path to help us get beyond our current obstacle. Only then, will we be able to continue on our way to a resource based economy.

Doctors don't operate on a patient until they are healthy enough to survive the operation, unless it is a matter of life or death. Why should we be any different. We are not yet in a life or death situation, so why should we be trying to make this operation to transform from our current society, before we get ourselves healthy enough to survive the operation? Lyndon LaRouche presents a way to make us strong enough to survive the operation. It's logical, and probably has the best chances for success. Once we are healthy, the operation will become less dangerous, more obvious and easier for people to accept.

I can't say that I totally agree with some of the tactics that Lyndon LaRouche uses, but I accept that he knows his stuff, and he is probably just a bitter old man, who has been fighting this battle his whole life. So, if he wants to call a nazi a nazi, so be it. I'm am extremely proud and grateful to know he is on our side!
MichaelP (User)

Strength in Numbers!

Posts: 296
[chapters.thezeitgeistmovement.com]

and

Lyndon LaRouche to debate with Jacque Fresco! 1 Year, 4 Months ago
I would love to see this headline, or topic post for real.

Even though most people in this movement that I have mentioned my support of Lyndon LaRouche to, have taken the stance that he is going the wrong direction, therefore we shouldn't support him, I still think he is a very valuable asset to our cause, and we should use every tool that he provides us. Not only to further the goals of TZM, but to help us prepare for total annihilation that we currently face. He seems to really know his stuff, and is very aware of what is currently going on in the government, not only here in the United States, but other governments around the world as well.

The thing that Jacque Fresco and Lyndon LaRouche have in common, is that they are really the only two people that have put forth a reasonable solution for a better future. Of course, I believe Lyndon is missing the point that Jacque makes about technological unemployment, but his conviction to doing the right thing and regaining control of our country, has earned my respect for his ideas. Since these two respectable men are really the only two that have reasonable suggestions, I would love to see a debate between them. Not to decide who is right or wrong, but to decide what is the best solution for the future, that we might actually succeed with.

The ideas of TZM are the future, but they may not be the immediate future. I'm having a hard time believing that people will throw away everything they know, to support something as far fetched as TZM. People like Lyndon LaRouche may be able to bridge that gap, between where we are right now, and where we are headed in the future of humanity. What LaRouche proposes would remove some of the insanity that many live in, allowing them to open their minds and explore new ideas, which will lead to a resource based economy.

What is important right now, is waking people up to the reality and dangers that we face right now. The end of the world as we know it, could be only days or weeks away. I am a strong believer in TZM, and will always strive to make it a reality, but right now my gut is telling me to be more concerned about my health and well being, than to focus too much on the resourced based economy.

When I ride motorcycles in large groups, I am always aware of what is going on at the head of the pack, so I can be prepared for what is to come, but at the same time, I am more concerned about what is going on with the bike directly in front of me. People in this movement need to take that kind of approach, right now, more than ever. Keep your faith that the movement is continuing in the right direction, but at this time, we need to be more concerned about the dangers that are right in front of us, and be less concerned about what is going on up front.

The time that Jacque and others have talked about, could be only days away. Do you think we have enough influence right now to take control in the event of the collapse? I don't think so. But, Lyndon LaRouche may have enough influence to make people wake up and make the changes that need to be made to avoid this massive collision that is about to take place.

I strongly urge everyone to add larouchepac.com/ to their favorites, and visit his site daily, for real news updates about our current crisis. His web casts are powerful tools to use as well. There are also several well made documentaries that will help inform people of the enemy and crisis we face. The New Dark Age - larouchepac.com/node/11851

I believe it's only a matter of time before Mr. LaRouche sees the importance of the resource based economy, and starts to support our cause. Until then, we should get behind him, and help ensure his message is heard. The resource based economy is the most important thing to humanity, but right now the most important thing is to survive, so we can make the RBE a reality. I don't see how we can survive, if we don't follow Lyndon LaRouche, to get us to the next level we need to reach.

Don't lose focus of the head of the pack, but more importantly, don't take your eyes off of what is going on right in front of you!

[www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]


These were the first two in a google search on larouche and zeitgeist

"

[www.google.com]

About 2,740 results (0.17 seconds)
Search ResultsLaRouche PAC - Lyndon LaRouche - Zeitgeist Washington ChapterNov 27, 2009 ... The Zeitgeist Movement - Washington State Chapter. LaRouche PAC - Lyndon LaRouche - Main Forum - Chapter Discussions - Zeitgeist Washington ...
chapters.thezeitgeistmovement.com/wa/index.php?...5... - CachedLyndon LaRouche to debate with Jacque Fresco! - The Zeitgeist MovementThe Zeitgeist Movement. Lyndon LaRouche to debate with Jacque Fresco! (1/1 ...
www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?... - CachedLyndon LaRouche - The Zeitgeist Movement3 posts - 3 authors
The Zeitgeist Movement. Lyndon LaRouche (1/1) - Public Forum in English ...
[thezeitgeistmovement.com]?... - CachedGet more discussion results
Lyndon Larouche - The Zeitgeist Movement2 posts - 2 authors
The Zeitgeist Movement. Lyndon Larouche (1/1) - Public Forum in English ...
thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option... - CachedShow more results from thezeitgeistmovement.comGet more discussion results
Zeitgeist ExposedMar 20, 2010 ... The Case of Jeremiah Duggan, and the truth about Lyndon LaRouche ..... I am a member of the Zeitgeist movement but feel your ideas to some ...
thethirdestate.net/2010/03/zeitgeist-exposed/ - United Kingdom - CachedSpace for discussion on the "Zeitgeist" movement | "International ...3 posts - Last post: Feb 7, 2010
Some of the key figures in the Zeitgeist movement include Lyndon LaRouche who was (allegedly - don't sue) involved in the racist murder of ...
www.emancipating-education-for-all.org/discussion_zeitgeist_movement - CachedGet more discussion results
critique of the Zeitgeist movie | FacebookA Larouche Youth Movement recruiter? Zeitgeist is sort of like where atheism turns ..... I think that's what the film and the Zeitgeist Movement tries to ...
www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2510875735&topic... - Cached - SimilarDailymotion - 12.03.09 LaRouche Webcast Excerpt: Break the British ...Nov 12, 2009 ... [www.larouchepac.com] -- From Q and A of Lyndon LaRouche's ... The Zeitgeist Movement: Orientation Presentation by Peter Joseph, ...
www.dailymotion.com › home › news & politics › videos - CachedDailymotion - 11.11.09 LaRouche Webcast Question: The Rold of Gold ...Nov 20, 2009 ... LaRouche answers someone asking what the role of gold. ...
www.dailymotion.com › home › news & politics › videos - CachedShow more results from dailymotion.comHD — LaRouche Webcast: December 3, 2009 – “The Real Change Is ...16 posts - 13 authors - Last post: Sep 8, 2010
What is the LaRouche Movements view on The Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project although the methods are different they seem to share ...
bankruptcyscotland.com/hd-larouche-webcast-december-3-2009-the-real- change-is-coming.html - Cached

Fresco and the Raelians

Started here

[zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com]

Googled Fresco and Raelian

Got this

[www.google.com]

"Jacques Fresco Honorary Guide of the Raelian Movement
Rael has bestowed the title of Honorary Guide of the Raelian Movement to Jacques Fresco.
Mr. Fresco is 92 years old and was born in the USA. He is a self-taught scientist, architect and inventor who has also been deeply committed his whole life to investigation into human behavior and humanity’s future. You can see several of his interviews ranging from 1974 to today on You Tube. His You Tube channel is:
[www.youtube.com]

For the Prophet Rael to name Jacques an Honorary Guide (aka Honorary Priest) of the Raelian Movement means that Jacques has dedicated his life to the betterment of Humanity as a whole. Not just one country, one race, one religion, but the whole of humanity.

Jacques has brilliant insight into the workings of society. He has even been called a modern day Leonardo da Vinci. He has had a project for many years called “The Venus Project” which any futurist knows well. His whole life, Fresco has been redesigning culture and has developed plans to rebuild the world as we know it whether it is architecture, travel or, most importantly, society.

Jacques has researched, observed nature as well as society and has either proven or explained many things which are in complete harmony with what Rael has been teaching for 35 years. Among these things are the notions that science should be placed at the service of humanity as a whole instead of only the rich and powerful, that competition in the world is very dangerous and comparing this to the human body by making the analogy that one organ in the body is not more important than another. One example he makes is; what if the heart were to start thinking it were the most important organ? What if the liver were to decide that it was the most important one and wanted the body to start doing things differently? Or the kidneys? If this were to happen, the body and mind would die very quickly. In other words, the body only works well when all organs operate in harmony with one another – just as all people and countries on the Earth should to in order to ensure harmony and health.

Maybe most importantly, because these start to offer actual solutions for achieving harmony among all people, are his observations that human behavior is totally subjective to one’s environment and not upon one universal value system. For example, if a child is raised as a Hindu, they will have a very different value system than a child who is raised as a Christian in the US – and both children would see the world quite different from a child raised as a Muslim in the Middle East. What is considered “right and normal” for you is true for you for the reason that you were raised in that particular value system. This is how a few men felt very justified in flying airplanes into buildings and how Bush and some Americans felt justified in exacting revenge for such an act – even if it was disguised as “self defense”. Politicians, through the manipulation of the media and the colorization of facts, constantly capitalize on their own domestic value system in order to maintain power and wealth. Unfortunately, many times they don’t even realize they are doing it.

Luckyly it is possible to change one’s value system despite the strong manipulation of the politicians and religious leaders. This is exactly what is taught by Rael at the Raelian Seminars as well as in his peripheral writings. Two particularly great books for this are Sensual Meditation and The Maitreya, both of which are available on www.rael.org)

We send our warmest congrats and thanks to Jacques Fresco for an extraordinary life...a life dedicated to all people on Earth. :-)



"

[raelianews.org]

and

[webcache.googleusercontent.com]

More on the award to Fresco here

[wakeup2010.blogspot.com]

Topics on the Raelians at Ross Institute Archives

[www.culteducation.com]

and the context in which ZM is grouped with other elements of conspiracy mileu

[awakeningvideos.blogspot.com]

Quote
VTV

Quote
DavidWish
VTV,

I am going to be totally straight with you. I addressed everything. I can assure you that no rational mind agrees with you. They messed you up. I'm sorry. I can't help you.

David, I posed the exact same argument that Mr. Ross suggested I pose to you. And that is thus:

This forum has anonymous moderators. Meaning this ANTI-CULT forum.

Your entire argument was based on the premise that groups that have anonymous moderation are cults. So by that logic, this ANTI-CULT forum is part of a cult, and therefore, Rick Ross is a cult leader by your estimation.

Rick Ross's financial records are not posted anywhere on this website either. (He also said given the situation it would not be anyone's business.)

You are now trying a debate tactic of just implying I am crazy, but you have yet to answer for the huge gaping holes in your logic.

There are forums all over the internet that use anonymous moderation. This is a huge stretch on your part.

He also asked me to have you define ABUSE. And you being told you cannot participate on an internet forum is not abuse. So unless someone from TZM has molested you, assaulted you, etc you are just further proving my theories that your trying to turn this positive forum that works to expose real cults to your own agenda. And that is sad.

My view is that you are putting the horse before the carriage here. I agree with Rick’s comments. Somehow, you and I have managed to derive completely different views of his communication with you.

Quote
VTV

“This forum has anonymous moderators. Meaning this ANTI-CULT forum.”

This is another disingenuous statement. There is a big difference between this forum and TZM forum. Anyone can post here, without taking a test, and is open to all, whether or not they can grasp and remember everything that is taught on the linked pages. Each person is helped and supported based on who they are and their own abilities. This is not the case with TZM. Only those that are intellectually able to pass the test can even post on TZM board. It seems like those of lesser brain power or possibly mentally disabled have no place in your group. You are going to have a tough time convincing the parents of the disabled that the disabled should have no say so in anything and that it is all for the best.

By the time I had posted the cult thread on TZM forum, I had already come across the frustration of others on the Internet in regard to the removal and silencing of information on the TZM forum. It was clear to me that, from just brief reading, that people were upset and that there was a lack of transparency at the key times it was required. As a result, these people were upset. I call callously upsetting others, “abuse”. Whether it is intentional or not, it needs to stop. However, my post was deleted when it was proven that those in the position of anonymous direction (power) were out of line with deception, control, and self-righteousness.

Although there maybe anonymous moderators here, I have yet to see a thread removed after someone pointed out that this site is cultist. Your comparison and assessment is flawed at its roots. Furthermore, this site supports the free thinking of others and supports others to come to their own logical conclusions with education about how sometimes people fall in to situations where they let other people control them AND how we all can be abusive and controlling. It is about how to identify these flaws in ourselves and others. I am not in anyway a perfect individual. Even if I ever wanted to lead people, something I do not what I want, I understand now, after spending some time reading here, that others (plural) with a proper education in directing others should always be involved in leading and directing others. This site is not a one man show. It is the collective effort of many people that have seen the damage of abusive controlling groups. I can see why you asked Rick those questions. And again, I agree with his answers. He left it for you, if you so wanted, to distort his words with your own agenda. That you did, too.

Quote
VTV
Your entire argument was based on the premise that groups that have anonymous moderation are cults. So by that logic, this ANTI-CULT forum is part of a cult, and therefore, Rick Ross is a cult leader by your estimation.” is now proven wrong and misleading, just like an abusive cult distort information for cult gain.


Rick Ross's financial records are not posted anywhere on this website either. (He also said given the situation it would not be anyone's business.)

Rick does not have a movement here. Your attempt to place TZM and Rick Ross as being one and same, with “situations”, is erroneous at best. Again, I agree with Rick’s words. TZM and Rick have little in common. You are not going to find a bunch of professionals anywhere that are going to say Rick is leading a cult. Not currently, with the way things are, anyway. Yet, the Internet is flooded with cultist accusations about TZM. This is when transparency is important. When being confronted with cultist abuse, a cult will typically remove the offending words. I didn’t see Rick deleting your post. Yet, TZM did delete its own anonymous moderator’s post that was proven deceptive and misleading, concerning cultist abuse.

Quote
VTV
He also asked me to have you define ABUSE. And you being told you cannot participate on an internet forum is not abuse.”

Okay, no problem.

If someone is running around with a blindfold on and poking people gently with a stick and not hurting anyone, is that abuse? What if the person pokes someone in a wound that they were unaware of and actually cause that person pain? Would you not say that the person’s actions were abusive? Sure, I feel in my situation, I was abused, through the anonymous direction, controlling dialogue, and deletion of the additional facts supporting my view point.

I feel those in TZM are being more abused than I, by TZM deleting a post which clearly showed that people were acting incorrectly in a position of anonymous power and direction.

TZM moderators did something wrong and instead of apologizing, they chose to hide and delete information about their own personal wrong doing. That is cultist abuse!!!

Do they really think that a goal justifies wrong doing?

It is not like this was yesterday either. TZM has time to rethink their position and restore the complete post, my account, and apologize. Instead, we watch as TZM hopelessly tries to preach to us that the end justifies the means, which is just another cultist red flag.

I saw your definitions of a cult. I have also read about cults. The difference between you and I is that I have seen first hand what happens to people when they get involved in groups with abusive cultist red flags. It is terrible situation. Entire lives are destroyed. People die, commit suicide, children spend years trying to relearn and suffering, saving are lost, time is lost and wasted, families are destroyed, pain and suffering abound.

TZM has responded “childish” on a number of occasions. You chose to say that I have huge gapping holes in my logic. Well, we disagree. I understand you talk TZM all the time and the ego hit on you must be profound to support a group that abuses others, hides the truth and misleads others. That is something that professional therapy can probably help. I did not say you were crazy. You are just lacking the understanding of the dangers of abusive cults and how to avoid them. I see no reason why you cannot eventually understand with a better education in this area.

If I see a child walking into a busy street I will yell and be authoritarian. Short of that similar situation, I have learned that flexibility is a proper way to communicate. In the case of the deleted post I will not be flexible. The situation is one of concern for the well being of others. I have seen the damage first hand and it is profound. There is a proper way to cross the street and if a group, TZM in this case, is directing others anonymously and incorrectly, I will protest the wrong. This is not 1939. We have better educational material regarding cultist abuse, experience in dealing with cultist abuse, and the desire to protect our loved ones from being controlled and abused.

You have no idea what I have seen in the abuse of others in abusive cultist environments. Perhaps I have difficulty in conveying that to you. I can tell that I have spent years talking with people what were in cults and seen first hand the damage they cause to self-esteem, creativity, free though and expression and the basic trampling of the human spirit. The effects are devastating and in many cases, cause long lasting injuries.

The bullshit stops here.
1. Restore the deleted post showing anonymous direction being deceptive.
2. Apologize, with a detailed explanation, the wrong doing.
3. Make the necessary corrections for all members to be “inoculated” from an abusive cultist environment within TZM.

Fail to do so and TZM will continue to be an abusive cult.

I see this conversation is not exactly proving to be a reflection of any sort of objective study. These are the points that Mr. Ross asked me to make.

1. Having anonymous moderators does not make an organization a cult.

2. Define any actual abuse taking place. Denying someone access to a web forum does not count.

3. This forum itself has anonymous moderators.

What I see here is an attempt to hijack this forum's resources for the purposes of pursuing a petty agenda. No real evidence of any abuse has been offered. I can google search "The Zeitgeist Movement is NOT a cult" and get dozens of articles that contradict everything your saying here. This is quickly becoming pointless.

As a factual note to others reading this thread, there were events that occurred before my posting of the deleted thread in TZM forum.


After watching their movie I did a bit of searching online. I came across several articles. The list was quite large. I had much to look through. I spent a few hours looking around and noticed that some people were involved in a distributed computing project BOINC.

Here is a link to that page:
[www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]

Here is what is there:
Help us by joining our ‘The Zeitgeist Movement’ team now!

The Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing (BOINC) is a volunteer grid computing system that uses your computer to solve problems. There are different projects on the network currently in development, such as ‘distributedDataMining’ which is a future project that will help research machine learning, which can help us in forming a resource based economy.

By downloading BOINC and attaching to the project aqua@home we can speed up research in quantum computing. If large-scale quantum computers can be built, they will be able to solve problems much faster than any current computers. This will help in improving the central computer of the cybernated city systems and computers generally.

We hope to get as many of the half a million members using their computers to help speed up research in this project. We want to produce the largest team with the most credit which will help gain recognition in the scientific research community and help us to become a highly respected organization. We hope to be able to build a relationship with D-Wave Systems, the company behind this project, so that they can help us build the central computer of the cybernated city systems when the time comes to build the first city. It only takes 20 minutes to install and set up.

Download BOINC

Alternate Download

Once installed, attach to the project aqua@home, then join The Zeitgeist Movements Team on aqua@home (Note you must be logged in on their website to join the team)


If you need help installing BOINC, and how to join the team, follow these instructions

You can add more than one computer to your member account.

We have a goal of having 25,000 active members on the team as this will allow us to rival some of the most powerful supercomputers in the world, this will help us gain recognition in the mainstream media! So please post this project message on your local chapters, Facebook pages, encourage your friends, family, co-workers to join the team and help us become respected in the scientific community and to create the number one team for aqua@home!

[GOT A QUESTION? VISIT OUR PROJECT FAQ HERE]

Thank you for your work.

Zeitgeist Technology Team

P.S. I (Douglas Mallette) am running this right now on my computer and it does not bog down my system. Also, you could just run it at night while sleeping, so you can help advance us into the future while you dream! :)

A list of scientific papers on AQUA
[aqua.dwavesys.com]

A white paper on AQUA for information about the science of AQUA's application
[aqua.dwavesys.com]

Any logical person would have to derive that TZM should not be making money, based on their teachings of a RBE (Recourse Based Economy).

I read up a little bit on what it was they were trying to solve with all of this CPU time, and it is quite impressive when you add it all up. They have quite a few people donating CPU time to solving the math revolving around doing quantum calculations on physical equipment. It goes something like this: For all you read everywhere about the quantum world, it is basically magic to us at this point in our understanding of the universe. We can make things that appear to violate the laws of physics and witness others. Super conductive magnets, perfect fluids, the lack of wear at the atomic level, black holes, etc., come to mind. Who knows what is really possible at the extremes of our existence? Hot and cold, fast and slow, big and small are examples. I read in a magazine, about ten to twelve years ago, where some scientists were theorizing that with one thousand controlled sub-atomic particles, it should be possible to factor a number 10 to the 80 power, almost instantly, with quantum computing. That is a number larger than the count of atoms in the known universe. It is amazing science. The take I got from what I read is that some MIT physics had discovered some math, around 2002, that stated that if you use any sort of physical equipment, certain laws of physics still apply to the total calculation, as it is being preformed on physical equipment. Something along those lines anyway is what I got from it.

After setting it up on a couple of machines and seeing the process, I had provided some CPU time to cancer research project in the past, I came to see additional information I was unaware of. There were a lot of pages open. I was trying to do IRC, without setting up a client, and their web interface did not appear to work. Possible red flag right there. There did not seem to be any help anywhere. Possible red flag right there, again. So as I searched, I kept coming across forum posts and blog posts everywhere. I read quotes where TZM members were calling each other names, etc., and I took notice. Another red flag. This was not something I would expect from a group stating we are all the result of our environment. It seemed hypocritical to me. It just did not smell right. Eventually, I ran across this post on the Internet:

[www.nytimes.com]

You see, in the article is says D-Wave is trying to do business with Google and some of the creators of the code project aqua@home for distributed computing, apparently are, not providing the link here sorry, work for D-Wave company.

I am not saying all business with Google is evil, just that it seemed hypocritical for a group talking about getting rid of money, to be supporting a project with clear monetary gains. It was certainly a red flag to me. It was actually important enough to me, with my amateur hobby in the quantum world, to be concerned about what might be discovered and where that discovery might go. So I posted this:

[aqua.dwavesys.com]

Please note the spelling corrections below it, which I am going to insert here, for simplicity of review.

From the thread:
I have been learning about The Zeitgeist Movement (TMZ)

Something I read today on these boards concerns me. I understand these calculations are suppose to further science to help us all, but there seems to be an issue at hand that I would appreciate someone with understanding to explain.

On this thread:
[aqua.dwavesys.com]

----------------------------------------------------------
QUIBIT CHIP Four quibits are symmetrically coupled via a capacitive island, the cross in the center.
By JOHN MARKOFF
Published: November 8, 2010
New York Times

...

•Google has received a proposal from D-Wave and NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory to develop a quantum computing facility for Google next year based on D-Wave technology.
----------------------------------------------------

Google is a company that is monetarily motivated and I see a problem with supplying a company with vast financial resources, mathematical solutions to complex problems, which, possibly, can only be utilized by those with the resourced for the materials and labor to construct such computing systems.

It seems to me that it is just like the nuclear bombs. Everyone knows the sciences, but only those with the resources can take advantage of the knowledge.

So I politely ask, "How is giving our CPU time to Google really of benefit?"
Furthermore, "Isn't this akin to sending out messages into space, oblivious of the possible chance that all exterrestrial life, that may be able to receive it, is friendly?"
Thank you,

Dave

ID: 10454


This message was never replied to. As a result, I removed the software from my systems.

By this point, I had found TZM forum and had read many arguments between members. I realized that communication was difficult and I was not a happy camper to be tested before joining. I simply wanted answers to the BOINC aqua@home project.

Once I finally managed to past the test, I had already read countless reports of that “the test is fixed” and that you just need to keep answering it again and again. Many different pages appeared to report that the test was fixed. That even if you answered everything perfectly, you would still be denied. I have no proof either way, but it was a red flag to me to see that there were questions about this that the general public had and I did not see any TZM proof that this was not actually the case. They seemed to read right over the objections of many claiming dishonesty, and did not handle it properly, to my satisfaction, anywhere that I had read about it. It certainly seemed to me that others were experiencing frustration with a lack of transparency in regard questions being asked. Again, if you are secret group and it is part of your way to be that way, that is one matter. If you are calling for something, as in TZM case, of transparency, you better walk the talk or I will red flag you to myself.


So now I have experienced several undesirable situations with TZM. Yet, I realized we have faults and wanted to know more. I was now a member of their forum and could search through articles and respond. I saw a forum article on whether or not the vegan/vegetarian life style was supported and/or encouraged on their forum and I posted there.


[www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]

I posted several quotes from famous people about the subject. Myself, I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian for about 30 years. Just like someone who believes in having a gun to keep the government in check, I have my personal choices that I wanted to see how TZM would handle. And not unlike one of the previous posters on this thread, I was not happy about the response I received. In his case, he stated what is the actually process to remove all the guns? What happens when those in control, even if they are decent people, die? They were excellent questions. As much as dreaming is nice, at some point your suggestions for the future must be workable in real life or you are talking out of your ass. Just like that, I posted some quotes. It may seem strange to you all, but even after about 30 years of vegetarian life, I was unaware of all or almost all of those quotes.

The first one was of concern the most regarding TZM. TZM preaches “the scientific method”.

My quote was this,
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. - Albert Einstein

I did not see a single response to the fact that one of the most scientific minds, ever, in the history of the world, agreed with the idea and that further discussion of what his science on it was in order. They responded to the thread with indifference and ignored a known scientific person’s view on it.

This was not a quote from just anyone. What he says here is something he voices as, “other than his own opinion”. He states it as a fact. It seems important to me if I am advocating science as the medium to progress. He say’s that “nothing is more important for the survival of the human race”.

Those are very big words from one of the greatest scientific minds ever. It warrants proper review in an environment of any group truly concerned about scientific method.

This was a lot more than three strikes for me with TZM. It was clear at this point, to me, that TZM was a cult. Others have come to their conclusions in their own ways and from what I have read, make excellent points too.

When I posted my findings on their board, TMZ = Cult, they responded with deception and deletion of relevant information.

I do not need more than this to see the light. I am fortunate I was able to come here and vent and discuss it further. It certainly is not an option over there. Oh, btw, you can send the staff email, for media enquiries only. There is not a publicly posted objection box, accountability, answers to certain question, and most importantly, an acknowledgment of the dangers of abusive cultist ways that they are deploying. Given their count, it is a lot of pain for a lot of people. I hope it doesn’t get worse.

Greetings. I would just like to start with a few obvious things. First off, TZM absolutely is a cult. It is a cult by every single major evaluation criteria as I have detailed here.

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It is in fact a cult because it promotes and advocates violence. It is a cult because it uses fascistic diabolozation and scape goating of literally all other social movements, all religions, all governments, and all business.
It is a cult because Neil who is now posting here uses an ad hominem double standard and rabidly attacks people on the forums in order to bully and intimidate them as the primary form
of social control. It is a cult because it shares 50 axioms with armageddon theology and another 50 with out right satanism and another 50 with outright anarchism and another 50 with outright satanism.

It is a cult, it is an abusive, fascist, totalitarian, satanic cult, and it is a violent, evil, socially reprehensible cult. It is absolutely a cult, and nothing that neil can say can change these facts.

But if you really want to understand him, or to see the truth of the matter, ask neil why he deleted over a dozen threads about me, and ask him why I was banned from his forum.

You see, I tried to help them. I tried to fish them out of their cultness. I had threads up about brainwaves and sleepwalking in the nicest possible simple factual way. But neil attacked me, attacked my factual information
and called it crazy, hit me with 20 or 30 ad hominems, and when i wouldn't roll over he banned me.

Its really quite an interesting story, one which proves that he is a liar, a con artist, and a fraud.

You can look and see for yourself my own copy of the materials which he deleted either on Facebook or on my wiki.

The wiki will be coming down soon but all of the materials are up there and i have yet to transfer them all to FB.

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On behalf of my gay and lesbian brothers and sisters, here is a google search for homosexuality and Zeitgeist Movement

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Here is ZM's statement regarding sexuality and 'deviancy'--its all a matter of environment and deviancy (who gets to define devianacy--heh???) can be eradicated through social design.

This does not sound reassuring.

"[www.tzmnystate.com]

What is your take regarding Sexuality?
We view the facts of sex are as follows: If children are raised in an environment where nude swimming is the norm, then their sexual attitudes and behaviors will evolve differently than in situations where their bodies are always covered and hidden. Aberrant sexual behavior and fetishes would probably disappear in cultures where unclothed bodies are regarded as natural. Deviant sexual behaviors like Peeping Toms, selling nudity in magazines, exhibitionism, and similar activities are mostly generated in societies where sex is covert and people are deprived about it. Unfortunately, much religious training seeks to perpetuate conventional sexual attitudes with particular emphasis on feelings of guilt. Societies, which accept unscientific values and beliefs about sex, are bound to generate unhealthy deviations involving cruelty, sadism, etc.

Sexual attitudes and behaviors in a saner society will evolve very differently from conventional societies today. We think nudity will become more commonplace on beaches, parks, and elsewhere, and that this will, in fact, become the norm in the future. Non-judgmental attitudes about sexual preference will eventually prevail. Sex in the culture will lack inhibition, thus reducing the interest in dancing girls, enticing displays, sexual extravagance, etc. Sexual distortions and abnormalities result from judgmental religious concepts regarding nudity and sexual preference.

Jacque Fresco, founder of The Venus Project, once lived on a Polynesian island in the South Pacific where the natives wore no clothing. This was associated with a completely different value system concerning sex and nudity. They did not behave like people do in a sexually deprived culture. The males didn't stare at the female body, but rather looked into their eyes when speaking to them. During sex they stroked the entire body. When you pet a dog you don’t stop at the balls--you stroke the entire dog. They were uninterested in photos of nudes, male or female. They didn’t brag about sexual conquests or emphasize their sexual behavior, and it appeared to be as natural as any other activity among them. They engaged in sex when they were old enough to do so and did so without cruelty or fetishes. Those distortions mostly occur in modern “civilization” where deprivation and sexual morality are dominant.

The Venus Project feels that sexual preferences are byproducts of a person’s experiences and we make no judgments regarding those preferences. Our aim is to find out what conditions are responsible for deviant behavior in all aspects of society and then to scientifically design an environment that will evolve the best in human values and relationships.

A better social design in a resource-based economy will evolve productive and cooperative "

Venus Project claims to make no judgements abuot 'sexual preferences'--then the mission statement goes on to inform us that 'our aim is to find otu what conditions are responsible for deviant behavior in all aspects of society'--immediately following the comment about 'sexual preference'.

This is based on obsolete understanding of sexual biology.

A couple of longer answers to FAQs on the ZM new york chapter list

Look at the list of questions and shudder.

[www.thevenusproject.com]

84.For reasons best known to geneticists, some people inherit different colored eyes from those of other people around them. In a grand overall vision of social and economic reform such as The Venus Project, what about those few who will always exhibit aberrant behavior under any system?
You must remember that Jacque has been at this almost all of his life, and so have I for the last 33 years. He encountered these questions early in his youth. That's why he joined the KKK and the White Citizen's Council and worked on ways of turning them around. He was successful at this. If genetics were a fixed part of human nature, then behavior could not be altered. He also worked with "juvenile delinquents" who were called some of the worst kids in NY, and changed them into constructive citizens who still call him today. He also worked with drug addicts and alcoholics who, in turn, worked with other groups to alter their behavior in a positive way using his methods. He had motorcycle gangs and members of the Nazi party come to his lectures and he changed all of these people. There are processes that work with different kinds of people.

Fresco has developed precise incremental steps for altering human behavior. Genetics determines the function and replication of internal organs, the color of the eyes, a propensity toward certain physical disorders, etc., but has nothing whatever to do with values, bigotry, prejudice, or other learned behaviors. Genetics does not make a person mean, selfish, self-centered, or greedy. If genetics endowed humans with preset behaviors, then people would be unalterable.

Animals seem to possess inherited patterns of behavior such as nest building, defending their young, and feeding their offspring, but most of this behavior is based on imprinting and internal body chemistry. Animals with large adrenal glands and a large brain will tend to perpetuate those characteristics in their offspring. Bull dogs of several hundred years ago were very ferocious, which was thought to be inborn. Since then, most of that has been bred out of them by reducing the size of their adrenal glands, which lessened the violence of the animals. It was not the case that the violence was inherited, but rather that the size of the adrenal gland caused the aggressive behavior that characterized the species.

Fresco is interested in ascertaining the precise mechanisms responsible for behavior.

Geneticists can invent a word like genes, and yet still leave out all the details responsible for behavioral variations. Some imply that through the protoplasmic bridge, acquired behavioral patterns are inherited, thus making genes a scapegoat for the real determinants. It is difficult to go into this if you haven't read the books Jacque gave you such as Brain and Mind, Mind in the Making, and books on Semantics. In the absence of a serious familiarity with these books, it is nearly impossible to do justice to this type of information.

In essence, Jacque is concerned with the precise mechanisms that impart values and determine behavior, and he rejects terms like instinct, human nature, and inheritance across a protoplasmic bridge. These do not describe a precise process. If we used only names and neglected processes, we could not make progress in science. We could not build bridges, make telephones, design computers, etc. It would just be an intellectual hobby in linguistics. This inadequate process would not suffice for designing a more positive future.

Linguistic and intellectual engagement has been used by many philosophers and intellectuals who saw that process of evaluation as constituting advanced and deep thinking. From Fresco's point of view, their writings look like the musings of artists who dream that someday people will develop ways of reaching the heavens, but who don't provide any information for attaining those ends. It is the work of people who develop precise methodologies for accomplishing these ends that can translate them into reality. Most people are engaged in a jungle of linguistic abstractions with little or no precise insight into cause and effect or methodology. This, for Fresco, was never an acceptable way of accomplishing anything.

85.Do you advocate killing people with aberrant behavior?
By "mentally unstable" or "aberrant people" do you mean those of GE who are some of the biggest polluters of the environment and knowingly exposed their workers to carcinogens that caused their deaths, or those that manipulate money for profit without contributing to the well being of people's lives, or those who lend money for an automobile for example and if the person cannot pay off the last payment they do not take a tire and the steering wheel equivalent to the payment, they take the whole car? Or perhaps you may mean judges who put people in jail for life for killing over resources, yet the leaders of nations bomb and kill entire cities and countries for resources and to secure markets and then put statues in parks to honor the ones who carry out this procedure?

There would have to be an awful lot of killing going on if a saner society wanted to rid itself of "unstable" or "aberrant" behavior. No, we do not advocate killing anyone. We think that this system is like a cancer on a cat that is eating its host and it will do away with itself in time. The mere march of events of technology will eventually do away with jobs that enable people to buy the goods turned out, and new social designs will have to emerge. We feel that at that time a military dictatorship will most likely occur. We would like to introduce the concepts of a resource-based economy to the public so they will understand that there are other possible alternatives.

However on this discussion the participants are trying to say that ZM TVP isnt discussing homosexuality when they refer to sexual preference.

Well, this still does not answer the question who in this ideal futurist society defines 'deviant behavior'.

Two every discussion I have ever read or been party to in which sexual preference has been referred to as been a discussion of homosexuality.

And the fact remains that some patterns of sexual behavior are not 'preference' but are orientation and are biologically based.

I have known many who tried and tried to turn themselves heterosexual and eventually faced they were homosexual.

And..let us look at the reported experiences and arduous journeys of those who are transexual.

Again Jose Fresco's analysis and diagnosis of human sexuality is based on obsolete theories.